Vietnam premier wants to finish privatizing 289 state-run firms by 2015

[ChineseTiger1986]

Most likely the main issue will be that they don't give them away to their cronies like it happened in Russia. I could say more about this subject, but since I live in Vietnam, I don't want to get the police at my door and get deported, so I better shut up for now.

The total net worth of USSR's SOE was about 28 trillion dollar, and it got all looted by the US.

Otherwise, Russia would grow stronger than the US with a Chinese style reform.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Well, many of our carmakers are already private, what you are talking about?

Ever heard of Geely? But it didn't perform well as expected, which is also true.

Well, if you red very well the article from IBtimes posted, then you will know why POEcar makers like great wall, geely , BYD have not been able to dominate their home countries. Its mainly due to blood sucking SOE who have been acting as a front for Foreign car makers. And they are more favoured financially/srrategically by the government, they also can afford not to spend any one penny on R&D Unlike your POE car makers.
In short, if your CCP insists on favouring its SOE car makers alias foreign brand OEM then believe me foreign car makers will dominate your country forever.
Just like Einstein said: try something new if the other has been a failure.

I totally agree. Vietnam tried to copy the system in place in China, but the corruption and incompetence is just too extreme anmaintaun the way. It has the liabilities of the chinese system, but none of the strengths of it.

Don't get me wrong, there are a few SOEs that are good like Viettel, owned by the military (telecommunications company and defense equipment maker), those are not going to be sold by any means.

The reform needed in Vietnam is very significant, it will be a long way to go, if they can ever make it to that point.



Yes, that's the only way.

I think what Vietnam is doing is better than just pretending everything is OK. Just privatise and try to reform those blood sucking SOE that have been a total failure. While maintaining the ones that have been well run/who are of strategic interests to the country. Nothing wrong in that.

 

[Carlosa]

I think what Vietnam is doing is better than just pretending everything is OK. Just privatise and try to reform those blood sucking SOE that have been a total failure. While maintaining the ones that have been well run/who are of strategic interests to the country. Nothing wrong in that.

That's exactly what they are trying to do. Everybody here knows what's going on with the SOEs, there is no other solution.

Just to give an example of how many SOEs were working; their leaders get appointed by the higher ups (their cronies), the SOEs were not required to even publish their business results or accounting, no transparency or disclosure at all. Its like a kid in the candy store, so what can you expect? Everybody steals, they keep taking loans, then more loans to cover the losses until they can't hide things anymore, then the thing comes into the open, somebody gets arrested, maybe executed, but the deed is already done and the debt is very real. That's how many SOEs were managed in Vietnam. Do I need to say anything else?

The total net worth of USSR's SOE was about 28 trillion dollar, and it got all looted by the US.

Otherwise, Russia would grow stronger than the US with a Chinese style reform.

Russia is coming back, it will take some time, but nothing can stop Putin and the Russian people, no chance of color revolution there. They know where they stand.

The Russian economy started to grow again, foreign reserves are growing again, the Ruble is now at 50 from an average of 62-63. The economic attack didn't work, they are actually going to come out stronger from all that and they are not going to forget either.

 

[AndrewJin]

That's exactly what they are trying to do. Everybody here knows what's going on with the SOEs, there is no other solution.

Just to give an example of how many SOEs were working; their leaders get appointed by the higher ups (their cronies), the SOEs were not required to even publish their business results or accounting, no transparency or disclosure at all. Its like a kid in the candy store, so what can you expect? Everybody steals, they keep taking loans, then more loans to cover the losses until they can't hide things anymore, then the thing comes into the open, somebody gets arrested, maybe executed, but the deed is already done and the debt is very real. That's how many SOEs were managed in Vietnam. Do I need to say anything else?

Now I have some understanding of SOEs in Vietnam. So are reforms of SOE totally ruled out? There are also excellent SOEs in China, after reforms of SOE, like Haier(white goods) and Golden Dragon(bus manufacturer).

 

[Carlosa]

Well, the US wanna control your strategic SOE, so that's the only way to truly control your economy.

So beware of that..

Actually, the vietnamese leadership is very mindful of not giving the shop away to US or to be in a position of dependency with USA. Their memories are still alive and well. They can also see what's going on around the world. Only some regrettable circumstances are pushing them into USA's arms, but only so much. They are actually trying to be in a balanced position as much as possible and trying to avoid having to take sides.

Now I have some understanding of SOEs in Vietnam. So are reforms of SOE totally ruled out? There are also excellent SOEs in China, after reforms of SOE, like Haier(white goods) and Golden Dragon(bus manufacturer).

There are good and bad SOEs, but the bad ones are so bad that can reck the whole house man, need to get rid of them. Just think, 69 billion usd in debt, that's going to take some time to pay.

In many cases the reforms have to be done by new owners, no chance that the state can reform them.

 

[AndrewJin]

Actually, the vietnamese leadership is very mindful of not giving the shop away to US or to be in a position of dependency with USA. Their memories are still alive and well. They can also see what's going on around the world. Only some regrettable circumstances are pushing them into USA's arms, but only so much. They are actually trying to be in a balanced position as much as possible and trying to avoid having to take sides.



There are good and bad SOEs, but the bad ones are so bad that can reck the whole house man, need to get rid of them. Just think, 69 billion usd in debt, that's going to take some time to pay.

In many cases the reforms have to be done by new owners, no chance that the state can reform them.

Then how to avoid blood-sucking private companies which steal money and then run away? Why not try some reforms first?

 

[Carlosa]

Then how to avoid blood-sucking private companies which steal money and then run away? Why not try some reforms first?

Sometimes reforms take a lot of money, you need to invest a lot in order to reverse the situation; Vietnam doesn't have that money. Only private investors can do it.

Those SOEs are so bad that the state needs to do whatever it takes to reverse the situation, otherwise the hole keeps getting bigger. Not an easy solution and anyway, the state is not known for their ability to manage. The cases where it doesn't take too much effort to reverse the situation or were the losses are small, the solution might just be selling a percentage of the shares, just enough to get new blood to properly manage the company.

We'll see, each case is different, but the key point to consider is that Vietnam has very limited financial ability and it takes money, very serious money to fix many of the bad ones.

 

[mike2000 is back]

That's exactly what they are trying to do. Everybody here knows what's going on with the SOEs, there is no other solution.

Just to give an example of how many SOEs were working; their leaders get appointed by the higher ups (their cronies), the SOEs were not required to even publish their business results or accounting, no transparency or disclosure at all. Its like a kid in the candy store, so what can you expect? Everybody steals, they keep taking loans, then more loans to cover the losses until they can't hide things anymore, then the thing comes into the open, somebody gets arrested, maybe executed, but the deed is already done and the debt is very real. That's how many SOEs were managed in Vietnam. Do I need to say anything else?.

Exactly bro, thats why I said even if I was the one in the same position as those SOE leaders/managers I will be tempted to do the same. Imagine running a company where you know the government will keep pumping money/loans to you and you don't have to give account of how you spend your money nor do you have to worry about spending on some stupid R&D (money you can embezzle into your private account and send your kids to the best uni in the west.lol) . the temptation is simply too strong, 8 out of 10 individual will do the most obvious thing(I.e embezzle ) giving such a situation. Money/loans, no accountability, no transparency, no shareholders to answer to etc. What a dangerous mix. Vietnam should privatise/sell off/reform all such blood sucking beasts which has been ruining the country and depriving it of much needed resources which could have been used in other more productive sectors. In case of reforms as you said, Vietnam doesn't seem to have enough financial resources to turn back these inefficient SOE into profitable/efficient companies, so the only solution is to privatise them. Though Vietnam should learn from those of its other SOE that have been quite good like viettel. So they can find out what they did right.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

Exactly bro, thats why I said even if I was the one in the same position as those SOE leaders/managers I will be tempted to do the same. Imagine running a company where you know the government will keep pumping money/loans to you and you don't have to give account of how you spend your money nor do you have to worry about spending on some stupid R&D (money you can embezzle into your private account and send your kids to the best uni in the west.lol) . the temptation is simply too strong, 8 out of 10 individual will do the most obvious thing(I.e embezzle ) giving such a situation. Money/loans, no accountability, transparency, shareholders to answer to etc. What a dangerous mix. Vietnam should privatise/sell off/reform all such blood sucking beasts which has been ruining the country and depriving it of much needed resources which could have been used in other more productive sectors.

The idea that privatization can solve embezzlement problem is a myth. When company go private, the managers will give themselves large bonus, nevermind the companies go bankrupt. In every situation managers get to keep their bonuses.

The white man now fall hard is because private companies especially the TBTF banks hijack and bought the entire government, keep gambling non stop, cooking books, and making scam.

The manages keep all their bonuses by showing sham profits, until a day when things blow up. Then the elites fooled the people claiming that they must save the deadbeat gambling addict elites else everything go to shit.

If USA cannot rein their private sector greed, it will break apart in 50 years.

Meanwhile, China will still be there if she manage to control the greed of her elites.

...

 

[mike2000 is back]

The idea that privatization can solve embezzlement problem is a myth. When company go private, the managers will give themselves large bonus, nevermind the companies go bankrupt. In every situation managers get to keep their bonuses.

The white man now fall hard is because private companies especially the TBTF banks hijack and bought the entire government, keep gambling non stop, cooking books, and making scam.

The manages keep all their bonuses by showing sham profits, until a day when things blow up. Then the elites fooled the people claiming that they must save the deadbeat gambling addict elites else everything go to shit.

If USA cannot rein their private sector greed, it will break apart in 50 years.

Meanwhile, China will still be there if she manage to control the greed of her elites.

Lool lmao. U.S will break apart in 50 years? Nice 1, first time I heard that. Lool

Private Companies in general have been proven to performed farrrr better than SOE overall. The best U.S tech companies are all privately owned/run and they dominate the world market (including the China market). Qualcomm, Intel, apple,Rolls-royce, Google,Microsoft, IBM, Cisco,caterpillar, mistubishi , Toyota, etc etc there are countless private companies who are world dominant, but very few state owned/run companies can be said to be world leaders/innovative. Many U.S, German,western, Japanese world beating conglomerates are all private owned/run or family owned businesses not state owned. Private companies have proven to be more innovative, efficient and better run than SOE. They have more incentives to since their survival depends on it, else they will perish, same can't be said about SOE since NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO THEY WILL STILL KEEP RUNNING,hence they have less incentives/reason to bother with R&D. Giving a level playing field and equal amount of government support, POE will outshine SOE any day, this can be seen with Huawei who spends heavily on R&D to remain ahead of its competitors and is a world renowned company. Same can't be said of state run companies.

Its private companies that make the U.S what it is today, SOE are way behind. Private companies of course are not perfect as some also fail, but overall they are way efficient than SOE all things being equal. U.S and U.S.S.R is a testimony of this. As for your statement about the U.S breaking apart while 'mighty' China standing up. LMAO , China has a better chance of breaking apart than the U.S Hong kongers are still longing for the days of our imperial rule over them (remember? Lool), Tibet/Xinjiang are restless, Taiwan is still relying on U.S to maintain its independence fro the mainland. What the hell I'm I doing talking about this? everybody knows the statement you made is rather funny, so won't waste time on this. There are other more valuable things we can discuss.

 

[Nike]

Not at all. There is selected state own companies list, where the govt no need to keep this in hands.

the article is clearly stated your PM want to privatize most of your SOE including the most profitable ones like your telecommunication company

 

[Jlaw]

those big private companies are becoming very innovative and competitive in world stage, it is because they have to deal with government monopoly and stupid polices````they have to word twice as hard and smart compared to foreign peers in order to become big in China

Private companies have no sense of nationality. If Huawei, Alibaba can find cheaper ways to do business in another part of the world to increase profit they would not hesitate to shut down the Chinese branch and move overseas. How is that good for the Chinese workers?

You know that is what happened to American companies for the past 40 years?

Xi Jinping is merging the big SOE into the mega SOE, but Li Keqiang wants to dismantle the SOE.

Another liberal joker like Wen Jiabao.

BTW, this is in fact a struggle between the left-wing princeling group lead by Xi Jinping and the right-wing princeling group who is behind their puppet Li Keqiang.

Did Xi appoint Li?

The total net worth of USSR's SOE was about 28 trillion dollar, and it got all looted by the US.

Otherwise, Russia would grow stronger than the US with a Chinese style reform.

I have a feeling in twenty years with more POE in China you will begin to see more mass layoffs and China could end up like another Russia. Poor, corrupt and never reached its potential.

Never doubt the Hanjians. They probably outnumber the true patriots in China so it's not hard to recruit them.

 

[Viet]

not all is lost. I recently talked to one of my relatives, who visits vietnam regulary for business.

he told me the wages for professionals have increased a lot in the last two years. almost double.
a experienced banker can earn up $1,000 a month, while engineer about up to $1,500 a month. there is a hot competition between domestic and foreign companies seeking best talents.

@Carlosa and other viet members: is it possible and realistic?

the article is clearly stated your PM want to privatize most of your SOE including the most profitable ones like your telecommunication company

yes, with some few exceptions such as defence industry and media, all are for sale

there are differences how much stakes domestic and foreigner buyers can buy. the initial plan was up to 40% of stakes can be bought. now the government wants to lift this limit to probably 60% or more.

Then how to avoid blood-sucking private companies which steal money and then run away? Why not try some reforms first?

the best reform for state owned companies is a new management. free of corruption, free of political influence. the overseas vietnamese show what we are capable of.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Private companies have no sense of nationality. If Huawei, Alibaba can find cheaper ways to do business in another part of the world to increase profit they would not hesitate to shut down the Chinese branch and move overseas. How is that good for the Chinese workers?

You know that is what happened to American companies for the past 40 years?


Did Xi appoint Li?


I have a feeling in twenty years with more POE in China you will begin to see more mass layoffs and China could end up like another Russia. Poor, corrupt and never reached its potential.

Never doubt the Hanjians. They probably outnumber the true patriots in China so it's not hard to recruit them.

He didn't appoint Li, but he had no choice. Since the beginning, he didn't have much power, so those elite groups were putting their own men into his admin.

So for now, he is trying to fully control the military. So by 2017, he can fully control his admin by appointing all his own men.

Li Keqiang will be sacked by 2017 since Xi Jinping views him as a liability.

 

[Jlaw]

He didn't appoint Li, but he had no choice. Since the beginning, he didn't have much power, so those elite groups were putting their own men into his admin.

So for now, he is trying to fully control the military. So by 2017, he can fully control his admin by appointing all his own men.

Li Keqiang will be sacked by 2017 since Xi Jinping views him as a liability.

I hope so...