Vietnam premier wants to finish privatizing 289 state-run firms by 2015

[AndrewJin]

We don't have any common language with those westerners who were indoctrinated to hate the socialist economy.

Even Putin will strongly disagree with you.

I'm now taking a coach from Buddhist Jiuhua Mountain to the capital of Anhui. I don't have the slightest interest to search whether this 安凯 bus is SOE or POE. It has nothing to do with our national security.

 

[Carlosa]

Even Putin will strongly disagree with you.

I have no issues with Putin or with most Russian SOEs, I only have issues with blood sucking SOEs that are nothing more than an instrument of corruption.

By the way, Russia is buying a 49% stake on the Viet oil company which is a way of providing funds for the expansion of the company, a win win deal.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

No, this is not about liking or disliking a socialist economy. In Europe there is a lot of support for semi socialist policies, its quite a tradition actually, its very different than in USA. You are assuming that I'm for an all out capitalist policy, but I'm actually not.

There is a place for SOEs if properly run and are of benefit to the country. Very few cases as such in Vietnam. 69 billion usd in debt from the vietnamese SOE's, how can you justify that?

The SOEs in Vietnam are a horror story, but you are not familiar with them at all, you are supporting something that you actually don't know much about. You might know about China's SOEs, but not about the ones in Vietnam. Why do you think that the majority of vietnamese support getting rid of them? They are the ones that have to live with them.

Well, this means that VPC has not properly running their SOE.

China's SOE is running like the goose that laying the golden eggs. And with the anti-graft operation, the debt will further decrease.

VPC didn't earn a lot of honor for its people, that's why the Vietnamese people are also not so clinging to its communist party like the people in China.

I have no issues with Putin or with most Russian SOEs, I only have issues with blood sucking SOEs that are nothing more than an instrument of corruption.

By the way, Russia is buying a 49% stake on the Viet oil company which is a way of providing funds for the expansion of the company, a win win deal.

Well, VCP seriously needs to do something tangible to boost their national pride. Otherwise, they will be soon in some serious troubles.

If CPC was weak that couldn't transform China into a powerhouse, then most Chinese people would already overthrow them long time ago.

Same for Russia, so many people are still clinging to the communist superpower USSR. And if USSR was a nobody weakling state, then I don't think it is going to be missed by the majority of the Russian people.

 

[mike2000 is back]

We don't have any common language with those westerners who were indoctrinated to hate the socialist economy.

Even Putin will strongly disagree with you.

Nobody has been indoctrinated to hate socialists economies bro. We are all just having a debate and as always people have different views. If your socialist CCP was really serious, then they will dismantle at least those SOE car makers who have been nothing but a thorn in the flesh for the country and its more innovative POE car makers.
Like Einstein said: insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.

So why not try something new/different. You have nothing to lose (that you are not already losing). Lool

 

[Carlosa]

Well, this means that VPC has not properly running their SOE.

China's SOE is running like the goose that laying the golden eggs. And with the anti-graft operation, the debt will further decrease.

VPC didn't earn a lot of honor for its people, that's why the Vietnamese people are also not so clinging to its communist party like the people in China.

I guess you didn't read what I wrote a few pages ago about Viet SOEs so this is new to you.

Viet SOEs are run by massively corrupted cronies of the Viet elite and VCP. Extremely corrupted people and totally incompetent.

They used most of the available bank credit which they get at low rates and with few questions asked and what did they do with it? They used it to speculate in real state, which created a real state bubble that recked the economy a few years ago (still trying to recuperate from that), that's how they got into a 69 billion usd debt.

The oil company rips off their customers, when oil prices go up, they increase prices right away, then oil prices go down, they either don't reduce them or reduce them only a bit, after a few years of that, Vietnam's gasoline prices are significantly higher than in USA.

The electric company just announced a 7.5% rate increase because they are losing money, but the reason why they lose money is because they speculated in real state and lost their shirt, so now electric customers have to pay for that.

And lets not even talk about Vinashin, the state owned ship builder that declared bankrupcy because of corruption and mismanagement.

Why would the state need to own a milk making company (Vinamilk)? Nothing strategic about that.

The SOEs that are well run or are strategic are not being sold or only sell a minority share.

What they are selling is the cancers.

Do you get the picture now? I have nothing at all against SOEs as a matter of principle.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Nobody has been indoctrinated to hate socialists economies bro. We are all just having a debate and as always people have different views. If your socialist CCP was really serious, then they will dismantle at least those SOE car makers who have been nothing but a thorn in the flesh for the country and its more innovative POE car makers.
Like Einstein said: insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.

So why not try something new/different. You have nothing to lose (that you are not already losing). Lool

Well, many of our carmakers are already private, what you are talking about?

Ever heard of Geely? But it didn't perform well as expected, which is also true.

 

[Carlosa]

Well, this means that VPC has not properly running their SOE.

China's SOE is running like the goose that laying the golden eggs. And with the anti-graft operation, the debt will further decrease.

VPC didn't earn a lot of honor for its people, that's why the Vietnamese people are also not so clinging to its communist party like the people in China.



Well, VCP seriously needs to do something tangible to boost their national pride. Otherwise, they will be soon in some serious troubles.

If CPC was weak that couldn't transform China into a powerhouse, then most Chinese people would already overthrow them long time ago.

Same for Russia, so many people are still clinging to the communist superpower USSR. And if USSR was a nobody weakling state, then I don't think it is going to be missed by the majority of the Russian people.

In Vietnam VCP is totally discredited, nobody trust them, people live there, they see what's going on, they are not stupid, they know the system is corrupted all the way from the top.
How can you fix corruption if the ones at the top are corrupted?

Vietnamese would only trust their leaders in case of war or in cases of natural disasters. They are good at that. A big typhoon comes, and in 24 hours they can mobilize half million people in one area from the militias and the military, etc.

Managing the economy or the daily affairs of the state? Forget it !!!!

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I guess you didn't read what I wrote a few pages ago about Viet SOEs so this is new to you.

Viet SOEs are run by massively corrupted cronies of the Viet elite and VCP. Extremely corrupted people and totally incompetent.

They used most of the available bank credit which they get at low rates and with few questions asked and what did they do with it? They used it to speculate in real state, which created a real state bubble that recked the economy a few years ago (still trying to recuperate from that), that's how they got into a 69 billion usd debt.

The oil company rips off their customers, when oil prices go up, they increase prices right away, then oil prices go down, they either don't reduce them or reduce them only a bit, after a few years of that, Vietnam's gasoline prices are significantly higher than in USA.

The electric company just announced a 7.5% rate increase because they are losing money, but the reason why they lose money is because they speculated in real state and lost their shirt, so now electric customers have to pay for that.

And lets not even talk about Vinashin, the state owned ship builder that declared bankrupcy because of corruption and mismanagement.

Why would the state need to own a milk making company (Vinamilk)? Nothing strategic about that.

The SOEs that are well run or are strategic are not being sold or only sell a minority share.

What they are selling is the cancers.

Do you get the picture now? I have nothing at all against SOEs as a matter of principle.

Well, the US wanna control your strategic SOE, so that's the only way to truly control your economy.

So beware of that.

Too bad, the incompetence is even worse than the corruption.

Some Chinese SOE are also very corrupt, but their managers are extremely smart and competent.

Under Xi Jinping's iron fist, China's SOE has become much cleaner than before.

 

[AndrewJin]

I guess you didn't read what I wrote a few pages ago about Viet SOEs so this is new to you.

Viet SOEs are run by massively corrupted cronies of the Viet elite and VCP. Extremely corrupted people and totally incompetent.

They used most of the available bank credit which they get at low rates and with few questions asked and what did they do with it? They used it to speculate in real state, which created a real state bubble that recked the economy a few years ago (still trying to recuperate from that), that's how they got into a 69 billion usd debt.

The oil company rips off their customers, when oil prices go up, they increase prices right away, then oil prices go down, they either don't reduce them or reduce them only a bit, after a few years of that, Vietnam's gasoline prices are significantly higher than in USA.

The electric company just announced a 7.5% rate increase because they are losing money, but the reason why they lose money is because they speculated in real state and lost their shirt, so now electric customers have to pay for that.

And lets not even talk about Vinashin, the state owned ship builder that declared bankrupcy because of corruption and mismanagement.

Why would the state need to own a milk making company (Vinamilk)? Nothing strategic about that.

The SOEs that are well run or are strategic are not being sold or only sell a minority share.

What they are selling is the cancers.

Do you get the picture now? I have nothing at all against SOEs as a matter of principle.

So their coping mechanism is to sell them and privatize them without reforms?

 

[Carlosa]

So their coping mechanism is to sell them and privatize them without reforms?

Many of the SOEs they will not be able to sell them, period. Nobody is stupid enough to buy them.

Some SOEs such as that milk company are actually very good, well run as a private company and making tons of money, that one will go fast. They sell it because of not strategic importance, just milk making.

They will sell the ones that have potential and if the government agrees to reforms, otherwise no chance.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

In Vietnam VCP is totally discredited, nobody trust them, people live there, they see what's going on, they are not stupid, they know the system is corrupted all the way from the top.
How can you fix corruption if the ones at the top are corrupted?

Vietnamese would only trust their leaders in case of war or in cases of natural disasters. They are good at that. A big typhoon comes, and in 24 hours they can mobilize half million people in one area from the militias and the military, etc.

Managing the economy or the daily affairs of the state? Forget it !!!!

Well, the top leadership in Vietnam got some serious problem.

Even a single dictator is better than a group of corrupt cronies.

As for the anti-disaster performance, this is a common trait for all communist armies, because they are all highly centralized, hence they are all highly efficient and can easily mobilize the mass public.

 

[powastick]

Many of the SOEs they will not be able to sell them, period. Nobody is stupid enough to buy them.

Some SOEs such as that milk company are actually very good, well run as a private company and making tons of money, that one will go fast. They sell it because of not strategic importance, just milk making.

They will sell the ones that have potential and if the government agrees to reforms, otherwise no chance.

In Malaysia, we just sell them at RM1.00, and let private reform. Doesn't always work. Example that works is Air Asia.

 

[Carlosa]

Well, the top leadership of Vietnam got some serious problem.

Even a single dictator is better than a group of corrupt cronies.

As for anti-disaster performance, this is a common trait for all communist army, because they are all highly centralized, hence they are all highly efficient.

I totally agree. Vietnam tried to copy the system in place in China, but the corruption and incompetence is just too extreme and gets in the way. It has the liabilities of the chinese system, but none of the strengths of it.

Don't get me wrong, there are a few SOEs that are good like Viettel, owned by the military (telecommunications company and defense equipment maker), those are not going to be sold by any means.

The reform needed in Vietnam is very significant, it will be a long way to go, if they can ever make it to that point.

In Malaysia, we just sell them at RM1.00, and let private reform. Doesn't always work. Example that works is Air Asia.

Yes, that's the only way.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I totally agree. Vietnam tried to copy the system in place in China, but the corruption and incompetence is just too extreme and gets in the way. It has the liabilities of the chinese system, but none of the strengths of it.

Don't get me wrong, there are a few SOEs that are good like Viettel, owed by the military (telecommunications company and defense equipment maker), those are not going to be sold by any means.

The reform needed in Vietnam is very significant, it will be a long way to go, if they can ever make it to that point.

Well, the entire SOE of Vietnam still worth more than trillion dollar.

When the US wanna get them, they surely won't pay trillion to acquire that.

So the reform must be extremely prudent, and to lose the trillion national asset is like to commit the worst sin against its people.

 

[Carlosa]

Well, the top leadership in Vietnam got some serious problem..

That's an understatement.

The only thing that keeps the country afloat is the foreign companies.
2014 exports were 150 billion usd, of that 112 billion from foreign companies.

Well, the entire SOE of Vietnam still worth more than trillion dollar.

When the US wanna get them, they surely won't pay trillion to acquire that.

So the reform must be extremely prudent, and to lose the trillion national asset is like to commit the worst sin against its people.

Most likely the main issue will be that they don't give them away to their cronies like it happened in Russia. I could say more about this subject, but since I live in Vietnam, I don't want to get the police at my door and get deported, so I better shut up for now.