Vietnam Defence Forum

[eazzy]

China is taking laos away from Vietnam. Laos and Cambodia are now with China. For Vietnam, China is in the north, the east and the west...no choice but to work with China for stability, security and development instead of being used by the US and then thrown away when they no longer need you.

 

[Viet]

China is taking laos away from Vietnam. Laos and Cambodia are now with China. For Vietnam, China is in the north, the east and the west...no choice but to work with China for stability, security and development instead of being used by the US and then thrown away when they no longer need you.

There is no evidence that you have drawn Laos and Cambodia into your orbit. No, we still exercise influence on the countries. More, we are trying to expand our sphere to Thailand and Philippines.

Yes, it looks that the pro-China faction has won the internal battle, but should the appeasement politics fail, the consequence will be not nice at all for anyone of us, including China.

Especially if you redeploy oil rigs into our EEZ. A new confrontation will be inevitable. The people of Vietnam never accept a government that sacrifices territory for a fake friendship. Your claim of the entire SC Sea is the source of tensions, nothing else. It's wise if you resume to negotiate with us.

 

[Genesis]

There is no evidence that you have drawn Laos and Cambodia into your orbit. No, we still exercise influence on the countries. More, we are trying to expand our sphere to Thailand and Philippines.

Yes, it looks that the pro-China faction has won the internal battle, but should the appeasement politics fail, the consequence will be not nice at all for anyone of us, including China.

Especially when you redeploy oil rigs into our EEZ. A new confrontation will be inevitable. The people of Vietnam never accept a government that sacrifices territory for a fake friendship.

let me ask you a question, say you win, you decisively defeat China in a naval battle, then what?

The Chinese power is not based on military, but by our infrastructure, like educated masses, manufacturing and service sectors, roads and rails, in terms of military, the research teams, experiences in design and manufacturing, funding and much much more.

Military is just a by product of the above.


If Vietnam won decisively, would Vietnam be dominate? Would Vietnam be seen as a great power? Could Vietnam get the upper hand? Could Vietnam assert control if Vietnam won?

 

[Carlosa]

@Carlosa

that is really funny. Pls read the article from the state media and share your view. What do you think? I think both parties are shameless. they are better than any entertainer on stage.
Nguyen Thien Nhan, Bureau member receives the newly accredited Chinese Ambassador Hong Xiaoyong.

China ambassador pledges to cement ties with Vietnam | VOV Online Newspaper

Shameless is right !!! This will only last until the next chinese grab and then back to the same place. Some people never learn....

 

[Carlosa]

China is taking laos away from Vietnam. Laos and Cambodia are now with China. For Vietnam, China is in the north, the east and the west...no choice but to work with China for stability, security and development instead of being used by the US and then thrown away when they no longer need you.

The problem with your assessment is that china is not actually working for "stability, security and development", that would be the right direction, but in reality the type of relationship that china creates is one where other countries become "client states", the modern term for the "feudal vassal states" or "tributary states" that china used to have in the past. That's where Myanmar was heading until they changed direction, not even north korea accepts to be in that condition, nobody wants that, so in the end, conflict is the end result and china ends up creating precisely what they are trying to avoid.

 

[eazzy]

Countries make themselfs client states of China. They alienate all other countries and end up relying only on China because China does not care what they do...they just want to make business. Actually China is remarkable for not wanting client states...most large countries want to exerts extensive influence on their smaller neighbours but China does not care...look at how many very small countries border china...yet China does not care...they do business where there is business to do, maybe cooperate on cross border criminality... that's about it...the only country that could be called a client state of China is NK, they made them self a client state of China after the fall of URSS...yet China does not care about what they do. Look at India Bhutan ties, Russia/transnistria/south Ossetia/many others...or Vietnam/Laos ties, that's what I call client states.

 

[BoQ77]

Shameless is right !!! This will only last until the next chinese grab and then back to the same place. Some people never learn....

plain surface ... hidden waves ... diplomat language ...
it's not any good if Vietnam officially declares they confront China like Julie Bishop did ...

 

[Carlosa]

Countries make themselfs client states of China. They alienate all other countries and end up relying only on China because China does not care what they do...they just want to make business. Actually China is remarkable for not wanting client states...most large countries want to exerts extensive influence on their smaller neighbours but China does not care...look at how many very small countries border china...yet China does not care...they do business where there is business to do, maybe cooperate on cross border criminality... that's about it...the only country that could be called a client state of China is NK, they made them self a client state of China after the fall of URSS...yet China does not care about what they do. Look at India Bhutan ties, Russia/transnistria/south Ossetia/many others...or Vietnam/Laos ties, that's what I call client states.

Where do you get that china does not want client states? All the evidence points to that.

Myanmar is the classic example, that's why they reversed direction, as corrupted and brutal that they are, they still have national pride and refused to become a client state. China used their investment and economic influence in order to exploit Myanmar resources in a way that is contrary to the interest of the country and its people, that gets followed by political intimidation, but not only that, at the same time, China supports and arms the rebels of the Shan province ( a drug trafficking region just about) in order to have even more leverage over Myanmar. No wonder Myanmar opened up to the west. China's embrace has fatal consequences.

Lets look at Cambodia, all that chinese economic influence was used the year that the Asean meeting was done in Cambodia in order to get Cambodia to follow the chinese line in such an obvious way that was even so embarrassing to the cambodian people that they had to change direction the following year. That's a client state, that's economic leverage used to pressure a country to follow the chinese line and that's what china wants to make out of all the countries in the region. And if the chinese line is not followed, then economic retaliation comes next.

The thing is, china is so greedy that even when countries are very friendly to china, like Malaysia, which was considered a country that was aligned with china for the most part, still, it makes no difference for them in the end because china still tries to grab territory from them, in this case James Shoal which is just 80 km from Malaysia's coat, so now the malaysians are like "what the hell are the chinese doing? We are very friendly and accommodating to them, we support them, and this is what we get?" So now they are starting to change direction.

Same thing is starting to happen with Indonesia; they were trying to stay neutral, but of course, china has to have claims over the area of the Natuna islands, so now Indonesia is rearming and getting ready to confront china

Same story with Vietnam, the chinese faction of the vietnamese government places relations with china above the country's interest, they kept trying to please china, but what did they get in return from their northern comrades? The oil rig!

China has become extremely successful in making enemies where there were none and pushing everybody into the arms of Uncle Sam.

 

[Carlosa]

plain surface ... hidden waves ... diplomat language ...
it's not any good if Vietnam officially declares they confront China like Julie Bishop did ...

I'm not sure about that, but lets hope that you are right.

 

[eazzy]

I don't think we have the same definition of a client state...of course countries try to influence each others, and the bigger a country is the easier it can influence other countries...should China be sorry for being big ? Or for defending its core interests ?

China has closer ties with its neighbours every day.

 

[EastSea]

I don't think we have the same definition of a client state...of course countries try to influence each others, and the bigger a country is the easier it can influence other countries...should China be sorry for being big ? Or for defending its core interests ?

China has closer ties with its neighbours every day.

problem is that who is closed with China in your mind ?

 

[Carlosa]

I don't think we have the same definition of a client state...of course countries try to influence each others, and the bigger a country is the easier it can influence other countries...should China be sorry for being big ? Or for defending its core interests ?

China has closer ties with its neighbours every day.

Obviously we have different versions of reality.

When a country uses its power to influence and dominate others, its planting the seeds of its own downfall. All empires rise and fall, china is no exception to that rule.

Instigating fear creates enemies.

Using power for the common benefit of all in the region creates friends and allies.

I don't think china will understands that until it is too late.

 

[Carlosa]

problem is that who is closed with China in your mind ?

China has no real friends or allies, only temporary friends of convenience like Russia and Pakistan, both of them know that china is just a threat waiting to happen.

Until a few years ago, some countries in the region had the illusion that they could have friendly, mutually beneficial relations with china, but now all know that there is no such a thing. Like Bush said a few years ago after 9-11 "either you are with us or you are against us". I don't think USA made many friends after that........ China is going in the same direction.

 

[eazzy]

In ASEAN only Philippines and Vietnam are hostile to China. Vietnam is trying to make things better. So it leave us with just the Philippines. That's the reality.

 

[BoQ77]

In ASEAN only Philippines and Vietnam are hostile to China. Vietnam is trying to make things better. So it leave us with just the Philippines. That's the reality.

once Vietnam coupled with US, you would see more close friends.
anyway, Vietnam now quite lonely as independent, non-align country