Video: If China's so GREAT, why do so many FLEE when they have the chance?

[Hamartia Antidote]

People moving overseas for various reasons, political freedom, better financial future, better education opportunities, bigger house, better air..... The list goes on.

Why everything in this world has to be "Black and White", like in so many Hollywood movie "Good vs Evil"? Just because many Chinese buy a second or third home overseas or even get a green card for the sake of it, it doesn't mean China is not a good place for them. They just want to have some overseas living experience so they can brag about among their friends, and the important thing is they can afford to do so. Why is there anything difficult to understand?

I know owning a home is a part of "American Dream", and for most of Americans it is THE biggest investment in their entire life for which they will have to carry their 30-year mortgage well into their retirement. Owning 2nd or 3rd home in different country it is well beyond their wildest imagination.

Many Chinese own their home "free and clean" in their 30s-40s, and they have extra money they can invest. Buying a home overseas is not a bad option, besides they want to make the best out of this life because they don't believe there is a "Next Life". Like a new Chinese saying: "poverty limits your imagination".

My story in Post 71 is actually quite typical for many Chinese. They don't mind paying $500+ utilities (water, sewer, storm sewer, garbage, internet, power and gas, ADT security etc) per month for using it only a couple of months per year. So yes, they are immigrated statistically, but their still live in China.

Winston's view on China is very shallow and skewed, that might be intentional, so he can collect view counts from people who can find satisfaction watching others bitching about China.

China is great, the USA is also great. Owning a extra home in the US doesn't mean China is not great.

Hmm...well instead of commenting on your answer I think I will ask @VCheng what his opinion of your answer is.

VCheng you’ve been here for about 20 years. Do you really think the influx of say the majority of Pakistanis and Chinese is as he put it “people looking for a second home or third home”.

Now obviously Pakistan is not China but I would surmise the reasons are similar. I don’t think the majority of the Chinese you see on the streets or in your neighborhood are “temporary”. I think most (but not all) have moved here for the long term and Dungeness is kidding himself if he thinks otherwise. Now I’m not talking about college age kids who are over here studying.

Every Chinese family I speak with never mentions going back. I think for most they had a reason back home that made them move. It wasn’t because they thought their country was “bad” it was just something nudged them out.

 

[VCheng]

Hmm...well instead of commenting on your answer I think I will ask @VCheng what his opinion of your answer is.

VCheng you’ve been here for about 20 years. Do you really think the influx of say the majority of Pakistanis and Chinese is as he put it “people looking for a second home or third home”.

Now obviously Pakistan is not China but I would surmise the reasons are similar. I don’t think the majority of the Chinese you see on the streets or in your neighborhood are “temporary”. I think most (but not all) have moved here for the long term and Dungeness is kidding himself if he thinks otherwise. Now I’m not talking about college age kids who are over here studying.

Every Chinese family I speak with never mentions going back. I think for most they had a reason back home that made them move. It wasn’t because they thought their country was “bad” it was just something nudged them out.

Many first generation immigrants, regardless of the country of origin, harbor a vague wish to return, whether expressed or not, mostly from romanticized nostalgia. However, once the inevitable process of assimilation begins, return becomes more and more unlikely for them, and most certainly for the second and later generations.

Imperfect as it is, USA has a way of growing on most immigrants.

 

[xyxmt]

Canada is massive and in some ways similar to the UK. More Brits actually move to Australia and Spain.

again i ask why when Britannia is so great

 

[Dungeness]

Hmm...well instead of commenting on your answer I think I will ask @VCheng what his opinion of your answer is.

VCheng you’ve been here for about 20 years. Do you really think the influx of say the majority of Pakistanis and Chinese is as he put it “people looking for a second home or third home”.

Now obviously Pakistan is not China but I would surmise the reasons are similar. I don’t think the majority of the Chinese you see on the streets or in your neighborhood are “temporary”. I think most (but not all) have moved here for the long term and Dungeness is kidding himself if he thinks otherwise. Now I’m not talking about college age kids who are over here studying.

Every Chinese family I speak with never mentions going back. I think for most they had a reason back home that made them move. It wasn’t because they thought their country was “bad” it was just something nudged them out.

IDK what kind of Chinese people you see on the street or you speak to. "Boat people" living in Chinatown New York who applied "political asylum" in 80's? Falun Gong practitioners in yellow shirts? I personally know quite a few Chinese owning a home here but never sold ones in China, and they never apply for US citizenship. Even Huawei founder's daughter owns a couple homes in Vancouver BC.

There is no point arguing if China is great or not, as everyone has his or her opinion. My question to you is, since you are so interested in China topic and obviously have time and money, why don't you buy a ticket to see for yourself, and it only costs $140 for a 10-year tourist Visa, rather than watching other's Youtube channel and feeling you know China better than Chinese?

If you for some reason can't go, you can at least diversify your Youtube channel subscription for a change? Here is one from an American, and read comment section. You may find it is you who has been kidding himself all these years.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

IDK what kind of Chinese people you see on the street or you speak to. "Boat people" living in Chinatown New York who applied "political asylum" in 80's? Falun Gong practitioners in yellow shirts? I personally know quite a few Chinese owning a home here but never sold ones in China, and they never apply for US citizenship. Even Huawei founder's daughter owns a couple homes in Vancouver BC.

There is no point arguing if China is great or not, as everyone has his or her opinion. My question to you is, since you are so interested in China topic and obviously have time and money, why don't you buy a ticket to see for yourself, and it only costs $140 for a 10-year tourist Visa, rather than watching other's Youtube channel and feeling you know China better than Chinese?

If you for some reason can't go, you can at least diversify your Youtube channel subscription for a change? Here is one from an American, and read comment section. You may find it is you who has been kidding himself all these years.

Ok, you are still dodging the OP topic so I will continue on the Pakistani angle in hopes of getting you to think about things a bit more.

I work with a very devout Pakistani Muslim. He’s got the beard and he used an Islamic mortgage to buy his house because usury is against his beliefs.

I asked him why he moved to the US and he replied “for religious reasons”.

Now that response has to be the most counter-intuitive answer I was ever expecting him (of all people) to utter.

So perplexed I asked him to elaborate on it. His response was he felt more comfortable in a land of non-believers than in a land where he has to deal with “fake Muslims” every day. When somebody in Pakistan expects a bribe to do anything that rattles him to the bone. Here in the US that isn’t a problem and if it was it wouldn’t bother him as much because it will most likely not be a fellow Muslim. He can write that off easily as a stupid non-believer who deserves his future wretched fate for being that way. (Lol @VCheng he always sticks things like that at the end of explanations. Something like “that’s nice that so-and-so atheist donated a trillion dollars to the poor people of Africa...too bad it doesn’t change his wretched fate”)

Now like you he says Pakistan is a wonderful country and I should go visit it. Of course he loves his country. I’m sure it is very nice. But the topic in the OP is if a country is so wonderful why are people leaving. My co-worker stated his reason and the guy in the OP stated what he thinks the reasons are for some Chinese.

I can list a bunch of reasons I have heard as to why Chinese people are leaving but you will simply get angry and dismiss them all quickly.

I highly doubt Falun Gong persecution is a primary reason.

 

[VCheng]

Now like you he says Pakistan is a wonderful country and I should go visit it. Of course he loves his country. I’m sure it is very nice. But the topic in the OP is if a country is so wonderful why are people leaving.

Of course Pakistan is a wonderful country. But USA can be wonderfuller.

 

[Jaanbaz]

again i ask why when Britannia is so great

Well its former shadow of itself but it stills commands great soft power throughout the world, it's a nuclear power and has some of the best trained army and special forces in the world, it's one of the world's oldest democracy.

 

[Metanoia]

People vote with their feet.

 

[sinait]

Ok, you are still dodging the OP topic so I will continue on the Pakistani angle in hopes of getting you to think about things a bit more.

I work with a very devout Pakistani Muslim. He’s got the beard and he used an Islamic mortgage to buy his house because usury is against his beliefs.

I asked him why he moved to the US and he replied “for religious reasons”.

Now that response has to be one of the most counter-intuitive answer I was every expecting him (of all people) to utter.

So perplexed I asked him to elaborate on it. His response was he felt more comfortable in a land of non-believers than in a land where he has to deal with “fake Muslims” every day. When somebody in Pakistan expects a bribe to do anything that rattles him to the bone. Here in the US that isn’t a problem and if it was it wouldn’t bother him as much because it will most likely not be a fellow Muslim. He can write that off easily as a stupid non-believer who deserves his future wretched fate for being that way. (Lol @VCheng he always sticks things like that at the end of explanations. Something like “that’s nice that so-and-so atheist donated a trillion dollars to the poor people of Africa...too bad it doesn’t change his wretched fate”)

Now like you he says Pakistan is a wonderful country and I should go visit it. Of course he loves his country. I’m sure it is very nice. But the topic in the OP is if a country is so wonderful why are people leaving. My co-worker stated his reason and the guy in the OP stated what he thinks the reasons are for some Chinese.

I can list a bunch of reasons I have heard as to why Chinese people are leaving but you will simply get angry and dismiss them all quickly.

I highly doubt Falun Gong persecution is a primary reason.

No way I would move over to China and compete with those MILLIONS of SMART PEOPLE.
My children prefer to move over to Australia.

With lazy working hours and high pay, while competing with the DUMMIES in Australia is much preferable even for Singaporeans with their long working hours.
If not for it being boring in Australia, I would be there too.

996 working hours anybody, NO THANKS.
I guess high pay, more liberal laws, more rights for the filthy rich and competing with the DUMB Americans is a better proposition for most Chinese.
I suspect a lot of Chinese moving over to the US for fear that Xi's anti corruption drive will soon catch up with their unaccounted for wealth.

Actually China is not yet GREAT.
China is well on its way to be GREAT.
That had the US shivering in their boots.
.

 

[Dungeness]

But the topic in the OP is if a country is so wonderful why are people leaving. My co-worker stated his reason and the guy in the OP stated what he thinks the reasons are for some Chinese.

I have already answered your question in post 62, 71, 74.

The title of OP's video is a "false proposition". 140 millions Chinese had chance to "flee" the country last year as tourists, almost everyone came back. May I ask a question in the same fashion: If China is not good, why these people chose to come back? Or, If America is so great, why Donald Trump would say: comparing with China, America looks like 3rd world? You see you fell for logic trap and you don't even know it. By the way, have you even been in STEM team?

Now, would you answer my question: If you are so interested in topics about China, why don't you go there see for yourself to get firsthand experience, rather than trying to see through other's eyes?

 

[Vikki]

I have no plan to move anywhere. My business is in Beijing.

I have one question..where did you have your education?Chinese are bad at English..how did you learn English?

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

I have already answered your question in post 62, 71, 74.

The title of OP's video is a "false proposition". 140 millions Chinese had chance to "flee" the country last year as tourists, almost everyone came back. May I ask a question in the same fashion: If China is not good, why these people chose to come back? Or, If America is so great, why Donald Trump would say: comparing with China, America looks like 3rd world? You see you fell for logic trap and you don't even know it. By the way, have you even been in STEM team?

Now, would you answer my question: If you are so interested in topics about China, why don't you go there see for yourself to get firsthand experience, rather than trying to see through other's eyes?

Ok, I think you are done in this thread.

As for my "interest in China". I could easily say it is due to my Chinese wife but actually (as other non-asians here can attest to like @PeaceGen @Vergennes @mike2000 is back ) the main reason is due to Nationalistic Chinese posters simply flooding the non-China forums with their articles...which tend to be trolling. You can't help but notice them.

Even the Russians and the Iranians on here aren't anywhere near as bad. In fact I have had friendly chats with them (like @Gothic ). I bet if there were a bunch of North Koreans on here they wouldn't be anywhere near as bad either.

 

[BringHarmony]

Hmm...well instead of commenting on your answer I think I will ask @VCheng what his opinion of your answer is.

VCheng you’ve been here for about 20 years. Do you really think the influx of say the majority of Pakistanis and Chinese is as he put it “people looking for a second home or third home”.

Now obviously Pakistan is not China but I would surmise the reasons are similar. I don’t think the majority of the Chinese you see on the streets or in your neighborhood are “temporary”. I think most (but not all) have moved here for the long term and Dungeness is kidding himself if he thinks otherwise. Now I’m not talking about college age kids who are over here studying.

Every Chinese family I speak with never mentions going back. I think for most they had a reason back home that made them move. It wasn’t because they thought their country was “bad” it was just something nudged them out.

I work in HVAC industry. I meet builders and renovators day in and day out. The story of Asian buyers is usually very cookie cutter. It’s either a retired couple moving out to more comfortable and more secure place with socialised medical care OR a factory owner wants to take his family out of China while keeping his business in China OR likely bunch of crooks trying to park their ill-gotten wealth.

 

[Dungeness]

Ok, I think you are done in this thread.

As for my "interest in China". I could easily say it is due to my Chinese wife but actually (as other non-asians here can attest to like @PeaceGen @Vergennes @mike2000 is back ) the main reason is due to Nationalistic Chinese posters simply flooding the non-China forums with their articles...which tend to be trolling. You can't help but notice them.

Even the Russians and the Iranians on here aren't anywhere near as bad. In fact I have had friendly chats with them (like @Gothic ). I bet if there were a bunch of North Koreans on here they wouldn't be anywhere near as bad either.

I know you have Chinese wife, and I did not mention it out of the concern of your privacy. I guess she is not into politics otherwise she would have given you her perspective about China so that you would not have been so way off about China.

You still dodge my question as why you don't go to China and see for yourself, rather than watching someone else's video then posted here to provoke? I would have a lot more respect for you if it was your own video.

This is international forum that's why we are even here in the first place. Chinese members are merely excising their "freedom of speech" whether you like it or not. You can call their posts propaganda, so can they do to MSM that you reply on as the only source of information. The distinctive difference between you and them is, they can read English, but you can't read Chinese. By definition, they have more diversified sources of information than you, therefore, they are less likely to subject to closed brainwash.

IDK about Russian or Iranian members, but I can understand why Chinese members post so much here, that's because western media never give China a fair coverage. China always gets more than her fair share of demonizing by western media, and Chinese members want others to know what they think is truth. You can disagree, but you have no position to shut them up.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

I work in HVAC industry. I meet builders and renovators day in and day out. The story of Asian buyers is usually very cookie cutter. It’s either a retired couple moving out to more comfortable and more secure place with socialised medical care OR a factory owner wants to take his family out of China while keeping his business in China OR likely bunch of crooks trying to park their ill-gotten wealth.

I know you have Chinese wife, and I did not mention it out of the concern of your privacy. I guess she is not into politics otherwise she would have given you her perspective about China so that you would not have been so way off about China.

You still dodge my question as why you don't go to China and see for yourself, rather than watching someone else's video then posted here to provoke? I would have a lot more respect for you if it was your own video.

This is international forum that's why we are even here in the first place. Chinese members are merely excising their "freedom of speech" whether you like it or not. You can call their posts propaganda, so can they do to MSM that you reply on as the only source of information. The distinctive difference between you and them is, they can read English, but you can't read Chinese. By definition, they have more diversified sources of information than you, therefore, they are less likely to subject to closed brainwash.

IDK about Russian or Iranian members, but I can understand why Chinese members post so much here, that's because western media never give China a fair coverage. China always gets more than her fair share of demonizing by western media, and Chinese members want others to know what they think is truth. You can disagree, but you have no position to shut them up.

She not interested in visiting. I have asked her about it on numerous occasions. As I said in my Pakistani example some people just get fed up, pack their bags, and leave their country. My Pakistani co-worker could have easily picked the U.K. or Canada and his story would be basically the same. The topic isn’t why do people move to the US...it’s if things are so great why do people pack up and leave. This guy’s story is probably an edge case. My wife’s could be too...so that’s why I’m not stating it as you’ll just simply dismiss it as her being a “banana” and not a typical reason.

Ok now you have to give us your story...why are you not in China (which I was avoiding asking you). I could be stupid and simply throw back your own answers and say you must be Falun Gong or some millionaire whose primary residence is in China...but I’m quite sure that is not the case.