US missile defense: Seoul must make clear extent of alliance cost

[Pangu]

Addendum:

Japan also does not make impudent statements about turning South Korea or Seoul into "moldering ash" as what the North Korean regime repetitively does. Second, Japan Maritime Forces never once shot at or instigated South Korean vessels, as what North Korea has done, namely sinking one of their corvetttes recently. It seems to me that the current Park administration in South Korea is suffering from Paranoia and Delusions.



South Korea exists today because of American military presence. Despite media reports that show Korean antagonism towards American military presence, the overwhelming majority of them are very fond of the Americans. Notwithstanding, the United States Nuclear Umbrella guarantees Seoul's protection from Pyongyang.

The JGSDF, JMSDF, and JASDF are also watching the Korean peninsula closely. And in the event of a conflict with the North, we will intervene as well.

I have been to S.K. many years back. It's true that they enjoyed having the Americans there, but mostly for economic reason, still there are resentments against the Americans, particularly as American favor Japan over them, as the American pressure on the Koreans to tone-it-down regarding WWII historical issues is enomous. On top of that, Japan's economic & diplomatic primacy, China's rising economic prowess & fat Kim's provocation in the north isn't helping things for them.

Also, some media reported that they are facing a major problem with the the younger generations have declining enthusiasm for reunification. So, what will the future hold for the Koreans? Disunited with continued US presence, but for how long? Or, get rough & tumble with N.K., and begin a long progress of social hardship & intergration, but with prospect of a greater Korea?

If a greater Korea does come into being in the future, the geo-political cards will once again be shuffled in our region. It would be very interesting indeed.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

Koreans , in general, are a very proud group of people. I have interacted long enough with them and have visited many times to Seoul, Busan. They are very sensitive when the issue arises about the Japanese colonial era. On government to government issues, they always bring that up. But on a people to people level, we get a long with them very well. There is a significant amount of Korean - Japanese , or known as Zainichi. Cross cultural interaction is abundant and a lot of Korean media are very fond of Japanese music, Japanese films, etc. The same for Japan; we are also fond of Korean music, food, drama series. lol

Yes, I certainly understand patriotism, but the Korean obsession with blood purity always set my teeth on edge. Koreans I interacted with both in the US and in my time in Japan were strangely loyal to North Korea, even preferring relations with North Korea over the US. I hoped that this misplaced solidarity was just a function of Kim Dae Jung's sunshine policy or Roh Moo-hyun's anti-American rhetoric, but the ease with which anti-American riots break out in South Korea over trivial matters (e.g. beef) makes me wonder if it's only a matter of time until they join up with China. Personally, I hope USFK is dismantled soon.

I have been to S.K. many years back. It's true that they enjoyed having the Americans there, but mostly for economic reason, still there are resentments against the Americans, particularly as American favor Japan over them, as the American pressure on the Koreans to tone-it-down regarding WWII historical issues is enomous. On top of that, Japan's economic & diplomatic primacy, China's rising economic prowess & fat Kim's provocation in the north isn't helping things for them.

Also, some media reported that they are facing a major problem with the the younger generations have declining enthusiasm for reunification. So, what will the future hold for the Koreans? Disunited with continued US presence, but for how long? Or, get rough & tumble with N.K., and begin a long progress of social hardship & intergration, but with prospect of a greater Korea?

If a greater Korea does come into being in the future, the geo-political cards will once again be shuffled in our region. It would be very interesting indeed.

Agreed on all counts. I actually think the formation of a Greater Korea would be just the thing needed to bring the US and China closer together.

 

[Aepsilons]

Yes, I certainly understand patriotism, but the Korean obsession with blood purity always set my teeth on edge. Koreans I interacted with both in the US and in my time in Japan were strangely loyal to North Korea, even preferring relations with North Korea over the US. I hoped that this misplaced solidarity was just a function of Kim Dae Jung's sunshine policy or Roh Moo-hyun's anti-American rhetoric, but the ease with which anti-American riots break out in South Korea over trivial matters (e.g. beef) makes me wonder if it's only a matter of time until they join up with China. Personally, I hope USFK is dismantled soon.

Its interesting you said that @LeveragedBuyout , because the same thing happened to me and my x-gf a while back. I dated a Korean girl for 2 years and to be honest she was the first non-Japanese gf i had. I mean, i have no problems with girls of different ethnic background. So i was very open to it. lol. When she introduced me to her parents one time, they asked where i was from. Her dad thought I was Chinese , LOL!! Then i told her parents my first name. i can still remember their facial expression. LOL.

 

[terranMarine]

Wa

Its interesting you said that @LeveragedBuyout , because the same thing happened to me and my x-gf a while back. I dated a Korean girl for 2 years and to be honest she was the first non-Japanese gf i had. I mean, i have no problems with girls of different ethnic background. So i was very open to it. lol. When she introduced me to her parents one time, they asked where i was from. Her dad thought I was Chinese , LOL!! Then i told her parents my first name. i can still remember their facial expression. LOL.

Was it something like this ?

 

[Aepsilons]

Wa

Was it something like this ?

Her dad was more shocked than her mom. But, after the first meeting, they were very accepting. Korean parents, like Japanese parents, are very similar in a way. Especially the older generation.

 

[Nan Yang]

Trust me, they should be more worried and concerned on North Korea than Japan. There is no competition between South Korea and Japan. Japan does not consider South Korea a threat, and neither should South Korea think so. To do so would deteriorate relations with us. In fact, we are already cooperating with Seoul in communication with North Korea.

Like you said. Each country has its own interest. It is in Japan interest that North and South Korea do not reunite or get too friendly with each other. Japan would love to see tension between both North and South to keep both side focus at each other instead of Japan. Each time when both North and South Korea gets too friendly, Japan would try its best to sabotage that relationship. Its in Japan's interest.

On the other hand, the relationship between China and South Korea today are at its best despite the small distraction over the ADIZ. Both China and South Korea's policy towards the North are very similar. Both want China to help develop N Korea to a level where unification would not be too expensive.

And the more Abe move Japan to the right, the more South Korea will gravitate towards China.

 

[Nan Yang]

Do you have any insight into why Taiwan was able to get over this animosity and establish friendly relations with Japan, while China and South Korea were not?

Need to understand the short 50 years history under Japanese occupation from 1895 to 1945.
There are people that also hate Japan in Taiwan.
After Qing China ceded Taiwan to Japan, Japan decided to assimilate its people (like the Okinawan) since the Chinese share similar culture. Japan also wanted to make Taiwan an example to the world. Many Chinese also see Japan as a model at that time. But the aborigines were massacred since they resisted. So today the aborigines views of Japan is not the same.

Then during WW2, Taiwan received huge investment as Japan used Taiwan as the logistic center to attack South East Asia. Taiwan also did not suffer much bombing and basically escape the destruction of the war. So the reason why a good portion of Taiwanese to not hate Japan. They had a good life throughout the war. They never suffered the misery of war like the rest of Asia.

Then Japan lost. Taiwan was returned to ROC and KMT. KMT are Chinese that suffered under Japan so these people hate Japan. Then KMT lost the civil war and the entire KMT remnants escaped to Taiwan and rule Taiwan with an iron fist.

So today Taiwanese politics still use words like Wai Sheng Ren (Born in China) and Ben Sheng Ren (Born in Taiwan).

 

[Aepsilons]

Like you said. Each country has its own interest. It is in Japan interest that North and South Korea do not reunite or get too friendly with each other. Japan would love to see tension between both North and South to keep both side focus at each other instead of Japan. Each time when both North and South Korea gets too friendly, Japan would try its best to sabotage that relationship. Its in Japan's interest.

On the other hand, the relationship between China and South Korea today are at its best despite the small distraction over the ADIZ. Both China and South Korea's policy towards the North are very similar. Both want China to help develop N Korea to a level where unification would not be too expensive.

And the more Abe move Japan to the right, the more South Korea will gravitate towards China.

No, it is not in Japan's interest to have a disunited North and South Korea. To be frank with you, it is Japan's interest if Korea is unified. Despite political objections (minor) between Japanese and Korean counterparts on shrine visitations, the bilateral trade between ROK and Japan is substantial, we have a successful cultural interaction, large quantities of Koreans visit Japan every year and Japanese visit Korea as if its a summer vacation spot. Its not isolative relationship. If NK and ROK were to unify, this would be a relief to JSDF, because one, we can expect a relief in regards to military strain in containing NK. It would be to the interest of SK, Japan and USA that NK and ROK unify.

However, this would be a detriment for both China and Russia.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

No, it is not in Japan's interest to have a disunited North and South Korea. To be frank with you, it is Japan's interest if Korea is unified. Despite political objections (minor) between Japanese and Korean counterparts on shrine visitations, the bilateral trade between ROK and Japan is substantial, we have a successful cultural interaction, large quantities of Koreans visit Japan every year and Japanese visit Korea as if its a summer vacation spot. Its not isolative relationship. If NK and ROK were to unify, this would be a relief to JSDF, because one, we can expect a relief in regards to military strain in containing NK. It would be to the interest of SK, Japan and USA that NK and ROK unify.

However, this would be a detriment for both China and Russia.

Sometimes I wonder about that. If Greater Korea is formed, it will still share the victim/grievance mindset that plagues China, and perhaps decide to lash out at either Japan (for WWII) or China (for the Korean War and its aftermath). South Korea is already allied with and protected by the US, and still virulently anti-American. With a united Korea, who knows how that will end up. In that sense, I agree with @xudeen.

 

[Aepsilons]

Sometimes I wonder about that. If Greater Korea is formed, it will still share the victim/grievance mindset that plagues China, and perhaps decide to lash out at either Japan (for WWII) or China (for the Korean War and its aftermath). South Korea is already allied with and protected by the US, and still virulently anti-American. With a united Korea, who knows how that will end up.

If you studied the history of Korea, the last time Korea was unified under a great power was during the Koguryo Empire. Theirs was a military policy of expanding into territories of present day Manchuria. The natural enemy of the Koguryo Empire was Zhong-Guo.

They never had any aggressive policies with Japan nor did they try expanding into Japan.

A unified Korea , probably would focus on internal development, as North Korea is like a third world country. Japan would be more than happy to help Seoul invest in infrastructural growth of the northern parts of a Unified Korea. This might even help mend relations.

 

[Zhukov]

I dont believe South Korea is dependent on USA anymore.
SK have no significant threat from china.
Its real worry is NKorea. And the worry about NK is not its Milotary but a psyco establishment. NK military is ions behind SK and SK can Eat NK in breakfast. No need any more American Dependence.
As for China, Its not cold war time anymore. SK and China are getting closer ever. And it would benefit SK to develope closer ties with China whil maintaining good relations with USA.
SK Industry is mature enough to catter ita own defence needs

 

[xunzi]

I dont believe South Korea is dependent on USA anymore.
SK have no significant threat from china.
Its real worry is NKorea. And the worry about NK is not its Milotary but a psyco establishment. NK military is ions behind SK and SK can Eat NK in breakfast. No need any more American Dependence.
As for China, Its not cold war time anymore. SK and China are getting closer ever. And it would benefit SK to develope closer ties with China whil maintaining good relations with USA.
SK Industry is mature enough to catter ita own defence needs

South Korea needs American to defeat North Korea with the least amount of cost and damage in case of a North Korea collapse. South Korea is not confident that they can take out North Korea with the quickest punch. Everyone knows they can defeat North Korea army but it will be at enormous cost and extend time.

We can replace the US's role in South Korea but we have to take a risk that North Korea can take aim at us. We are wary of instability in Northeast China. So it remains in status quo. I see the only solution to Korea unification is if China and US cooperate and work together but I don't see that happening. There is too much mistrust with us and our American friend. The US must change its China policy if it wants to improve tie with us.

 

[Aepsilons]

South Korea needs American to defeat North Korea with the least amount of cost and damage in case of a North Korea collapse. South Korea is not confident that they can take out North Korea with the quickest punch. Everyone knows they can defeat North Korea army but it will be at enormous cost and extend time.

We can replace the US's role in South Korea but we have to take a risk that North Korea can take aim at us. We are wary of instability in Northeast China. So it remains in status quo. I see the only solution to Korea unification is if China and US cooperate and work together but I don't see that happening. There is too much mistrust with us and our American friend. The US must change its China policy if it wants to improve tie with us.

Not only that, if North Korea collapses, there will be some 28 million North Koreans that will need resources. The risk of multimillion North Korean refugees in Northeast China will put a toll on resources, and cause instability.

 

[Beast]

Trust me, they should be more worried and concerned on North Korea than Japan. There is no competition between South Korea and Japan. Japan does not consider South Korea a threat, and neither should South Korea think so. To do so would deteriorate relations with us. In fact, we are already cooperating with Seoul in communication with North Korea.

Its not about seeing Japanese as a threat. Its about the attitude of Japanese not seeing Korean as an equal partner. Japan feels they are a higher level than South Korea due to bigger economy, big population and bigger land mass. Therefore they do not need to bow down and make any sincere apology over their torture of Korean in WWII.

 

[Zhukov]

South Korea needs American to defeat North Korea with the least amount of cost and damage in case of a North Korea collapse. South Korea is not confident that they can take out North Korea with the quickest punch. Everyone knows they can defeat North Korea army but it will be at enormous cost and extend time.

We can replace the US's role in South Korea but we have to take a risk that North Korea can take aim at us. We are wary of instability in Northeast China. So it remains in status quo. I see the only solution to Korea unification is if China and US cooperate and work together but I don't see that happening. There is too much mistrust with us and our American friend. The US must change its China policy if it wants to improve tie with us.

Man South Korean Eagles can destroy all of Pyongyang and major military establishments in a jeffy. Do you think NK migs and other antique planes stand a chance?
And i dont think the so called HUGE NK army will remain loyal to pyongyang once there top leadership plus Command and control is taken out.
And for korean reunification. Do you want to take in the mess in NK? and all that poverty? they will eat SK economy away. I believe a democratic NK Having friendly relations with SK is the best options.
And i insist on my point that SK needs US only if China is a threat and i assure you China wants friendly relations with SK and its growing every day. Even people of china have warm sentiments for koreans.

NK is no problem for South. Only there Nukes bother me. What can SK or even USA can do for there nukes