US carried out madrasah bombing

[lulldapull]

It is an absolute shame for this so called country of 'Punjabastan' to not even have the guts to admit that they don't have sovereinty over their own territory. Jhoota chamcha Musharraf is a coward and a lackey. Pakistan is a total sell out, and probably number one as far as sold out Sunni muslim countries are concerned.



The Sunday Times November 26, 2006

US carried out madrasah bombing

THE bombing of a Pakistani madrasah last month, in which 82 students were killed, was carried out by the United States, a Pakistani official has admitted, writes Christina Lamb.

The madrasah in the tribal agency of Bajaur was bombed during a visit to Pakistan by the Prince of Wales amid allegations that it was being used to train suicide bombers.

“We thought it would be less damaging if we said we did it rather than the US,” said a key aide to President Pervez Musharraf. “But there was a lot of collateral damage and we’ve requested the Americans not to do it again.”

The Americans are believed to have attacked after a tip-off that Ayman al-Zawahiri, the deputy leader of Al-Qaeda, was present. Local people claimed the victims included boys as young as 12 and that the tribal area had been negotiating with the Pakistan government for a peace deal.

Pakistani officials insist they were shown satellite images of people training and have checked the identity cards of all those killed, and that all were adults.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-2471863,00.html

 

[Bull]

hmm now wait for the storm.

 

[KashifAsrar]

Nothing would happen BULL.
'Basi Kadhi main ubaal nahin aaya karta' !
There is no party or organization in Pakistan who can challange the US puppet.
Kashif

 

[EagleEyes]

U.S puppet?

Too bad, that same puppet is probably smarter than all of what you Indians got.

 

[Awesome]

So we are just supposed to trust that a Pakistani official has claimed so? A close aide isn't exactly solid identification.

People have been assuming that it was a US operation so anyone can say they think so. Even if the media wants to keep their informant confidential, the informant could've supplied some sort of incriminating evidence.

Even if there were boys as young as 12, boys younger than that have carried out bombings by militants around the world. If they were being recruited or were part of that Madrassa (its doubtful any of them didn't know what was going on in a big militant camp) then they are all legitimate targets. Imagine the amount of young boys they would kill otherwise with their bombings and AK-47s if we let them go.

Our target was the madrassa. I would have the good sense of not heading into one.

 

[blain2]

U.S puppet?

Too bad, that same puppet is probably smarter than all of what you Indians got.

Amen to that!

Musharraf is ok by me any day, any time over the dynamic duo and what we have sitting around in the region. He cares for Pakistan, he is not perfect, and that makes him all the more likeable for me at least.

:flag:

Its funny that our friends from the East are worried about the US puppet in Pakistan. I would suggest that they beware of the same puppeteer at work in India....there are quite a few indications of the same trap being spun for India.

 

[EagleEyes]

Amen to that!

Musharraf is ok by me any day, any time over the dynamic duo and what we have sitting around in the region. He cares for Pakistan, he is not perfect, and that makes him all the more likeable for me at least.

:flag:

Its funny that our friends from the East are worried about the US puppet in Pakistan. I would suggest that they beware of the same puppeteer at work in India....there are quite a few indications of the same trap being spun for India.

With all the toys like F/A-18 Super Hornet, P-8, F-16 Block 70 (<- as some Indian media claim). This seems to be the case.

 

[Bull]

U.S puppet?

Too bad, that same puppet is probably smarter than all of what you Indians got.

Just to clarify, i never called him a puppet.

 

[Bull]

Its funny that our friends from the East are worried about the US puppet in Pakistan. I would suggest that they beware of the same puppeteer at work in India....there are quite a few indications of the same trap being spun for India.

Which indian called Mushi a puppet?

Wrt india what are you referring to?

 

[Bull]

With all the toys like F/A-18 Super Hornet, P-8, F-16 Block 70 (<- as some Indian media claim). This seems to be the case.

They are wooing us,they have woed us before also.

And also webby, Pakistan buying F-16 wasnt the reason for pakistan's current state .The current state is only because pakistan played as a pawn for US during the coldwar and didnt consider the priorities of the country.

We can buy all those toys and still remain independant.

 

[Contrarian]

They are selling us arms.
What traps are being set by selling arms??

Its simple, India is gonna spend a huge amount on defence in the comming decade, these 200 MRCA's are just the begining. They dont want the US companies to miss out. Hell, if India could export the goods like US, i wouldnt want my country to miss out on such an oppurtunity. Its plain business sense. They cant ignore India for long now. So they want to cultivate a relationship in the early stages of India's rise. Makes normal sense. They want a strategic partner and they are trying to make one.

But unlike some countries, we have many options with us. We'r not limited to the United States. We are the only country in the world who can buy from the US, EU, RUssia and Israel Simultaneously. We can get whatever we want from wherever we want. Thats severely limits US's powers over us. We will buy whatever is best available to us. There is no doubt the US is trying to make up for the love lost in the previous decades when it sided with Pakistan against India. They gave us the nuclear deal, etc, etc to generate good faith, to increase trade. They want an ally in S.Asia who has the potential to become a major power to rival the best.

So underestanding the fact that we have the soviet and EU block with us as well, the US cant make India its puppet. The US is a superpower as of now, and obviously exerts a great amount of influence over any nation. But that is the limit. India can never be a puppet of US, for reasons stated above, also for the reason that India is a democracy, which means that we hav parties that dont like the US as well. Take the LEFT for example, they dont like the US, and they are in a position o command the govt. Its simple as that. The US realises this fact, that it cannot bully us at its whim and fancy, like shutting off spares, etc as that wont work in our case, we have the economy, we can buy from elsewhere, that would severely troubhle the US companies like Lockheed, etc. The U.S also realises for a fact, that if they try and put undue pressure on the Indian govt we may simply walk off. The US govt said that they want to make India a superpower, and they understand the military and civilian implications of that statement. We have Russia behind us, we have Brazil, many countries of EU behind us. And now we have the US behind us.

The govt is also not a fool, they realise that a strategic partnership with the worlds only super power is of immense benifit to us. Do you not see for example, the consequences of the nuclear deal? it is way beyond the buying selling of nuke plants. It is a new era. India will no longer be isolated from the world in this front. There will be no ban of items of sensitive nature and dual use etc which were hampering our development and economy. We are partnering with the US to further our own national interests. When they no longer are common, we will break off with them. Other countries that US has mnipulated in the past, had nowhere to turn apart from the US. But, Sirs, in a small while of merely a couple of decades, we will not need to turn to anyone, other countries will turn to us.

There is a huge difference again b/w India and Pakistan, take for example, Lockheed has been selling Pakistan its F-16's for a long while now, but it says that if it gets the Indian contract, it will make a complete MRO facility in India that will cater to its entire range in Asia. That means that even the Pakistani F-16's will come to India for iits MLU's or servicing or whatever. It is accompanied by complete technology transfer. It is immature to compare the two nations. They have different needs as of now and thus different trajectories for the future.

 

[Contrarian]

With all the toys like F/A-18 Super Hornet, P-8, F-16 Block 70 (<- as some Indian media claim). This seems to be the case.

Not some Indian media claims, we have been offered, the F-16 NG(next generation) and/or F-16 blk 70 with complete ToT.

 

[blain2]

They are selling us arms.
What traps are being set by selling arms??

Its simple, India is gonna spend a huge amount on defence in the comming decade, these 200 MRCA's are just the begining. They dont want the US companies to miss out. Hell, if India could export the goods like US, i wouldnt want my country to miss out on such an oppurtunity. Its plain business sense. They cant ignore India for long now. So they want to cultivate a relationship in the early stages of India's rise. Makes normal sense. They want a strategic partner and they are trying to make one.

But unlike some countries, we have many options with us. We'r not limited to the United States. We are the only country in the world who can buy from the US, EU, RUssia and Israel Simultaneously. We can get whatever we want from wherever we want. Thats severely limits US's powers over us. We will buy whatever is best available to us. There is no doubt the US is trying to make up for the love lost in the previous decades when it sided with Pakistan against India. They gave us the nuclear deal, etc, etc to generate good faith, to increase trade. They want an ally in S.Asia who has the potential to become a major power to rival the best.

So underestanding the fact that we have the soviet and EU block with us as well, the US cant make India its puppet. The US is a superpower as of now, and obviously exerts a great amount of influence over any nation. But that is the limit. India can never be a puppet of US, for reasons stated above, also for the reason that India is a democracy, which means that we hav parties that dont like the US as well. Take the LEFT for example, they dont like the US, and they are in a position o command the govt. Its simple as that. The US realises this fact, that it cannot bully us at its whim and fancy, like shutting off spares, etc as that wont work in our case, we have the economy, we can buy from elsewhere, that would severely troubhle the US companies like Lockheed, etc. The U.S also realises for a fact, that if they try and put undue pressure on the Indian govt we may simply walk off. The US govt said that they want to make India a superpower, and they understand the military and civilian implications of that statement. We have Russia behind us, we have Brazil, many countries of EU behind us. And now we have the US behind us.

The govt is also not a fool, they realise that a strategic partnership with the worlds only super power is of immense benifit to us. Do you not see for example, the consequences of the nuclear deal? it is way beyond the buying selling of nuke plants. It is a new era. India will no longer be isolated from the world in this front. There will be no ban of items of sensitive nature and dual use etc which were hampering our development and economy. We are partnering with the US to further our own national interests. When they no longer are common, we will break off with them. Other countries that US has mnipulated in the past, had nowhere to turn apart from the US. But, Sirs, in a small while of merely a couple of decades, we will not need to turn to anyone, other countries will turn to us.

There is a huge difference again b/w India and Pakistan, take for example, Lockheed has been selling Pakistan its F-16's for a long while now, but it says that if it gets the Indian contract, it will make a complete MRO facility in India that will cater to its entire range in Asia. That means that even the Pakistani F-16's will come to India for iits MLU's or servicing or whatever. It is accompanied by complete technology transfer. It is immature to compare the two nations. They have different needs as of now and thus different trajectories for the future.

Again another piece of overt jingoism....an overtly rosey picture about India...reality is quite different.

Pakistani F-16s would NEVER go to India even if you have an assembly line in India....there is considerable avionics and propulsion knowhow in Pakistan and we have and will work with Turkey and even Egypt since they already have the setup in place for major re-work and overhauling (Pakistani MLU work will be done in Turkey).

Complete technology transfer is an oft-touted deal but means very little when India would be getting assembly rights for a 70s design. In any case, with the MKI work being pushed back to Russia, there are many questions with regards to how such a assembly/support/repair facility would be setup....I wager a bet that by the time something like this is setup, many countries like Pakistan would be self sufficient in the upkeep of our F-16s (we already do the engine-overhauls and structural upgrades ourselves). So I would say at least on this count, its wishful thinking.

In terms of traps, you only had to listen to the hearings on the hill wrt the Indian nuclear deal. Many of the folks on the hill said that India actually has to take sides if it wants this deal....this meant that they already exert influence on your foreign policy....a case in point is the Iranian referral to the UNSC...the GoI sold out like a champ. Secondly, with the major weapons purchases, India will be subject to US restrictions just like all of the other countries (even Israel has been impacted by US pressures).

So the only way to get around this problem is by totally aligning your interests with those of the US...in reality this is not easily doable given the regional compulsions. So slowly there are things that are happening...I see the tools that have been used to pressurize Pakistan being given off to India as well...so while not overtly alarmed at this time, I would not be very comfortable with the situation either.

With regards to you stating that India can go either way, well that is easier said than done one you have invested in something....US weaponry is not cheap, it usually forms the mainstay of many countries using it and India would not be an exception...the US may pressurize India down the road since it will not dump Pakistan for India...it can drive mileage out of both so it would be a foolish thing to take sides with one only...so the US is gaining leverage in India and that cannot be denied. This is the way the puppeteer makes inroads.

 

[blain2]

Which indian called Mushi a puppet?

Wrt india what are you referring to?

Do you ever care to read the entire thread? Your mate "Asrar" above used the term "puppet".

 

[vnomad]

Not some Indian media claims, we have been offered, the F-16 NG(next generation) and/or F-16 blk 70 with complete ToT.

F-16 NG? Actually that's the F-16 blk 70 which is next gen. The other options are to go with the F-16 blk 60 (LM would have to pay the UAE 7%) or go with the Israeli F-16I Sufa(I'm not sure about the name 'sufa').

In any case, with the MKI work being pushed back to Russia,

http://www.hal-india.com/su-30-mki.asp
This is with reference to various reports that appeared in a section of Press over Sukhoi (Su-30 MKI) production. The reports, quoting a Russian newspaper, are completely incorrect.

It is hereby clarified that the production of Su-30 MKI aircraft continues in HAL. Total technology is getting established in HAL as planned. In order to complete the programme by 2015 instead of 2018, as required by the Indian Air Force, certain components and systems are being procured from Russia. This decision was taken to optimize the investments in HAL.

The programme of indigenous production of Su-30 MKI aircraft in HAL is continuing at an accelerated pace as compared to earlier plan.

With regards to you stating that India can go either way, well that is easier said than done one you have invested in something....US weaponry is not cheap, it usually forms the mainstay of many countries using it and India would not be an exception...the US may pressurize India down the road since it will not dump Pakistan for India...it can drive mileage out of both so it would be a foolish thing to take sides with one only...so the US is gaining leverage in India and that cannot be denied.

US weaponry will bolster the Indian military but certainly not form the mainstay of it. India's imports will be similar to Pakistan's who relies on China primarily. India relies on Russia and Israel mainly. US arms exports to India will be high-end force-multiplier type not the mainstay of the forces.

Being a democracy India doesn't have to toe the US line. The left who's support is crucial for the present govt. will make sure we aren't overly dependant on the US for anything.