US and NATO grapple with critical ammo shortage for Ukraine

[Hamartia Antidote]

Not sure why Europe who invented modern war, would disable its self by not having military factories all over still.

Because they have all turned into a bunch of crunchy-granola hippies acting like this

 

[kingQamaR]

Because they have all turned into a bunch of crunchy-granola hippies acting like this

How did Europeans allow this to happen become ridiculous they have no future anymore.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

How did Europeans allow this to happen become ridiculous they have no future anymore.

Remember socialism and communism have roots in Europe.

They've always been a little wacky.

They look at the US as backwards hillbillys always trying to build something that makes the world a worse place and we look at them as a bunch of useless hippies admiring how they are getting one mile more to the gallon with some over-engineered contraption to save the planet.

 

[kingQamaR]

Remember socialism and communism have roots in Europe.

They've always been a little wacky.

They look at the US as backwards hillbillys always trying to build something that makes the world a worse place and we look at them as a bunch of useless hippies admiring how they are getting one mile more to the gallon with some over-engineered contraption to save the planet.

Europe societies creating a generation of complete imbeciles who will destroy all when they take charge. Dumbest, most useless, most entitled, and most ignorant generation EVER. There is no hope!

 

[nahtanbob]

Europe societies creating a generation of complete imbeciles who will destroy all when they take charge. Dumbest, most useless, most entitled, and most ignorant generation EVER. There is no hope!

generations of prosperity can do that to you

 

[MeFishToo]

China is not in a hurry to find it out.

What are the odds that China and NATO is ever going to have some sort of artillery duel?

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Europe societies creating a generation of complete imbeciles who will destroy all when they take charge. Dumbest, most useless, most entitled, and most ignorant generation EVER. There is no hope!

The first person known to have this opinion that I am aware of was Aristotele around 2,500 years ago.

 

[Paul2]

European production capacity of 155 mm shells is actually 50.000 per month, and another 10.000 per month if counting Rheinmetalls capacity at Denel Munition in South Africa.
The US and Europe combined is already outproducing Russia in terms large caliber artillery shells, and could tripple the production in 2024.
The amount of shells Russia is reported to be using is not sustainable, and tells us nothing about their production capacity. They are wasting their sovjet inheritance, and it would take Russia decades to restore stockpiles back to pre war level, and it is probably never going to happen.

At least half of that production is set for immediate replenishment of existing stocks, not Ukraine. So, if the West will triple production, they will only have around 2x that averaged.

Which is of course is big, and is of course dependent on whether it will reach anywhere close to 150 thousands per month. The news were that existing machinery is already maxed, so it depends on new forging equipment, and explosives production coming operational.

Germany struggles to get China parts to replenish ammo stockpile​

Supply of military aid to Ukraine is depleting Germany's inventory

A German armed forces vehicle fires a self-propelled gun at the shooting range of Baumholder near Kaiserslautern, Germany, on Nov. 17. © Reuters

JENS KASTNER, Contributing writerDecember 6, 2022 17:46 JST

HAMBURG, Germany -- The supply of military aid to Ukraine is depleting Germany's stockpiles of ammunition -- an issue that may be exacerbated by the slowdown of component imports from China.

German ammunition makers at a recent defense symposium near Munich flagged that the lead time for orders of cotton linters from China -- a key component for propelling charges for both small guns and artillery -- has tripled to up to nine months, German-language daily Die Welt reported.

While cotton linters are a commodity material produced and traded across the globe, the report cited unnamed industry sources saying that all European ammunition manufacturers rely on China for them.

The massive bottlenecks in raw material supply "concern especially ammunition and special steels," Wolfgang Hellmich, the defense affairs speaker for the ruling Social Democratic Party (SPD) in parliament, told Nikkei Asia, when asked whether there are supply bottlenecks for China-sourced materials for military equipment.

On Nov. 28, the German government held an ammunition roundtable with arms-makers, but concrete results were not publicized.

"[At the ammunition roundtable], it was discussed how the ammunition bottlenecks can quickly be reduced, and all sides are working at full steam for solutions to prevent serious inventory gaps," he added.

The German defense ministry has not replied to an inquiry for this article as of press time.

The management of German ammunition manufacturer MEN Metallwerk Elisenhuette, was cited by Die Welt as criticizing the government for being slower in placing orders with the defense industry than other European countries. A spokeswoman for the company confirmed the statements in the report but declined to make further comment.

The delay comes against the backdrop of Beijing refusing to condemn Moscow for the invasion of Ukraine, and China continuing to hold frequent joint military drills with Russia. But at the same time, Russia's firing of tens of thousands of artillery rounds per day in Ukraine have made the Bundeswehr, the German military, realize that its own stockpiles would be grossly inadequate for such high-intensity warfare.

Like other countries, Germany keeps its ammunition stockpiles secret, but many observers believe that the Bundeswehr would run out of ammunition within days or even hours in the event of war. In the wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the SPD-led government under Chancellor Olaf Scholz established a special 100-billion-euro ($106 billion) fund to upgrade its underequipped armed forces.

With Germany simultaneously transferring ammunition to Ukraine's military, such as for multiple rocket launchers, anti-aircraft guns and machine guns, the slowdown of imports of key components from China obviously puts the government in a dilemma.

"There is a reliance on China, and this is posing challenges for the stockpiling effort," said Henning Otte, a parliamentarian for the opposition Christian Democratic Union (CDU), who serves as the deputy chair of the Bundestag's defense committee.

Across the Atlantic, Timothy Heath, a senior international defense researcher at RAND Corp., points out that U.S. defense companies also use Chinese rare earth, raw materials and components.

"This reflects the globalized nature of production. Department of defense policy makers are trying to persuade the companies to reduce or eliminate their reliance on Chinese suppliers," Heath said.

Germany struggles to get China parts to replenish ammo stockpile

Supply of military aid to Ukraine is depleting Germany's inventory

asia.nikkei.com

In the worst case, the can make NC directly from raw cotton, which is acceptable at the current sky high price of propellants.

 

[MeFishToo]

At least half of that production is set for immediate replenishment of existing stocks, not Ukraine. So, if the West will triple production, they will only have around 2x that averaged.

Which is of course is big, and is of course dependent on whether it will reach anywhere close to 150 thousands per month. The news were that existing machinery is already maxed, so it depends on new forging equipment, and explosives production coming operational.



In the worst case, the can make NC directly from raw cotton, which is acceptable at the current sky high price of propellants.

I am not questioning the fact that european stocks are low. My point is that western production capacity is larger than Russias. At some point Russia will reach the bottom of its sovjet stocks.
I believe Rheinmetall alone could increase production to 50.000 155 mm shells per month if orders are recieved. That is probably on par with russian 152 mm production.

 

[Paul2]

I am not questioning the fact that european stocks are low. My point is that western production capacity is larger than Russias. At some point Russia will reach the bottom of its sovjet stocks.
I believe Rheinmetall alone could increase production to 50.000 155 mm shells per month if orders are recieved. That is probably on par with russian 152 mm production.

Russians will not be standing still as well, and the West is staring into barrel life problem too. Spare barrels weren't produced in the West at a replenishment rate even before the war. And there are only 2 big tube artillery makers left in the West.