United States toughens clauses that allow Pakistan to use F 16 fighter jets

[Albatross]

There is a concept of End user agreements and disclosures. Happens all the time.


You are wrong

Prove yourself I am speaking because of having met people who were actually there

 

[XenoEnsi-14]

There is a concept of End user agreements and disclosures. Happens all the time.

But we gave them to Pakistan it's not like they are being borrowed and we expect them back. That's like me giving someone a toy car and telling them not to smash it?!

 

[NKVD]

You see that's the difference, the combatants know the capabilities while internet warriors merely play with cartoons.

We Know Capabilities of your imaginations But the Difference Truth is hard to Swallow for Cash Strapped People that Some things are Always beyond there Reach

 

[TOPGUN]

No restrictions on our f-16's at all they will be and shall be used against any enemy of Pakistan lets get that straight once and for all.............. and look at the news source indian times now lolz haha .

 

[Desertfalcon]

AFAIK, there are no restriction on Pakistan's use of F-16s. I have found no reputable sources online that says that there are any restrictions. The aircraft were sold to Pakistan, not given as a "gift" and the other F-16 batch in question were upgrades by Turkish Aerospace Industries in Ankara. I can find no source stating that American military inspectors are stationed at any PAF bases to monitor F-16 use. I may be wrong, but if I am, someone will have to prove it to me through a reputable media source.

 

[karan.1970]

I am speaking because of having met people who were actually there

Prove that you have met people who were there..

 

[hkdas]

If these "rules" are true and Pakistan actually follows them then Pakistan is stupid. US is stupid too, giving big toys away like that and expecting that country to follow our rules when using them.

in this case no one is stupid... everyone is playing their part... in case of a war pakistan is not going to follow the rules.. USA knows this very well, those rules are for justifying military aid for a country who sponsoring terrorism.. IAF not even considering the rules or restrictions while analysing the thread from pakistan.. those rules are followed only in papers...

 

[karan.1970]

But we gave them to Pakistan it's not like they are being borrowed and we expect them back. That's like me giving someone a toy car and telling them not to smash it?!

You certainly dont sound like an american or else the concept of EULA wouldnt have been so alien to you. And yes, technically, you can sell a toy car and ask the buyer to sign a contract that he will not smash it. Its a different story that no one will buy your toy car, but then F 16s are no toys

 

[hkdas]

Kargil was planned on the pretext that India occupied siachin coz it was vacant though by all logical means it was in Pakistani territory.

Pakistan didn't want to move it to a larger scale so its not only F 16 Pak didn't bring any heavy armory either otherwise Indian bofors could have been made silent easily it was those bofors which was a problem not your mirages.

Tackling them was way easier if the Pak government would have decided so.

pakistan was using heavy artillery.. apart from that they were using US made weapon locating reader to accurately attack indian artillery guns... pakistan was also using UAVs to monitor the battle.. F-16 was never used because US was against pakistan in kargil war. so the were afraid that if they use F-16 against india... military aid and pak-US relation will be badly affected. and also IAF have good counter measures against PAF's F-16.. mig-29 armed with BVR missiles were a great thread to PAF's f-16... and during kargil war pakistan never agreed that those men fighting IA is their soldiers...so that that time the USE of f-16 was out of question..

 

[VCheng]

AFAIK, there are no restriction on Pakistan's use of F-16s. I have found no reputable sources online that says that there are any restrictions. The aircraft were sold to Pakistan, not given as a "gift" and the other F-16 batch in question were upgrades by Turkish Aerospace Industries in Ankara. I can find no source stating that American military inspectors are stationed at any PAF bases to monitor F-16 use. I may be wrong, but if I am, someone will have to prove it to me through a reputable media source.

Proposed Sale of F-16 Aircraft and Weapons Systems of Pakistan

QUOTE: "We, of course, have had a U.S. Government security site survey of their bases and facilities. We have put into the deal that they must comply with the approved security plans for their F–16 related bases and facilities before we will release any systems in the sale. We will have a U.S. presence to monitor compliance with the security plan requirements. A very enhanced end-use monitoring program. Semiannual inventories of all F–16 aircraft equipment and munitions, including related technical data. More frequent inventories for other systems. There are separate and distinct and restricted areas for the F–16 aircraft equipment and munitions. And no mixing with third-country origin aircraft equipment and munitions, and all of this will be monitored. Routine access to F–16 aircraft and munitions is in restricted areas and limited to Pakistan Air Force personnel that are preapproved for such. There is a two-man rule, so to speak, for access to this equipment and restricted areas. And F–16 flights outside of Pakistan and participation in exercises and operations with third nations must be approved in advance by the United States Government. The maintenance is limited to remove and replace line replaceable units and shop replaceable units. And Pakistani Air Force personnel must perform the maintenance. No Pakistan contractors, industry, or third-country nationals. We have also mandated that the F–16 maintenance and parts storage must be in dedicated facilities. Also part of the overall surveillance plan." /QUOTE

 

[banvanaxl]

Proposed Sale of F-16 Aircraft and Weapons Systems of Pakistan

QUOTE: "We, of course, have had a U.S. Government security site survey of their bases and facilities. We have put into the deal that they must comply with the approved security plans for their F–16 related bases and facilities before we will release any systems in the sale. We will have a U.S. presence to monitor compliance with the security plan requirements. A very enhanced end-use monitoring program. Semiannual inventories of all F–16 aircraft equipment and munitions, including related technical data. More frequent inventories for other systems. There are separate and distinct and restricted areas for the F–16 aircraft equipment and munitions. And no mixing with third-country origin aircraft equipment and munitions, and all of this will be monitored. Routine access to F–16 aircraft and munitions is in restricted areas and limited to Pakistan Air Force personnel that are preapproved for such. There is a two-man rule, so to speak, for access to this equipment and restricted areas. And F–16 flights outside of Pakistan and participation in exercises and operations with third nations must be approved in advance by the United States Government. The maintenance is limited to remove and replace line replaceable units and shop replaceable units. And Pakistani Air Force personnel must perform the maintenance. No Pakistan contractors, industry, or third-country nationals. We have also mandated that the F–16 maintenance and parts storage must be in dedicated facilities. Also part of the overall surveillance plan." /QUOTE

Thank you for putting that argument to rest.
BTW off topic: Are you by any chance a serving personnel?

 

[Sugarcane]

These clauses were already there since we purchased, i don't know why Indian have to dig it, sensationalize it and claim it as victory of Modi?

 

[XenoEnsi-14]

You certainly dont sound like an american or else the concept of EULA wouldnt have been so alien to you. And yes, technically, you can sell a toy car and ask the buyer to sign a contract that he will not smash it. Its a different story that no one will buy your toy car, but then F 16s are no toys

EULA is not alien to me and it is highly criticized because nobody really gives a crap about them. I wonder, if we give weapons to "freedom fighters" do they come with an EULA?

Sorry if my common sense is above the EULA, anyways this thread is kind of pointless.

 

[Desertfalcon]

Proposed Sale of F-16 Aircraft and Weapons Systems of Pakistan

QUOTE: "We, of course, have had a U.S. Government security site survey of their bases and facilities. We have put into the deal that they must comply with the approved security plans for their F–16 related bases and facilities before we will release any systems in the sale. We will have a U.S. presence to monitor compliance with the security plan requirements. A very enhanced end-use monitoring program. Semiannual inventories of all F–16 aircraft equipment and munitions, including related technical data. More frequent inventories for other systems. There are separate and distinct and restricted areas for the F–16 aircraft equipment and munitions. And no mixing with third-country origin aircraft equipment and munitions, and all of this will be monitored. Routine access to F–16 aircraft and munitions is in restricted areas and limited to Pakistan Air Force personnel that are preapproved for such. There is a two-man rule, so to speak, for access to this equipment and restricted areas. And F–16 flights outside of Pakistan and participation in exercises and operations with third nations must be approved in advance by the United States Government. The maintenance is limited to remove and replace line replaceable units and shop replaceable units. And Pakistani Air Force personnel must perform the maintenance. No Pakistan contractors, industry, or third-country nationals. We have also mandated that the F–16 maintenance and parts storage must be in dedicated facilities. Also part of the overall surveillance plan." /QUOTE

With all due respect, that is not the same thing as the OP is referring to. Your link is almost a decade old and involved the security regarding F-16's sensitive avionics and weapons systems, not restrictions based on Pakistan's foreign policies. The first sentence from your own quote is proof of that, i.e., there is a difference in security measures regarding the PAF's use of F-16 as opposed to restrictions based on Pakistan complying with America's foreign policy goals. The text of the congressional minutes are concerned about that security, hence, American military and civilian contractors will conduct an initial security site survey where the F-16 are to be housed with security inspections every two years after that and will ensure that in joint exercises with third party countries, that pre-approval based again, on security be obtained, etc. That is totally different than a restriction based on American disagreement with Pakistan's foreign or defence policy.

 

[KingMamba]

These clauses were already there since we purchased, i don't know why Indian have to dig it, sensationalize it and claim it as victory of Modi?

Desperation duh, only ToI is reporting this shit so far.