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United Airlines Loses $1 Billion in Market Value After Assaulting Passenger

wonder how they will bounce back from this
UA will recover from this just fine. This is not an endorsement of UA for what happened. Rather, you must understand the nature of the industry in the first place. Essentially, UA, or any airline for that matter, have a 'captive' customer base. You need to get home overnight for the wedding ? You pay. Simple as that.
 
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It have nothing to do with race, even Dao's lawyer said it have NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE.

Suing an industrial giant, a symbol of America, UA, for being racist won't get him anywhere ( That again proves my point on how deep is the racial root in the west on East Asians), instead his lawyers have decided suing for other much easy and definite kills.

You are quite naïve to think everything is related with race because that guy is Asian, do you even know 2 facts?

1.) The removal is picked at random. Do you know the race of the other 3 who willingly be remove at the same flight?

at least 2 out of 4, 50%, were Asians. Did that plane carry 50% Asian passengers? What were the odds?


2.) The removal is done in according to aviation authority and appropriate law, not only dao was removed, 3400 pax have been removed in the last year, how many of those are Asian?

"3400 removed"? Brilliant, but Dao is the 1st in American aviation history, to be "removed" in such a way. Would the UA dare to "remove" Paris Hilton if she were in Dao's place? or even lay a finger on her coat?

Just because the person in question is Asian, does not mean he has been discriminated.

And you ask me? I don't think I have been discriminated against, I have never been removed fro ma flight, willingly or non-willingly, I have not been treated differently, I talked to my neighbour, they talked to me, and yes, my neighbour are all white. If you feel discriminated against, then well, you need to understand why, but please stop being a stereotype and do not project this naive and racist mentality saying any East Asian are all discriminated in western world.

Is not only your neighbours! or even someone you know! my neightbour treat me like a prince! so what? It's everywhere, it's someone you DON'T KNOW: a cashier of the supermarket you go? a unknown guy in your gym? a random kid chasing you and yelling you "jacky Chen"sth in the street, multiple times, a guy in a nightclub? a waitress in a random pub? that look of a random jogger passing you by in the morning? a random guy in the work place or on gulf course? etc, thousands of different daily occasions... and you've never faced any of those? Stop it! You are deliberately lying, and you know it.
 
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censored.

A.) I am not the one who believe it, it was the LAWYER REPRESENTING DAO who said that, check the post again. That mean DAO HIMSELF don't believe this is because of Race.

B.) You don't know how many Asian were expelled from the flight, you don't know who were expelled from the flight, those information are sealed, you can't start an argument stating an assumption.

C.) No, Dao is not the first one being remove like this, removing passenger kicking and screaming happens a lot, I have quote a woman being remove the same way by United last year on the other thread, yet no one say anything then. There have been whites, arabs, black, who got removed.

Go to youtube, search "Passenger remove from flight" you see all kind of people getting removed from flight some resist, some don't.

Where are you people when this white lady being removed from flight with force??


If I am not wrong, the passenger actually crap at the end.

And where are you when the white guy is forcing off his seat and push away by cop?


Oh well, some passenger crap at the end.

D.) Again, you want to make it a race issue is your problem, but do not project this East Asian stereotype that every white man is trying to come and get you. I have never been discriminated against in any way or from, yes, there were drunk that call people name, but does that represent the whole community? Nope, unless we live in a community of drunk.

Bottom line, I don't believe this is racially motivated, Dao's lawyer don't believe it's racially motivated, most people in the world don't believe it's racially motived, you can think whatever you wanted
 
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upload_2017-4-15_6-33-35.png


Man the Viet Doc was roughed up pretty badly judging from the aforementioned injuries sustained after his head was smashed on the armrest


Looks like UA has learned a very expensive lesson this time and decided it was time to have policy change
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...es-changes-its-policy-on-displacing-customers
 
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Go to youtube, search "Passenger remove from flight" you see all kind of people getting removed from flight some resist, some don't.

Where are you people when this white lady being removed from flight with force??
I can remember when debating the Chinese about Tiananmen. All of them supported the Chinese government unconditionally. Each man was LAW AND ORDER exemplified.

Whenever anyone put forth a criticism in the line of 'The government should have done more...etc...etc...', the Chinese group would gang up that person. To them the Chinese government did everything reasonable and military violence was the only action left. Some of them said the government let the protesters off easy. A very few even asserted that the government should have been more violent, after all, it was about LAW AND ORDER.

But in this case...American law and order was wrong. :lol:
 
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You make up half of the equation. If the police tells you to leave the room, your response is a provocation to theirs.

If you obey and leave the room under your own power, their response will be minimal. They will simply follows you.

What do you think will happens -- as in escalation -- if you get angry, then wave your arms, then start insulting the officers ?

If you chose the route of passive resistance, as in just lay down and not move, that is also provocation. Your laying down provokes the officers to take the issue a different path, that of manhandling you to get you out of the room.

Dr. Dao had the initiative. Very seldom will the police act first. One officer tried persuasion, a fact that have been conveniently omitted. Say you get violent and then subdued. Even so, the officers will still try to get you to leave the room under your own power once you calmed down. They will be alerted and readied to restrain you again, but if you are willing, they will closely escort you from the room.

How Dr. Dao was taken off the aircraft ? He had a hand in it.


Except I already refuted this view point, police don't have the right to slam your face into an arm rest because you were questioning why you were taken off a flight.

United was in the right, the cops were not.

If we look at

18 U.S. Code § 241 - Conspiracy against rights

"If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or"

You also have


42 U.S. Code § 1983 - Civil action for deprivation of rights
"Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia."


If we look at which right under the bill of rights was infringed, we can go to this

Seventh Article:
The right of the People to be secure in their persons
, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


The airline was doing the legal thing and was well within their rights to do such things but the way the man was treated was clearly unfair.


The airline was in the right but the police were out of line.
 
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Except I already refuted this view point, police don't have the right to slam your face into an arm rest because you were questioning why you were taken off a flight.
This is purely for inflammatory purposes. You talk as if the officers looked around, saw an empty armrest, then slammed Dao's face into it just because...

I do not care the reason why you were asked by the captain to leave the aircraft. All I care is that the captain asked, you refused, and it is my job to make sure you are off the aircraft. If you object to the reason why, there are avenues for that objection, but at this moment, if the captain says you must leave -- then you must leave. If you refuse to leave under your own power, then I will remove you from the aircraft by way of my power.
 
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I do not care the reason why you were asked by the captain to leave the aircraft. All I care is that the captain asked, you refused, and it is my job to make sure you are off the aircraft. If you object to the reason why, there are avenues for that objection, but at this moment, if the captain says you must leave -- then you must leave. If you refuse to leave under your own power, then I will remove you from the aircraft by way of my power.

Except the police don't have that right at all.

I have already explained why the police can't do what they did.

Read the laws I posted.

18 U.S. Code § 241 - Conspiracy against rights

"If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or"

You also have


42 U.S. Code § 1983 - Civil action for deprivation of rights
"Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia."


If we look at which right under the bill of rights was infringed, we can go to this

Seventh Article:
The right of the People to be secure in their persons
, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


The airline was doing the legal thing and was well within their rights to do such things but the way the man was treated was clearly unfair.


The airline was in the right but the police were out of line.
 
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Except the police don't have that right at all.

I have already explained why the police can't do what they did.

Read the laws I posted.
There is no 'conspiracy' here. If the police have a warrant, they have the right to enter your house without your consent. If they have an arrest warrant, they have the right to take you to a special place without your consent. You have explained nothing.

But here is a perspective from someone who used to work in the industry....

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianrayca

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Brian Rayca, former Gate Agent at United Airlines (1999-2006)

I was a gate agent for United Airlines for six years. I dealt with countless oversales, most of them customers were not even aware the flight was oversold. There is a lot of misinformation and sanctimonious BS surrounding this incident. Here are a few facts:

Republic Airlines required a crew to deadhead to Louisville. This was not just pulling passengers for employees, this was an operational issue. This was not a United scheduling issue. Oscar Munoz has taken responsibility while Republic has remained silent.

The flight was not oversold. It was full, but not oversold.

A full flight of passengers was waiting for the crew to come to Louisville. Deny them boarding for one man, and dozens more would have been inconvenienced.

The contract allows the airline to move and re-accommodate passengers.

Three of the four passenger needed walked off the flight like adults at the polite request of the ground crew and flight crew.

Federal law requires passengers to comply with the instructions of the crew.

The Police were called when Dao refused to give up his seat, because the employees cannot forcibly remove someone from the plane.

It was the apolice who bloodied Dao as he struggled

Dao has a history of anger management issues and outbursts

Now with those facts above in mind here is my assment. United Airlines is guilty of taking away the flexibility gate agents used to have in offering compensation to volunteers. That is all. That is the only part of this situation that was under United Airlines and Oscar Munoz’s control. The FAA makes the crew rest regulations, Republic Airlines controlled the crew scheduling, Dao refused to Move and the Police bloddied him. None of which Oscar Munoz has control over.

Dr. Dao is responsible for the fight with the police. His obstinate refusal to act as an adult is responsible for the police being called. That being said the police were heavy handed in removing him. But the video shows Dao pitching a fit. After being asked by the United employees very politely. Passengers have restrained fellow passengers when they failed to comply with crew instructions and the internet has backed them.

So the internet is also to blame for the digital lynch mob against United, and Munoz. Their ignorance of the facts, the law and their eagerness to believe Dao was just a innocent victim are all to blame as well.

Let me tell you what would likely have happened had Dao walked off the flight as he'd been asked. Dao would have received the compensation offfered. Chicago, being a hub for American, the agents would have likely looked to AA and rebooked him on that carrier at United’s expense. Failing that they might have looked to Midway, and seen if Southwest might have a flight, paid for ground transportation and that flight as well. How do I know this? Because that's how we handled bad situations. Going so far as to charter a bus to get people to airports to fly them. Because our contract says to take care of passengers and get them to their final destination. Dao in his juvenile actions never got to find out what the airline would do for him. But he did dare the police to take him to jail.

================================================

The above were Rayca's words, not mine.

And here is what WILL happens in the coming days, after all the hoopla died and UA properly embarrassed...

Passengers in that flight will come out and give their versions of what happened. Some, if not most, will be anonymous for fear of their lives being threatened by strangers, but they will be motivated by the truth of what happened. While they will not be kind to UA, neither will they be sympathetic to Dao. Already, there are people like Rayca who gave their unsympathetic opinions -- about both sides -- on what happened.

Dao will sue, will settle out of court, and the settlement will be sealed. Not because UA is embarrassed but to discourage copycats in future events. UA will change its policies, but the laws will remain as is, which gives not only UA but the entire industry the same situation and flexibility as before with each airline the option of changing its policy or not. There will be the usual 'sensitivity' training programs -- led by overpaid pseudo experts -- for airline employees, but nothing will really change at the macro level.

The reason I am with the professionals, but not necessarily with UA, is because I came from their industry -- aviation -- albeit from the military perspective. I fully understand what non-aircraft agents, like Mr Rayca, and aircraft agents like flight attendants (FA), have to put up with in their daily duties. The crew is literally responsible for hundreds of people for a few hrs, a short break, then the responsibility cycle begins again. With each passenger load, the same variations of human characters and personalities are in their collective lap.

dQc6yUY.jpg


THAT is how little is between you and death for that few hrs time span where the crew is responsible for your life. They cannot afford to have people like Dao on board. By that, I mean behaviors that Dao exhibited on the ground. In many ways, it was a good thing that Dao acted the way he did and got removed because if he misbehaves in flight, I can guarantee you that things will be much worse for Dao and literally no one will be sympathetic to him as he stews in his seat in misery while restrained for the flight.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-woman-gives-birth-on-turkish-airlines-flight
A unexpected passenger joined a Turkish Airlines flight when a woman went into labour and gave birth mid-flight.
Do you really think that an aircrew is happy for this kind of event, even a positive one like birth ?

NO, THEY ARE NOT. No matter what they do for the cameras and news reporters. A birth is a serious medical event that no one want to encounter in a metal tube traveling at several hundreds km/h in the air. No doctors are on board despite what the movies may and have portrayed.

If an aircrew does not want a birth in their aircraft, you think they want someone emotionally volatile like Dao ?
 
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Except I already refuted this view point, police don't have the right to slam your face into an arm rest because you were questioning why you were taken off a flight.

United was in the right, the cops were not.

Hi,

Actually---the cops should have refused to remove the guy---.

He was not being disruptive---he was not a threat---so cops had no right to touch him.

Next---Dr Dao had possession of the seat----possession is 9/10 of the law in favor of you---.

He was not provided with a written charter of the airline about his rights and the circumstances to leave the seat---.

After the settlement---airport police is going to look differently at offering assistance under cases like these where the passenger is not causing a disruption and is not a risk during a flight---.

It is also the failure of the Captain of the aircraft---it was his ship---it was his job to take care of the problem in a more professional manner---he failed at it in a terrible manner---.
 
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Actually---the cops should have refused to remove the guy---.
No, they did what they were supposed to do. Maybe heavyhanded, but they had their duties. The laws granted them that authority to remove him.

He was not being disruptive---he was not a threat---so cops had no right to touch him.
Yes, he was. Federal laws not only expects but demands that you obey the police. Refusal is a crime and by that nature, you ARE disruptive.

It is also the failure of the Captain of the aircraft---it was his ship---it was his job to take care of the problem in a more professional manner---he failed at it in a terrible manner---.
The captain was professional. None of the crew touched Dao because they were on the ground and at the gate. In that situation, the airport police is responsible for any 'manhandling' of anyone, if it comes to that. When the captain called the police, he did what was expected of his position and scope of authority.
 
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No, they did what they were supposed to do. Maybe heavyhanded, but they had their duties. The laws granted them that authority to remove him.


Yes, he was. Federal laws not only expects but demands that you obey the police. Refusal is a crime and by that nature, you ARE disruptive.


The captain was professional. None of the crew touched Dao because they were on the ground and at the gate. In that situation, the airport police is responsible for any 'manhandling' of anyone, if it comes to that. When the captain called the police, he did what was expected of his position and scope of authority.

Hi,

The police had no right to get involved in the first place---. So the order to obey is secondary---.

The city police dept is going to pay---United is going to pay---. The captain handled the situation very bad---rather terrible---.

Things are going to change after this incidence.
 
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There is no 'conspiracy' here. If the police have a warrant, they have the right to enter your house without your consent. If they have an arrest warrant, they have the right to take you to a special place without your consent. You have explained nothing.

First off, you aren't understanding what I am saying.

Second, they didn't have a warrant and just because you have one does not give rights to remove a passenger in such a way violent and brutal way.

Like I said, the police were in the wrong. I have already posted the laws which show the police were in the wrong. I don't care how the passenger resisting being pulled out his seat. The police should be fired and sued.

Done.
 
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The police had no right to get involved in the first place---. So the order to obey is secondary---.
What 'rights' does the police have is not the point, which is AUTHORITY.

Do they have the authority to act ? Yes, any police dept have such an authority. Once they are called, their actions have the imprimatur of law.

In fighting a fire, if your parked vehicle is in the way, even if you are parked LEGALLY, the firefighters have the authority to do damages to your car in the course of their duties IF there no other options. You will be compensated later, but at that dire moment, your LEGALLY parked car is of secondary importance. But if your car was parked ILLEGALLY, then it is up to the city to be generous or not.

Here is one such example of an illegally parked car -- private property -- that was damaged by the firefighters out of necessity...


No firefighter seek to damage anyone's vehicle, even if illegally parked, and they will work to reposition themselves and their equipment before they resort to the worst measures. Likewise, no police officers like to wrestle with anyone. The aircrew tried to persuade Dao. Then the police tried to persuade Dao. Out of four passengers, three agreed to the aircrew's persuasion. What does that tell you ? That means everyone involved, UA and police, acted properly BEFORE any physical altercation occurred.
 
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