Understanding Sexual Warfare in Kashmir: Prevalence, Consequences

[VCheng]

A whole load of repetitive accusations and counter-accusations. Irrelevant.

That just about sums up this thread (and about 99% of PDF.)

I'm outta here.

 

[Hellfire]

That just about sums up this thread (and about 99% of PDF.)

I'm outta here.

Exactly. Fat lot it did me fighting to prevent this thread .. got reddened for logic.

@jbgt90 Ah just saw you online. Will tag you into an interesting thread.

 

[SrNair]

As expected, the clueless Indians are trying to shoot the messenger

Sources and Links have been provided

This article was posted to start a discussion.

But no one is trying to discuss the content of the paper.

Usual rants and nonsense !!

Guys, this was posted in Seniors Cafe for a reason




@hellfire ....... Off topic

There is no content in this article .
All I can see here is some third grade yellow story with a lots of masala's.
So much for Yale's quality.

 

[M. Sarmad]

which paper? the citations are for basic data but he created a narrative out of it.... are you saying the narrative is impossible to challenge? nobody is saying there is no rape by indian forces but i want to know how he derived the conclusion that 'its used as policy by senior officers'

He has built a strong narrative that is well backed up. Read the paper carefully, sources and links have been provided.


He derived his conclusion from HRW (Human Rights Watch) report. HRW had argued that sexual violence is an organised tactic, endorsed privately by military higher-ups in the Indian Army to procure information and disempower the enemy


Many international organizations have reported on systematic use of sexual violence by the Indian Armed Forces in occupied Kashmir. Try to think objectively

There is nothing preventing Pakistan from taking the case to the International Criminal Court to prove its allegations, if there is much substance here.

These are not Pakistan's "allegations". These are reports by well reputed International Organizations like:


Amnesty International

Asia Watch

Human Right Watch

International Commission of Jurists

Physicians for Human Rights

Doctors without Borders

etc.


Even your own Journalists admit this:


"The term "rape of Kashmir", is no exaggeration. India's Hindu and Sikh forces have adopted a concerted policy of raping Muslim women which is designed to break the will of the Kashmiri resistance... The world community should immediately bring political and economic pressure on India to stop behaving like a Mongol." (Eric Margolis, Sunday Sun, April 12, 1992)



"The worst outrages by the CRPF (Central Reserve Police Force) have been frequent gang rapes of all women in Muslim villages, followed by the execution of the men". (Eric Margolis, The Ottawa Citizen, December 8, 1991)


As for "taking this matter to the International Court of Justice", what's the point ? Are there any examples where ICJ has served justice in such cases ?

I'm outta here.

You were not contributing anything useful to this thread anyway. So, Thanks

 

[Areesh]

That is why you are liked by me .... your inability to get the irony and sarcasm of a situation, the absurdity of starting a thread on a mere opinion and equal absurdity in rebutting it with wholly ridiculous opinion as posted by me; yet the propensity to surprise once in a month or two, with an admirably well thought out post which actually makes sense!

Keep at it. Just dropped in to acknowledge that you have not merited the ignore yet. Your value as a de-stressor and an amusing member is still good enough to be appreciated. My queries as to your status as a neglected middle child remain unanswered, perhaps I hit a nerve?

Cheers and carry on.

So it was all my inability... Hummm

So whose inability it was that you got several negative ratings for those posts?

Your value as a troll can't be hide with fancy words that you have used in your post.

I said half Pakistani, from his mothers side. His mother's name is Farial Sikander English, sounds like a proper Anglo name . His uncle's name is Khurram Shamser Lall, or Kyle as he likes to call himself on FB!

So you guys won't post anything from Najam Sethi or anyone else of those journalists and intellectual who are critical of Pakistani establishment.

After all they are full Pakistan unlike this guy who is half Pakistani.

 

[Roybot]

So you guys won't post anything from Najam Sethi or anyone else of those journalists and intellectual who are critical of Pakistani establishment.

After all they are full Pakistan unlike this guy who is half Pakistani.

You wanted proof of his Pakistani ancestry, and I proved it. Am not saying him being of Pakistani origin automatically makes his article garbage, but it does explain his bias.

 

[Roybot]

Still trying to shoot the messenger ???

Please tell us How many of the sources/works cited are "Pakistani":

Am not shooting the messenger, just trying to unmask this messenger. Just like you guys won't take an article about Balochistan written by an Indian or someone of Indian origin seriously, we can't take an article about Kashmir written by a Pakistani seriously.

Having said that, lets look at the sources cited by him which are specific to Kashmir, starting with the one by MSF and HRW.

De Jong, Kaz, and Saskia Van De Kam. “Conflict in the Indian Kashmir Valley II: Psychosocial Impact.” Conflict and Health 2 (2008). November 24, 2014. <http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1752-1505-2-11.pdf>.
https://ru.msf.org/sites/russia/files/migrated/KASHMIR_FINAL_VERSION,_221106.pdf

He used the report by MSF to make the most serious allegation that 12% of Kashmiri women have faced sexual violence, highest by a huge margin anywhere in the world! But what he forgets to mention, rather conveniently, is the explanation given in that very report itself for such high numbers. Let me quote it for you,

The respondents reported suffering direct violations of their modesty and/or the witnessing of such acts since 1989. It is possible that the actual prevalence is higher as many people regard it as inappropriate to talk about sex-related issues. The survey found much higher numbers of people whom themselves had experienced sexual violence in comparison to findings in other surveys and contexts: Sierra Leone (2%), Sri Lanka (2%), Chechnya (0%) and Ingushetia (0.1%).26 This may be due to the fact that people in Kashmir feel freer to discuss a “violation of their modesty” than civilians living in those other contexts. Another possibility is that the definition of sexual violence varies among populations; in Kashmir, a “violation of modesty” includes inappropriate touching, which may contribute to the increased prevalence of sexual violence reported here if the other populations in surveys define sexual violence only as the act of rape. These differences suggest that the assumption of a universal definition is at least doubtful. In future studies, developing more explicitly questions relating to the World Health Organization’s broader definition of sexual violence27 should be considered. This definition includes, for example, “inappropriate touching” as reported in the current survey.

Firstly, at the contrasting statements made by the authors. First they say the prevalence could be higher because people are ashamed to talk about it, then they go on to say that the number is so high because people in Kashmir feel free to discuss such issues! So which is it?

And then they doubt their own study and say Kashmiris also report a frisking or a pat down as a form of sexual violence, then obviously the number will be so high! Its laughable, just because its a report by MSF doesn't make it the absolute truth!

Human Rights Watch. “Rape in Kashmir: A Crime of War.” Human Rights Watch 5, no. 9 (1993): 1-5. Accessed November 24, 2014. <http://www.hrw.org/reports/1993/05/01/rape-kashmir>.
https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/INDIA935.PDF

Now coming to the HRW report, which Joseph English cited multiple times, and used it as a basis for his essay.

First thing first, the report was published in 1993, based on the events that may or may not have happened in 1989-1990. Violence was at the peak, a few crimes may have been committed by troops, unlike you guys we don't mind accepting our shortfalls. Having said that, there were rapes and murders committed by these terrorists groups as well, and has been mentioned in the same report by HRW, which once again Janab Joseph English forgot to mention, once again rather conveniently.

He used this dated HRW to make another serious allegation that

" An extensive Human Rights Watch (HRW) report argues that the Indian army’s sexual violence is an organized tactic, endorsed (privately, if not publicly) by military higher-ups."

Except that the HRW report makes no such inference

Using instances from 25 years ago, to prove a point today is as good as intellectual fraud. Not to forget that, these claims can just as well be propaganda to rile up the population for more violence and drum up the anti India feeling. These tactics are used around the world, and isn't exactly unheard of in conflict zones. So once again, not a good enough proof of Indian troop's excesses.

Think about it, if whole Kashmir stands up when a militant leader is gunned down, do you think they l sit and suffer in silence if 1 in 10 Kashmiri women were being subjected to sexual violence? No they won't.

Now coming to the rest of the works cited,

Manecksha, Freny. “Autonomy under Siege.” Himāl South Asian Review Magazine of Politics and Culture, January 7, 2014, 1-4.

Cited thrice ! Who the fook is Freny Manecksha, and what is Himal? Some leftist non descript rag
funded by Western countries and NGOs? Its like citing Tarek Fateh in a paper about Balochistan, people will find it hard to take such things seriously!

Cockburn, Cynthia. “War against Women: A Feminist Response to Genocide in Gujarat.” In From Where We Stand: War, Women’s Activism, and Feminist Analysis. London: Zed Books, 2007. <http://www.cynthiacockburn.org/Gujaratblog.pdf>.

Cited twice! I mean its a blog ffs, written by a nobody, who has most likely never even been to Kashmir or to India for that matter.

Menon, Nivedita. “Remembering Mass Rape and Torture by Indian Army in Kashmir.” South Asian Network for Secularism and Democracy. January 23, 2014. Accessed November 24, 2014. <http://sansad.org/remembering-mass-rape-and-torture-by-indian-army-in-kashmir/>.

The less said about this Leftist fanatic Nivedita Menon the better its like citing Hussain Haqqani or Tarek Fateh, and the "journal" Sansad, might as well be a blog, has zero credibility. Unless you are a Joseph English of course and are looking for just any reference material to justify your bias.

==================================================================================

Am surprised this poorly researched, poorly referenced essay found a place in this Yale undergraduate journal let alone get an "honorable mention". But then again when you are a Yale College Council member, you probably have some pull.

@PARIKRAMA @Levina @hellfire @Joe Shearer @SpArK @hinduguy @Robinhood Pandey @ranjeet @Nilgiri

 

[Hellfire]

@Roybot

Excellent rejoinder. I had posted a narrative for the same background in post #68 but got bored of challenging sheer idiocy of the rest of the paper as the author clearly has no clue and produced something which is a 'brain fart', a term I am now beginning to understand after reading this useless 'work', something that exemplifies the belief that to do well in US all you need to do is bash your home country/cry pails over a heap of fictitious nonsense. Europe is an example epitomising the same today.

But then you are posting to someone who has conviniently changed the history to justify posting such a ridiculous work as base of a thread and tried to buff up the credentials of the same by his posts at #46 and #50, negating accepted facts by concerned author who happened to be a Pakistani and a member of the PA.

A delusive idea. In kashmir no soldier moves with identity card or with shaved faces. In 90s whole towns were controlled by militants, who wore the same disruptive patterns as army. The coercion by militants can enable filing of fictitious cases. Imagine a whole village being raped by a unit and Indian Army and public not coming to know of it! Sheer crap, especially in todays time when cell phones allow recordings in a second.

Laughable delusions at best.

And ask the question what does Indian Army gain through rapes when it further antagonises the local populance? They will be hard pressed to give any rational answer or logical justification.

As if we are so stupid to give more propaganda material to Pakistan to kick our rears.

These kids .... no clue. You will find no service personnel from Pakistani side here. Because it DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!!!

A thread to troll and flame, then bait.

I bale out ..


Thanks again for an extremely well penned post.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@waz @Oscar @WAJsal @WebMaster @Manticore

With honesty I will ask, may I also start a thread in similar topic about Pakistan by a "well researched" scholar from any of the university in India with all the tagging of international reports, NGOs and people quotes and portray that my neighbouring country also suffers a similar or may be worse fate like what's mentioned in this thread.

I can extend it to other nations as well with due permission.

Indeed I am bit sad that this facade has been allowed here in the name of J&K and brownie points are being scored.

"Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones"

I am not saying such incidents have not occurred to any armed forces across the globe nor I am saying such instances may not have happened in IA.

If and when such instances have happened, no one goes Scot free in IA. This is a known fact and there is no way it can be twisted. It is the same reason PA or IA as a institute is respected by both countries masses bcz they are immaculate when it comes to principal of justice and for maintaining such a integrity.

But the blatant attempt here is indeed shocking and i am really feeling that this propaganda needs to be curbed at this instant.

Rest is your call. I would always advocate certain topics are kept out of PDF. This actually not only crossed the line but rather it's a sad attempt to score brownie points in the name of J&K...

 

[halupridol]

Am not shooting the messenger, just trying to unmask this messenger. Just like you guys won't take an article about Balochistan written by an Indian or someone of Indian origin seriously, we can't take an article about Kashmir written by a Pakistani seriously.

Having said that, lets look at the sources cited by him which are specific to Kashmir, starting with the one by MSF and HRW.




He used the report by MSF to make the most serious allegation that 12% of Kashmiri women have faced sexual violence, highest by a huge margin anywhere in the world! But what he forgets to mention, rather conveniently, is the explanation given in that very report itself for such high numbers. Let me quote it for you,



Firstly, at the contrasting statements made by the authors. First they say the prevalence could be higher because people are ashamed to talk about it, then they go on to say that the number is so high because people in Kashmir feel free to discuss such issues! So which is it?

And then they doubt their own study and say Kashmiris also report a frisking or a pat down as a form of sexual violence, then obviously the number will be so high! Its laughable, just because its a report by MSF doesn't make it the absolute truth!



Now coming to the HRW report, which Joseph English cited multiple times, and used it as a basis for his essay.

First thing first, the report was published in 1993, based on the events that may or may not have happened in 1989-1990. Violence was at the peak, a few crimes may have been committed by troops, unlike you guys we don't mind accepting our shortfalls. Having said that, there were rapes and murders committed by these terrorists groups as well, and has been mentioned in the same report by HRW, which once again Janab Joseph English forgot to mention, once again rather conveniently.

He used this dated HRW to make another serious allegation that Except that the HRW report makes no such inference

Using instances from 25 years ago, to prove a point today is as good as intellectual fraud. Not to forget that, these claims can just as well be propaganda to rile up the population for more violence and drum up the anti India feeling. These tactics are used around the world, and isn't exactly unheard of in conflict zones. So once again, not a good enough proof of Indian troop's excesses.

Think about it, if whole Kashmir stands up when a militant leader is gunned down, do you think they l sit and suffer in silence if 1 in 10 Kashmiri women were being subjected to sexual violence? No they won't.

Now coming to the rest of the works cited,



Cited thrice ! Who the fook is Freny Manecksha, and what is Himal? Some leftist non descript rag
funded by Western countries and NGOs? Its like citing Tarek Fateh in a paper about Balochistan, people will find it hard to take such things seriously!



Cited twice! I mean its a blog ffs, written by a nobody, who has most likely never even been to Kashmir or to India for that matter.




The less said about this Leftist fanatic Nivedita Menon the better its like citing Hussain Haqqani or Tarek Fateh, and the "journal" Sansad, might as well be a blog, has zero credibility. Unless you are a Joseph English of course and are looking for just any reference material to justify your bias.

==================================================================================

Am surprised this poorly researched, poorly referenced essay found a place in this Yale undergraduate journal let alone get an "honorable mention". But then again when you are a Yale College Council member, you probably have some pull.

@PARIKRAMA @Levina @hellfire @Joe Shearer @SpArK @hinduguy @Robinhood Pandey @ranjeet @Nilgiri

i read the op
its same old "pattern and narrative",,,,with the so called irrefutable "proofs" yet again.

 

[ranjeet]

One has to look into the booming "Illegal abortion" business in the valley viz a viz to HRW report to understand the sexual warfare in the valley


Illegal abortions in Kashmir valley has been on a steep rise ...

Illegal ‘abortion racket’ busted in Srinagar
"The Jammu and Kashmir police on Saturday claimed to have busted a illegal ‘abortion racket’, running in the city centre here from last 15-years."

http://kashmirdispatch.com/2011/06/11/illegal-abortion-racket-busted-in-srinagar/103861/


A Growing Menace
"There has been a significant rise in the number of unmarried girls visiting the hospitals, health centres and private clinics across Kashmir to abort the fetuses."

http://www.kashmirlife.net/a-growing-menace-13846/


Abortion kits become over the counter drug in Kashmir
"However this pill, which has been in the market for last 14 years now and was considered to be a boon to women with unwanted pregnancies, has over the years been used for late abortions."
http://risingkashmir.com/news/abortion-kits-become-over-the-counter-drug-in-kashmir

And here is what HRW report quoted in the OP has to say about increase in abortions in Kashmir.

"The fear of rape has reportedly been a factor in the flight of Muslim families from Kashmir. However, cases of rape by militant groups are difficult to investigate because most Kashmiris are reluctant to discuss abuses by the militants out of fear of reprisal. According to one report, the increasing number of rapes has led to an increase in abortions in Kashmir, resulting in one case in the murder of a doctor who complained about having to perform them. Militants from the Hezb-ul Mujahidin and Al Jehad reportedly accused the doctor of being an informer."

https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/INDIA935.PDF

 

[M. Sarmad]

Am not shooting the messenger, just trying to unmask this messenger. Just like you guys won't take an article about Balochistan written by an Indian or someone of Indian origin seriously, we can't take an article about Kashmir written by a Pakistani seriously.

Yes, you are shooting the Messenger. You claim that the author's mother was (supposedly) born in Pakistan which makes him unreliable and therefore this well-referenced paper should be outright rejected. I wonder what else is "Shooting the messenger" ...

He used the report by MSF to make the most serious allegation that 12% of Kashmiri women have faced sexual violence, highest by a huge margin anywhere in the world! But what he forgets to mention, rather conveniently, is the explanation given in that very report itself for such high numbers. Let me quote it for you,

Firstly, at the contrasting statements made by the authors. First they say the prevalence could be higher because people are ashamed to talk about it, then they go on to say that the number is so high because people in Kashmir feel free to discuss such issues! So which is it?

And then they doubt their own study and say Kashmiris also report a frisking or a pat down as a form of sexual violence, then obviously the number will be so high! Its laughable, just because its a report by MSF doesn't make it the absolute truth!

You have some serious comprehension issues. Or is it deliberate ignorance ? .. There is NO contradiction. Let me quote for you what the Report itself says (Page 15):

"For most Kashmiris, sexual violence is considered an inappropriate and difficult to discuss topic. Nevertheless, a rather high percentage of respondents (11.6%)- in comparison to other conflict areas ...

https://ru.msf.org/sites/russia/files/migrated/KASHMIR_FINAL_VERSION,_221106.pdf


So, what the authors are saying is that "In Kashmir prevalence of such acts could be higher because people are ashamed to talk about it as violation of modesty is considered very stigmatising for the women and family involved " ... but nevertheless a higher percentage of respondents talked about it compared to other conflict areas (like Chechnya, Sierra Leone etc.)

Do you get it now ? Genius

Now coming to the HRW report, which Joseph English cited multiple times, and used it as a basis for his essay.

He used this dated HRW to make another serious allegation that " An extensive Human Rights Watch (HRW) report argues that the Indian army’s sexual violence is an organized tactic, endorsed (privately, if not publicly) by military higher-ups."

Except that the HRW report makes no such inference

No, he didn't say that the 1993 Report by HRW argues that. There are other HRW Reports on Human Rights Violations in Kashmir as well. I will get back to you on this when I have time. (Don't worry I will respond to that in detail) For now:

"HRW argues that sexual violence is an organised tactic, endorsed privately by military higher-ups in the Indian Army to procure information and disempower the enemy":

http://labs.tribune.com.pk/sexual-warfare-indian-kashmir/

Using instances from 25 years ago, to prove a point today is as good as intellectual fraud.

From 25 Years ago ?? This is from 2015:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-kashmir-accused-human-rights-abuses-coverup



Indian security forces and police have been accused of the systematic use of torture. US officials first showed concern regarding the widespread use of torture in 2007 where they presented evidence to Indian diplomats. Human rights groups state that 150 top officers have participated in torture as well as sexual violence and that the Indian government was covering up such acts.

Cited thrice ! Who the fook is Freny Manecksha, and what is Himal? Some leftist non descript rag

Indians' Response so far:

1) The author of this paper is just a student, can't be taken Seriously

2) The author/OP is biased and this is just Propaganda

3) Author's Mother was supposedly born in Pakistan, therefore the author has zero credibility

4) Okay, Indian Army commits rape in Kashmir, but then what ? Pakistan Army did the same in Bangladesh

And now another gem

5) What kind of names are these ? Some Leftists, Western NGO's bla bla


You guys are hilarious



-------------------

And guess what ... This "absolutely useless" post has recieved 3 positive ratings already

@WebMaster @WAJsal @Slav Defence @Oscar @waz @Areesh

This is what I was talking about the other day. Indian Members are openly abusing the rating system, to promote their agendas. You really need to look into this matter

PDF is serving as a mouthpiece for Indian government false propaganda on Kashmir.

Indian members are encouraged to post BS

And Pakistani members are given negative ratings for stating well documented facts ...

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/post-ratings.292297/page-30#ixzz4I9FN1kLK

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Rape capital of the world

https://www.google.de/search?q=Rape...t=firefox-b&gws_rd=cr&ei=3yG8V_W3L8KQaJjaioAJ

I searched with 'Rape capital of the world'

therefore this well-referenced paper should be outright rejected

A 'paper' written today based on another published in 1993 is not a 'paper'. It is just good quality propaganda.

"For most Kashmiris, sexual violence is considered an inappropriate and difficult to discuss topic. Nevertheless, a rather high percentage of respondents (11.6%)- in comparison to other conflict areas ...

Even this is from 2006 publication of Medicine San Frontieres.
Also you need to read it full - '
To identify needs and support project planning,a survey consisting of 510 semi-structured interviews was executed in two violence-affected,rural districts in Indian administered Kashmir during mid-2005.'

510 samples in two rural districts.

Also, the villagers are not reporting to the police, but to the MSF. Here there is a tendency to over-report sexual offences, rather than under report them. Under reporting happens only when there are isolated cases and only when dealing with the police.

 

[M. Sarmad]

@SarthakGanguly ... Before jumping into an an ongoing discussion, don't you think you should try to read carefully what has already been posted on the thread ?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

@SarthakGanguly ... Before jumping into an an ongoing discussion, don't you think you should try to read carefully what has already been posted on the thread ?

Hmm. Just did. Some of the mistakes are too glaring to overlook. Don't know if they are deliberate or genuine mistakes. Quoting older versions of publications is an unforgivable one for instance. There are many others as well, as Roy mentioned before.

And this even does not begin to speak about the Islamist sexual violence at all.