U S says The Taliban are not Terrorists

[Irfan Baloch]

Now you are being stupid---Taliban had a national govt---they were running a nation---a state---neither did mukti bahini and nor the Balochis had a nation, a legitimate govt etc etc etc.

wait Khan Lala
Americans will have a revelation one day that LeT or Jamat Dawa are NOT terrorists.
life goes on and Americans also move on.

 

[Tameem]

Taliban Are Not Terrorists, or So Says the White House

Indeed, Post APS bonhomie against terrorists between Pak and Afghan Government and Armies for common & regional good is a worrisome prospects for US hegemonic attitude, A reality once dawn there would be no need of America in our midst.

In the same way, By default, US is all against a mature relationship between India and Pakistan. Unfortunately, here India couldn't replicates anyway near what Pakistan demonstrates & achieves after APS with Afghanistan commandedly.

 

[chauvunist]

Wonder where are the worshipper's of Murica and west aka "Indians"...They are yet to make n appearance here..

 

[Timur]

I think the history has it, we didn't try to mend in Taliban's business unless it was for Al-Qaeda. I think post 911, we had asked these Taliban nut cases to hand over OBL and they refused and refused. Result is right in front of them, their Al-Qaeda was decimated to ashes, OBL was captured after running away, from across the border and hundreds of leaders and operatives were killed.
Threat minimized. With Al-Qaeda gone, Taliban have no terrorist to protect.....so why waste US military's energy into something with minimal concern? Plus, the Pakistani's are taking care of Taliban issue and their side will soon be clean from the terrorism also.

The focus is now towards ISIS. The world needs to get rid of these crazy terrorists so it makes sense to focus on the real threat. Objectives achieved, perpetrators who attacked the US were sent to hell through hundreds of hell fire missiles. So time to move on and shift focus on ISIS, these crazy maniacs from ISIS in my opinion are crazier than Al-Qaeda.

thy did not refuse NOT!

they said give us some evidence then we give you him.. BUT YOU DID NOT GIVE ANY EVIDENCE you just wanted to to kill ppl

 

[Tameem]

Wonder where are the worshipper's of Murica and west aka "Indians"...They are yet to make n appearance here..

Even by Trolling, They cant defend the undefenceable

 

[RabzonKhan]

@Abu Zolfiqar.

Okay, this time I'm going to be more direct. You said “TTP has openly sworn allegiance to Abu Bakr al Baghdady”, I don't know why you said that ,but that was not true.

On the other hand, you are absolutely right, TTP has a global agenda and have well established links with IMU, Uyghur’s and Al Qaeda, no doubt TTP is a terrorist organization and needs to be eliminated.

But Afghan Taliban's also have links with all the terrorist organizations that you mentioned in-fact , their relationship goes back to the 90s when the Afghan Taliban had almost 90% of Afghanistan under their brutal control.

Afghan Taliban's had turned Afghanistan into a terrorist training camp, terrorists from around the world were not only sheltered by them, but were allowed to open terrorist training camps.

The list is long, but I will give you few examples:

We all know Al Qaeda had several terrorist training camps in Afghanistan.

When Tahir Yuldashev co-foundeder of Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan fled Uzbekistan, he was welcomed by the Taliban and allowed to open a terrorist training camp near the border with Uzbekistan.

ETIM (East Turkestan Islamic Movement ) and Chechen terrorist were also getting trainings in those camps.

Our own sectarian terrorists Sipah-e-Sahab and Lashkar-e-Jhangvi also had their own terrorist camps.

The bastard Taliban's had close relationship with LeJ founder Riaz Basra and gave him sanctuary in Afghanistan and had refused to hand him over, while he was wanted by the Pakistan government for the murder of hundreds of innocent Shias.

So now the question is, if the Afghan Taliban's had no global agenda then how come they were allowing all kinds of international terrorists to run their own terrorist training camps?

Why double standards?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

wait Khan Lala
Americans will have a revelation one day that LeT or Jamat Dawa are NOT terrorists.
life goes on and Americans also move on.

the Americans have no proof about JuD ties to terrorism

Mark Toner (Spokesperson, US Dept. of State) admitted this

 

[tarrar]

I wonder what the people of US must be thinking now because Taliban were portrayed as super villain in front of US people for years. So now this proves the US Govt. was only lying to the people for years & US army should be charged with war crimes.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Okay, this time I'm going to be more direct. You said “TTP has openly sworn allegiance to Abu Bakr al Baghdady”, I don't know why you said that ,but that was not true.

Pakistani terror group swears allegiance to ISIS

But Afghan Taliban's also have links with all the terrorist organizations that you mentioned in-fact , their relationship goes back to the 90s when the Afghan Taliban had almost 90% of Afghanistan under their brutal control.

they gave sanctuary to what the ISI, Saudi British US and other intelligence agencies call the "Afghan Arabs" i.e. al qaeda and like-minded groups....but there is a distinction between both entities. Brutal control, nobody doubts that. But we cant be blamed for that. The onus was on them to reform and change. Today, some have - but some have not. The challenge has been to get the reformists to cooperate with the newly elected government and that's something where all stakeholders need to agree to and be onboard with.

Afghan Taliban's had turned Afghanistan into a terrorist training camp, terrorists from around the world were not only sheltered by them, but were allowed to open terrorist training camps.

the world abandoned Afghanistan and allowed it to become a training camp.....ignore the socio-economic problems, the psychological effects of constant wars, ignore the total lack of investment in Afghanistan -- and you'll have an answer as to why Afghanistan became a lawless breeding ground for such.

however as i said before, the Islamic Emirate government (Afghan taleban) had no global agenda unlike the increasingly troublesome foreign fighters. I very CLEARLY said in my previous posts that the taleban made a stupid mistake not to expel them

When Tahir Yuldashev co-foundeder of Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan fled Uzbekistan, he was welcomed by the Taliban and allowed to open a terrorist training camp near the border with Uzbekistan.

Uzbekistan is a police state. He should not have been allowed to leave in the first place. Unfortunately the Uzbek government turned a blind eye - thinking that by allowing their jihadis to flee Uzbekistan that their hands were washed and they were absolved of any responsibility over their citizens

The bastard Taliban's had close relationship with LeJ founder Riaz Basra and gave him sanctuary in Afghanistan and had refused to hand him over, while he was wanted by the Pakistan government for the murder of hundreds of innocent Shias.

He fought in the anti soviet war but he came back to Pakistan. It was OUR responsibilty not Afghanistan's to ensure he be brought to book. As per sources he was killed by Pakistani security forces. Good riddance. May every LeJ supporter and financier receive a similar fate. Sectarian violence is a huge threat to the social and moral fabric of society in both countries.

So now the question is, if the Afghan Taliban's had no global agenda then how come they were allowing all kinds of international terrorists to run their own terrorist training camps?

They lost control over the international terrorists. Hence why Mullah Omar was furious about them, but unable and unwilling to do anything about them. Helplessness and ego at play.

 

[RabzonKhan]

@Abu Zolfiqar.

Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately I'm extremely busy today but I'll definitely reply in detail tomorrow.

Cheers.

 

[Steve781]

It's confusing as to just who are "the Taliban" and who aren't. In a BBC documentary one of the British commanders in Helmand claimed that the way they decided whether or not somebody was Taliban was whether or not they were shooting at them. This led to a situation where clans in dispute with one another would go to the British and claim that their opponents were Taliban

 

[RabzonKhan]

Pakistani terror group swears allegiance to ISIS

That's your source. First of all, it is opinionated article written by a clueless guy. Did you read the whole article? For you and others I'm posting some of the rubbish that man writes:

ISIS about to become a nuclear power?
“Aziz’s backing of ISIS puts Baghdadi and his Sunni radical caliphate in direct contact with the TTP, China’s Uighurs and the Afghan Taliban, which was created by the ISI.”

You were wrong just accept it and move on.

As I said, only a handful of TTP terrorists had pledge alliance to Daish and all of them were expelled from the TTP. The major factions led by Sajna and Fazlullah still consider Mullah Omer as their Ameerul Momineen:

Allegiance to IS: TTP disowns its spokesperson – The Express Tribune
October 21, 2014
PESHAWAR: Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) on Tuesday disowned its spokesperson Shahidullah Shahid along with five other top commanders a week after they pledged allegiance to the Islamic State (IS), or Da’ish

Zarqawi the link between Pakistani and Iraqi militants | ePaper | DAWN.COM

So far, none of the many Pakistani militant groups has openly come forward to pledge allegiance to IS.
Although three top militant `commanders` Maulvi Fazlullah, Hafiz Gul Bahadar, and Khan Said alias Sajna have accepted the existence of the IS, they are still loyal to Mullah Omar as their Ameerul Momineen.
Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan, Jamaat ul Ahrar, led by AbdulWali alias OmarKhalid Khurasani in a recent communiqué appealed to DAISH and Al Qaeda`s Al Nusrah to bury the hatchet and join hands to take on their common foes.

He and his group had in the past been pledging allegiance to Mullah Omar and so far he has not given any indication of changing his mind.

they gave sanctuary to what the ISI, Saudi British US and other intelligence agencies call the "Afghan Arabs" i.e. al qaeda and like-minded groups....but there is a distinction between both entities. Brutal control, nobody doubts that. But we cant be blamed for that. The onus was on them to reform and change. Today, some have - but some have not. The challenge has been to get the reformists to cooperate with the newly elected government and that's something where all stakeholders need to agree to and be onboard with.

“How do you negotiate with such a man? He was (and is still) caught in a time warp, detached from reality”. (In the Line of Fire, Pervez Musharraf, page 214)

No matter what we do. Mullah Omer is not going to change he is a madman. Reminds me of the saying: fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

the world abandoned Afghanistan and allowed it to become a training camp.....ignore the socio-economic problems, the psychological effects of constant wars, ignore the total lack of investment in Afghanistan -- and you'll have an answer as to why Afghanistan became a lawless breeding ground for such.

however as i said before, the Islamic Emirate government (Afghan taleban) had no global agenda unlike the increasingly troublesome foreign fighters. I very CLEARLY said in my previous posts that the taleban made a stupid mistake not to expel them

Good, you agree that under the Taliban Afghanistan had become a terrorist training camp.

It was the other way around. The Taliban's abandoned the world. They were more interested in their barbaric agenda then commerce.

Pakistan was very much interested in trading via Afghanistan with oil, gas, electricity and mineral rich newly independent central Asian countries, (Kazakstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan), referred as Commonwealth of Independent states (CIS). That was one of the main reason that Pakistan abandoned Gulbuddin Hekmatyar in favor of Taliban thinking that they will help us in trading with CIS.

In the beginning, we did some trade with Turkmenistan with the help of Taliban as they protected our convoys driving through Afghanistan hostile terrain. But unfortunately, that was a very short-lived arrangement.

The Taliban were more interested in butchering minorities, treating woman like trash and allowing international terrorists from around the world to set up their terrorist training camps.

The CIS were so horrified that all of them had to close their borders with Afghanistan; there was high alert and thousands of Russians soldiers were deployed to defend the borders from Taliban sponsored terrorists.

Thanks to our support to these barbarians we also became suspect in their eyes.

A great opportunity was lost, thanks to Taliban barbarians.

For more info please read, Taliban by Ahmed Rashid, second edition, from Page 26 to 30.

You also posted an article titled “Bush, Enron, UNOCAL and the Taliban”
by Tom Turnipseed, even though you posted it for different reason. But that shows at one time even the American were interested in doing business with Taliban's. In fact, there was a mega project proposal by Unocal and Saudi company Delta. They want to build a $2.7 billion pipeline from Turkmenistan, through Afganistan to Pakistan.

There was another very important oil company Bridas from Argentina wooing Taliban to build oil and gas pipelines from CIS through Afghanistan to Pakistan.

Even though there were many other problems hindering these projects but the main reason were the Taliban. These scumbags were more interested in exporting terrorism then in commerce.

Uzbekistan is a police state. He should not have been allowed to leave in the first place. Unfortunately the Uzbek government turned a blind eye - thinking that by allowing their jihadis to flee Uzbekistan that their hands were washed and they were absolved of any responsibility over their citizens

You are right, Uzbekistan, no doubt, is a police state. But come on, nobody can control hundred percent of their border. In fact, Uzbekistan had repeatedly asked the Taliban to hand over Tahir Yuldashev and Juma Namangani the leaders of IMU, but the Taliban's refused to extradite them.

He fought in the anti soviet war but he came back to Pakistan. It was OUR responsibilty not Afghanistan's to ensure he be brought to book. As per sources he was killed by Pakistani security forces. Good riddance. May every LeJ supporter and financier receive a similar fate. Sectarian violence is a huge threat to the social and moral fabric of society in both countries.

From your response I figured you don't know much about this issue. Though you are right he did take part in the Afghan war against the Soviet Union and then came back to Pakistan.

Riaz Basra used to be a member of terrorist Sipah-e-Sahaba, but after some disagreements, he formed his own terrorist organization Lashkar-e-Jhangvi he was involved in the killing of hundreds of shias and an Iranian diplomat he was arrested but was able to escape.

Taliban gave him shelter and he had his own terrorist training camp known as “Khalid bin Walid training camp in the Sarobi district near Kabul”. The Nawaz Sharif government asked the Taliban to hand him over, of course the Taliban refused.

Now, do you notice the pattern, Tahir Yuldashev (Uzbekistan), Osama (Saudi Arabia) and Riaz Basra, all of them were sheltered by the Taliban, they were wanted by their governments but Taliban refused to extradite them.

They lost control over the international terrorists. Hence why Mullah Omar was furious about them, but unable and unwilling to do anything about them. Helplessness and ego at play.

Clearly you're contradicting yourself, first you said “I very CLEARLY said in my previous posts that the taleban made a stupid mistake not to expel them” and now you are saying this.

So what is it, Taliban had no control, were unable and helpless? Or made “a stupid mistake not to expel them”?

First of all, Taliban defeated all internal enemies specially the powerful Northern Alliance, which were supported by Iran, Russia, some central Asian countries and India.

For more than 13 years the mighty NATO has not been able to completely defeat them.

And you want us to believe that they “lost control, were unable and helpless, come on now that makes no sense whatsoever.

Second, I don't think they are stupid they very well know what they are doing. They have a global terrorism agenda and they're very cleverly following it, plain and simple.

TTP has links with international terrorists organizations, you don't deny that Afghan Taliban also have links with the same terrorists but then you go into the nitty-gritty to defend their links by making all kinds of lame excuses, because the "world abandoned them", they "were powerless" and whatnot.

Let me wrap this by quoting Musharraf again:

“The impact of 9/11 was lost on Mullah Omar and the Taliban. “It was God's punishment for the injustices against Muslims,” Mullah Omar said. God was on their side and Osama bin Laden was a Superman”.

If it walks like a Terrorist, quacks like a Terrorist, looks like a Terrorist, it must be a Terrorist!

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

im sorry... i dont have the energy or time to reply to needlessly long essays but to address your points:

You were wrong just accept it and move on.

anyone with a pea-sized brain can do an internet search, im sorry you place so much 'responsibility' on me

No matter what we do. Mullah Omer is not going to change he is a madman. Reminds me of the saying: fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

he's more of a mythical figure now....and thanks for sharing cliches we can all agree to

Good, you agree that under the Taliban Afghanistan had become a terrorist training camp.

I'm saying that Afghanistan has been in a constant state of war and in wars - civil and otherwise, there are sides/factions. Mullah Omar was unable or unwilling to expel the 'Afghan Arabs'/Chechens/foreign al qaeda and like-minded fighters even if he wanted them gone.

It was the other way around. The Taliban's abandoned the world. They were more interested in their barbaric agenda then commerce.

the world abandoned Afghanistan, and you probably werent even alive during the conflict

Pakistan was very much interested in trading via Afghanistan with oil, gas, electricity and mineral rich newly independent central Asian countries, (Kazakstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan), referred as Commonwealth of Independent states (CIS). That was one of the main reason that Pakistan abandoned Gulbuddin Hekmatyar in favor of Taliban thinking that they will help us in trading with CIS.

Pakistan abandoned him b/c he became a hindrance vis-a-vis uniting factions and he became a liability in general. He is part of the reason for the civil war worsening in Afghanistan POST soviet withdrawal.

The Taliban were more interested in butchering minorities, treating woman like trash and allowing international terrorists from around the world to set up their terrorist training camps.

their human rights record was abysmal and hopefully today in 2015 they will have mended their ways.....they werent worse than the northern alliance as far as human rights or terrorism are concerned

Thanks to our support to these barbarians we also became suspect in their eyes.

whose eyes?

You are right, Uzbekistan, no doubt, is a police state. But come on, nobody can control hundred percent of their border. In fact, Uzbekistan had repeatedly asked the Taliban to hand over Tahir Yuldashev and Juma Namangani the leaders of IMU, but the Taliban's refused to extradite them.

exactly....so at least finally you understand a piece of the puzzle and the complexities involved

From your response I figured you don't know much about this issue. Though you are right he did take part in the Afghan war against the Soviet Union and then came back to Pakistan.

Kid - I was alive during that war and I hail from a tribal area that is surrounded by Afghanistan on 3 sides and was affected by the events leading UP to the war, during the war and more pressingly - AFTER the war. You havent seen what I seen and you dont know what I know. So dont even attempt to go there. You're probably half my age.

Riaz Basra used to be a member of terrorist Sipah-e-Sahaba, but after some disagreements, he formed his own terrorist organization Lashkar-e-Jhangvi he was involved in the killing of hundreds of shias and an Iranian diplomat he was arrested but was able to escape. Taliban gave him shelter and he had his own terrorist training camp known as “Khalid bin Walid training camp in the Sarobi district near Kabul”. The Nawaz Sharif government asked the Taliban to hand him over, of course the Taliban refused.

they've killed Shiias, Sunnis, and other groups..these organizations like LeJ, Harakat ul Anar (which was based near Khost) are scums of the earth....again - it's because of Mullah Omar's stubborn nature and poor judgement that these people were allowed there

Clearly you're contradicting yourself, first you said “I very CLEARLY said in my previous posts that the taleban made a stupid mistake not to expel them” and now you are saying this.

Garbage. Re-read the posts

He should have taken the initiative. If you can't connect dots, not my problem. I couldnt have been clearer.

And you want us to believe that they “lost control, were unable and helpless, come on now that makes no sense whatsoever.

They were not hungry to go to war against people they fought alongside - because of the whole "Ummah" notion they were not eager to kill them or take action against them. It was a leadership decision and there was no proper leadership on their part.



[qupte]TTP has links with international terrorists organizations, you don't deny that Afghan Taliban also have links with the same terrorists but then you go into the nitty-gritty to defend their links by making all kinds of lame excuses, because the "world abandoned them", they "were powerless" and whatnot.[/quote]

the Afghan taleban has no global agenda...they were Afghanistan-centric and still are to this day

and you must be -- in absence of better words -- STUPID to think I am "defending" them. It doesnt even merit a response

If it walks like a Terrorist, quacks like a Terrorist, looks like a Terrorist, it must be a Terrorist!

Good....you should write a book on the subject since you seem to be an expert of quacking yourself

 

[RabzonKhan]

@Abu Zolfiqar

Name calling is a kind of ad hominem attack. Attack the arguer and not the argument.

"If you can't answer a man's argument, all is not lost; you can still call him vile names."
— Elbert Hubbard

Debate/exchange of opinions is over, thanks for your time.

Cheers.