Turkish Air Defence Programs

[KediKesenFare3]

@Bubblegum Crisis
I am neither a racist nor a nationalist. I love and respect the Saudi people for theire culture, literature and art. Nevertheless, I have great ideological and religious problems with Wahhabism. Are you a Wahhabi?
edit: We should continue the discussion in Cay Bahcesi.

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

@Bubblegum Crisis
I am neither a racist nor a nationalist. I love and respect the Saudi people for theire culture, literature and art. Nevertheless, I have great ideological and religious problems with Wahhabism. Are you a Wahhabi?

Fanatic (I hate them ) ? No !!!

A simple Sunni believer.

 

[Ceri]

What's this?

On another note, what's going on with our long range missile defense system? Russia has stationed their s-400 on our borders we stilll possess short range air defense. Tender with China broken, no deal with Russia obviously, patriots been removed Germany Pulls Patriot Systems From Turkey

What is the current plan with long range missile defense? We got the Hisar's with a max range of 40 km. and are still currently in subsytem test phase, hopefully they will be delivered to military in 2017 IDEF 2015: Aselsan displays Hisar air defence systems | IHS Jane's 360

 

[UkroTurk]

What's this?

On another note, what's going on with our long range missile defense system? Russia has stationed their s-400 on our borders we stilll possess short range air defense. Tender with China broken, no deal with Russia obviously, patriots been removed Germany Pulls Patriot Systems From Turkey

What is the current plan with long range missile defense? We got the Hisar's with a max range of 40 km. and are still currently in subsytem test phase, hopefully they will be delivered to military in 2017 IDEF 2015: Aselsan displays Hisar air defence systems | IHS Jane's 360

May be, we should give some presents to Turkmens or FreeSyrianArmy
Can Turkey find some old russian system and supply Turkmens or FSA?

 

[Timur]

May be, we should give some presents to Turkmens or FreeSyrianArmy
Can Turkey find some old russian system and supply Turkmens or FSA?

dont we have some stinger

 

[UkroTurk]

Russians fighters (bombers) bomb from high altitude.
They dont fly near the ground. They use SU-35 bombers.

Stinger is not able to hit high altittude flying objects like a fighters.
Stinger was produced against helicopters maximum 1000-2000km altitude.
And Stinger cannot hit fast objects.

Even HISAR-A can not hit SU-35 at 10.000 meters altitude.
May be HISAR-O can hit but i am afraid not.

In order to hit at 10000m they need a radar and more powerfull rocket engine.
Minumum 9K37 Buk, Patriots can hit 10km altitude.

 

[Ceri]

Russians fighters (bombers) bomb from high altitude.
They dont fly near the ground. They use SU-35 bombers.

Stinger is not able to hit high altittude flying objects like a fighters.
Stinger was produced against helicopters maximum 1000-2000km altitude.
And Stinger cannot hit fast objects.

Even HISAR-A can not hit SU-35 at 10.000 meters altitude.
May be HISAR-O can hit but i am afraid not.

In order to hit at 10000m they need a radar and more powerfull rocket engine.
Minumum 9K37 Buk, Patriots can hit 10km altitude.

It seems that currently all our ground to air inventory consists of anti-air guns, that can only take down helicopters. The only effective anti air that can actually take down Sukhoi's are amraam missiles

 

[UkroTurk]

I've forgatten writing HAWK systems. We have the HAWK systems . They are comparable withthe BUK systems.
HAWK can hit the targets up to 20.ooo meters altitude.

Also we have frigates with SM1 missiles .

HAWK systems are old. The USA has a lot of old HAWK systems.

Why doesnt KSA support Free Syrian Army ? Nowadays YPG works with Russia.
YPG and RF are allies.
USA throught the KSA might support the other Syrian oppositions against Russia.
HAWK systems can hit Russian fighters.

 

[GOKHAN TAYLAN]

nobody knows hisar a and o missiles range and altitudes =)

 

[UkroTurk]

Roketsan shared spesification of system. There is no information about altitude. There is only range.
In some web sites is written HISAR-O has 10000meters altitude.
http://www.roketsan.com.tr/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/HISAR-TR-TMMZ2015-PR.pdf


There is a lot of important factors for the ground the air missilese.
At the high altitude Atmosferic temperature and pressure effect very much.
Stabilizated long time terminal velocity also need.
Speed and range need.
After the mach speed heating is a big problem. Air defence rockets have a 2-3 mach speed.

Although ordinary, simple artillery Grad 122mm rocket can reach 7500m apogee.
Isreli 160mm LAR artilery rocket can reach 16.000m apogee.
300mm smerch can reach 25.000m
220mm uragan or Turkish Toros can reach 18.ooom.
The WS-1 rocket reaches a maximum speed of Mach 4.2 and the maximum flight altitude is 30km
(Not in vertical launching.)

This rocket is made for high altitude. It could reach to 140.000 feet. But this rocket very slow for the intercapting fighter.

 

[cabatli_53]

Roketsan shared spesification of system. There is no information about altitude. There is only range.
In some web sites is written HISAR-O has 10000meters altitude.
http://www.roketsan.com.tr/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/HISAR-TR-TMMZ2015-PR.pdf


There is a lot of important factors for the ground the air missilese.
At the high altitude Atmosferic temperature and pressure effect very much.
Stabilizated long time terminal velocity also need.
Speed and range need.
After the mach speed heating is a big problem. Air defence rockets have a 2-3 mach speed.

Although ordinary, simple artillery Grad 122mm rocket can reach 7500m apogee.
Isreli 160mm LAR artilery rocket can reach 16.000m apogee.
300mm smerch can reach 25.000m
220mm uragan or Turkish Toros can reach 18.ooom.
The WS-1 rocket reaches a maximum speed of Mach 4.2 and the maximum flight altitude is 30km
(Not in vertical launching.)

This rocket is made for high altitude. It could reach to 140.000 feet. But this rocket very slow for the intercapting fighter.

You should be skeptical If the subject is the range of such strategic projects. Roketsan will never reveal the actual performance of Hisar family but You can observe the rising range scales of brochures Although not-dummy Hisar missile prototypes do not commence trials against fast flying target drones.


First brochure:
Hisar-A: 10km range, 5km altitude
Hisar-O: 16km range, 10km altitude

6km differences on range, 5km differences on altitude performance


Current brochure:
Hisar-A: 15km range, No altitude
Hisar-O: 25km range, No altitude

10km differences on range



Those parameters will be risen until 40km range, 20km altitude for Hisar-O and 20km range and 10km altitude for Hisar-A.

Otherwise, No one believe Hisar missiles using state of art dual pulse motor and fuel technology, will stay behind of Mica VL Low Altitude (11km altitude) and Iris-T SL Medium Altitude (20km altitude) missile systems. What Roketsan/Aselsan does is to play the figures on brochures but In field, There will be no Su-35 or any other aircraft which will have a chance If They are intercepted by Hisar-O. We are talking about national missile systems that will protect the future of Turkish skies. Hisar missiles and targeted performances are not as simple as we thought on forum pages.

Hisar-A

That's the size of Hisar-A. We are not talking about a missile which has a size of Sidewinter..

 

[Some1LikeU]

I think Russian bombers getting lower at the time that they use classical bombs (not guided). Cause of guided bombs expensive and Russians positioning systems are not good, so they must use lower altitude for successful otherwise they cant bomd succesfully targets on high altitude. İts my opinion..

 

[UkroTurk]

I think Russian bombers getting lower at the time that they use classical bombs (not guided). Cause of guided bombs expensive and Russians positioning systems are not good, so they must use lower altitude for successful otherwise they cant bomd succesfully targets on high altitude. İts my opinion..

I wonder also what the ground attacks protocols , tactis are.
Of course TurAF is watching and recording while Russians are bombing.
I agree with you,I think from 10.000 meter altitude pilot or bomber cant lock the target with unguided , conservative bombs.. How can they reach the target from the 10.000?Very Gooood glases are needed.)

How did the USAF send B1 bomber on the ISIS? Big, expensive plane. B1 wasnt flying at high altitude. ISIS has Stinger's and Igla's.

 

[Oublious]

I wonder also what the ground attacks protocols , tactis are.
Of course TurAF is watching and recording while Russians are bombing.
I agree with you,I think from 10.000 meter altitude pilot or bomber cant lock the target with unguided , conservative bombs.. How can they reach the target from the 10.000?Very Gooood glases are needed.)

How did the USAF send B1 bomber on the ISIS? Big, expensive plane. B1 wasnt flying at high altitude. ISIS has Stinger's and Igla's.

Ruskies don't have smart bombs, ther smart bombs are stil dumb bombs. And ther targeting pod is so fuked up, they don't have. Ther customers are buying Targetin Pods from Israel, so they are not able to hit.

 

[[TR]AHMET]

Ruskies don't have smart bombs, ther smart bombs are stil dumb bombs. And ther targeting pod is so fuked up, they don't have. Ther customers are buying Targetin Pods from Israel, so they are not able to hit.

Our T155 Firtina artilerry effective than their sukhoi at Syria what a shame for teddy bear Russia