Turkey’s Defense Spending Hike Highlights Modernization

[TheMightyBender]

Turkey’s Defense Spending Hike Highlights Modernization
Turkey will receive its first F-35 Joint Strike Fighter in 2018
Dec 14, 2017Tony Osborne | Aviation Week & Space Technology

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Eighteen months after a failed coup sent ripples through both the country and its armed forces, Turkey’s relations with its Western NATO allies have cooled significantly. While Ankara remains an important strategic partner of the North Atlantic alliance, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s April constitutional referendum to further strengthen his political power and the country’s recent rapprochement with Russia have alarmed NATO officials. They are particularly concerned ..

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[TheMightyBender]

1- does anyone have access to aviationweek locked content?
2- I thought F-35 was scheduled for delivery in 2019 not 18. Am i mistaken?

 

[Pax Ottomana]

1- does anyone have access to aviationweek locked content?
2- I thought F-35 was scheduled for delivery in 2019 not 18. Am i mistaken?

1. Even if someone did, it's probably against their end-user TOS to post articles that are behind a pay wall publicly. I did that a few times for a number of Stratfor articles and the forum I posted in got a DMCA copyright complaint and was forced to delete them.

2. I think it's always been 2018 for the initial 2 LRIP-10 orders. Maybe you're confusing it with the S-400s?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ivery-in-2018-plans-more-orders-idUSKCN12S2G1

But the US-Turkey brawl over PKK/YPG and FETO may push it to 2019 or later or never.

 

[TheMightyBender]

1. Even if someone did, it's probably against their end-user TOS to post articles that are behind a pay wall publicly. I did that a few times for a number of Stratfor articles and the forum I posted in got a DMCA copyright complaint and was forced to delete them.

2. I think it's always been 2018 for the initial 2 LRIP-10 orders. Maybe you're confusing it with the S-400s?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ivery-in-2018-plans-more-orders-idUSKCN12S2G1

But the US-Turkey brawl over PKK/YPG and FETO may push it to 2019 or later or never.

I think that news is from last year. I think it was later delayed by one more year: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-in-2019-defense-undersecretary-idUSKBN1571CU

I even found this discussion on pdf: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/turkey-to-take-delivery-its-first-f-35-fighter-jets-in-2019.474000/

btw, about 1.: can they catch you even if you post screenshots?

 

[OguzSenturk]

Turkey's first 2 F-35 will be operational in 2018, will stay in USA for training Turkish pilots purpose, will be sent to Turkey in 2019.

 

[Pax Ottomana]

I think that news is from last year. I think it was later delayed by one more year: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-in-2019-defense-undersecretary-idUSKBN1571CU

I even found this discussion on pdf: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/turkey-to-take-delivery-its-first-f-35-fighter-jets-in-2019.474000/

Right on. To be honest, I think we should strategically prepare for the eventuality that we don't receive any F-35s at all. US isn't even issuing visas to Turks, I just don't see them delivering us any F-35s. I mean, U.S. national security advisor Gen. McMaster accused Turkey of being a primary supporter of "radical islamist terrorism" just a couple days ago. US is becoming more and more hostile every passing day.

 

[TheMightyBender]

Right on. To be honest, I think we should strategically prepare for the eventuality that we don't receive any F-35s at all. US isn't even issuing visas to Turks, I just don't see them delivering us any F-35s. I mean, U.S. national security advisor Gen. McMaster accused Turkey of being a primary supporter of "radical islamist terrorism" just a couple days ago. US is becoming more and more hostile every passing day.

I completely agree. I had no doubt about F35s until the visa spat. But now I don't see it being delivered unless there is some radical shift in our relations.
But let me ask you something. Assuming our ongoing projects succeed on time, how much do we need the F35s?

We will have TFX for air superiority, strike and stealth missions, Hurjet for ground attack, Hurkus for COIN, and multiple drones for low level bombing and surveillance.

You see, to me it sounds like with these projects we have been preparing for this all along. It always confused me how and why we are going to buy 250+ TFX, 120+ F35, 50-100 Hurjet (probably), ??? Hurkus C and close to 200 strategic drones.

What is your take on this?

 

[Pax Ottomana]

I completely agree. I had no doubt about F35s until the visa spat. But now I don't see it being delivered unless there is some radical shift in our relations.
But let me ask you something. Assuming our ongoing projects succeed on time, how much do we need the F35s?

We will have TFX for air superiority, strike and stealth missions, Hurjet for ground attack, Hurkus for COIN, and multiple drones for low level bombing and surveillance.

You see, to me it sounds like with these projects we have been preparing for this all along. It always confused me how and why we are going to buy 250+ TFX, 120+ F35, 50-100 Hurjet (probably), ??? Hurkus C and close to 200 strategic drones.

What is your take on this?

In my opinion we certainly don't have to have the F-35 in order to safeguard Turkey's national security. if that's what you're asking. It's essentially a low-observable, but expensive and vulnerable bomb truck. We can fill the same role with a mix of other solutions. We always "wanted it" more than we "needed it". We joined the JSF program as a Level 3 partner because it was sort of the hip thing to do at the time.

Of course back then the US wasn't so straight with the Turkish public regarding their plans with an Independent Northern Iraq, Terrorist-Corrdior Northern Syria, PKK/YPG working hand in hand with US special forces, moving their embassy to Jerusalem or using the Gulenists/FETO for controlling Ankara as they please. We had some doubts and saw some early signs, yes, but always wanted to believe that decades of partnership and alliance couldn't be sacrificed. Well, now we know better. Things have changed and as a sovereign country with our own national aspirations and growing capabilities, we must continuously reevaluate.

As for the F-35, there an outcome that's worse than Turkey not receiving any planes. It is Turkey giving the Americans a lot of money and then receiving "doctored" F-35s that we cannot reliably use; especially when Turkish interests collide with those of the US, which seems to happen quite often lately. I'd much rather see our hard earned money spent on weapons that we can freely use whatever the conflict zone or the enemy may be. No restrictions, no strings attached.

 

[TheMightyBender]

In my opinion we certainly don't have to have the F-35 in order to safeguard Turkey's national security. if that's what you're asking. It's essentially a low-observable, but expensive and vulnerable bomb truck. We can fill the same role with a mix of other solutions. We always "wanted it" more than we "needed it". We joined the JSF program as a Level 3 partner because it was sort of the hip thing to do at the time.

Of course back then the US wasn't so straight with the Turkish public regarding their plans with an Independent Northern Iraq, Terrorist-Corrdior Northern Syria, PKK/YPG working hand in hand with US special forces, moving their embassy to Jerusalem or using the Gulenists/FETO for controlling Ankara as they please. We had some doubts and saw some early signs, yes, but always wanted to believe that decades of partnership and alliance couldn't be sacrificed. Well, now we know better. Things have changed and as a sovereign country with our own national aspirations and growing capabilities, we must continuously reevaluate.

As for the F-35, there an outcome that's worse than Turkey not receiving any planes. It is Turkey giving the Americans a lot of money and then receiving "doctored" F-35s that we cannot reliably use; especially when Turkish interests collide with those of the US, which seems to happen quite often lately. I'd much rather see our hard earned money spent on weapons that we can freely use whatever the conflict zone or the enemy may be. No restrictions, no strings attached.

Exactly. A while back when I mentioned that we don't need this F35 I got a serious backlash from this forum. But if you think about it it looks like the government as forseen what is going to happen and planned accordingly. And yes, I forgot to mention the last part. Even if the F35 is the best airplane in the world what is it good for if we cannot control it freely, especially considering the fact that we will be needing to use it against the wishes of the USA.

 

[Pax Ottomana]

Exactly. A while back when I mentioned that we don't need this F35 I got a serious backlash from this forum. But if you think about it it looks like the government as forseen what is going to happen and planned accordingly. And yes, I forgot to mention the last part. Even if the F35 is the best airplane in the world what is it good for if we cannot control it freely, especially considering the fact that we will be needing to use it against the wishes of the USA.

Turkey should perhaps even CANCEL its standing orders for the F-35. Given the latest developments and US' outright hostile behavior against Turkey, boycotting these bigoted pricks is the right thing to do. We'll find other, more reliable partners and divert more money towards our own indigenous products. Turkey should also veto all major pro-US decisions in NATO.

 

[YoungTurk01]

1- does anyone have access to aviationweek locked content?
2- I thought F-35 was scheduled for delivery in 2019 not 18. Am i mistaken?

What I know is delivery date is 18 however training etc which would pushing that date to 19

 

[OguzSenturk]

But the US-Turkey brawl over PKK/YPG and FETO may push it to 2019 or later or never.

They will be delivered to Turkish Airforce in 2018, but will stay in US for one year in order to train our pilots, probably they will be stationed in Arizona, Luke Airforce Base. Those first two F35s will be sent to Turkey after the training, in 2019.

But in 2019, our second order (4 F35s) will also be ready, and i didnt read anywhere about if they will stay in US or not. I expect 6 F35s to be delivered in 2019.

 

[Mr.Department]

What I know is delivery date is 18 however training etc which would pushing that date to 19

We will get LRIP 10 and 11 make F-35, for cost and optimization reasons.