Turkey Sends A Message To YPG

[xenon54 out]

Well, except ISIS, which isn't exactly a 'country', but seems to have full protection of Turkish forces at western parts of Euphrates. This is not what I am saying, it's what Turkish PM just admitted.

I know your bias wont tolerate any other reality but Turkey wont accept another base for pkk on its border, whether its occupied by isis, Assad, or fsa.

 

[Serpentine]

I know your bias wont tolerate any other reality but Turkey wont accept another base for pkk on its border, whether its occupied by isis, Assad, or fsa.

I think if I repeat it another hundred times, you will all ignore it. I just said what Turkish PM said: "If you attack ISIS controlled areas, we will attack you."

You don't want pkk on your borders? Fine I believe that and it's true, but please don't try to sell me that 'Turkey won't tolerate ISIS on border bla bla' nonsense. Turkey is tolerating ISIS on its borders so good and even better than how Nusra front (Al-Qaeda) is tolerating ISIS on its 'frontlines'. When you try to sell a lie as truth, some people would not accept that for sure.

ISIS has killed more Turkish civilians in past few months than PKK has killed in past year, so saying that there is simply 'no excuse' to attack ISIS is just too naive. Yes there is the excuse and it is perfectly justified, but there is no 'will', obviously.

If ISIS had killed 150 Iranians in Tehran, we would literally put away all the political considerations and introduce them to hell directly. There are various reasons that Iran doesn't get heavily involved in Iraq, one of them is the excuse by some terrorist sympathizers that 'Oh, Iran is attacking ISIS, Sunnis are being sidelined by Shias'. But if they attack inside Iran's soil, all the excuses will go away and our hands won't be tied anymore.

 

[xenon54 out]

I think if I repeat it another hundred times, you will all ignore it. I just said what Turkish PM said: "If you attack ISIS controlled areas, we will attack you."

You don't want pkk on your borders? Fine I believe that and it's true, but please don't try to sell me that 'Turkey won't tolerate ISIS on border bla bla' nonsense. Turkey is tolerating ISIS on its borders so good and even better than how Nusra front (Al-Qaeda) is tolerating ISIS on its 'frontlines'. When you try to sell a lie as truth, some people would not accept that for sure.

Have i said we wont tolerate isis on our borders, no i didnt!
We are obviously doing it and guess what, its because we are having another hot phase with pkk that cant get enough banana like a horny hoe, so as you can see we are busy at the moment while trying to keep the balance of a investment and industry based economy, we arent a oil rich state that can afford adventures on the cost of investments.

And keep your Iran would do this or that, Iran obviously made huge mistakes in the past, so i dont think Iranian exsample is very appreciated here.

 

[Serpentine]

Have i said we wont tolerate isis on our borders, no i didnt!
We are obviously doing it and guess what, its because we are having another hot phase with pkk that cant get enough banana like a horny hoe, so as you can see we are busy at the moment while trying to keep the balance of a investment and industry based economy, we arent a oil rich state that can afford adventures on the cost of investments.

It was more of a general answer to all Turkish members on this thread that had quoted me, you are right, perhaps I should have quoted them too, not all of it was directed to you. Sorry for that.

And keep your Iran would do this or that, Iran obviously made huge mistakes in the past, so i dont think Iranian example is very appreciated here.

Never said we don't have mistakes, yes we do have lots of them, doesn't mean I can't talk about a possible future scenario in which ISIS launches terror attacks inside Iran.

BTW, clashes with PKK started only few months ago, Turkey has been tolerating ISIS since the first day they actually shared a border with Turkey, which is much before that.

 

[xenon54 out]

Never said we don't have mistakes, yes we do have lots of them, doesn't mean I can't talk about a possible future scenario in which ISIS launches terror attacks inside Iran.

Every country has its own burden, that Iran would go full berzerk because of one or two terrorist attacks (which i btw dont think so) doesnt apply to Turkey, who says it will be successful? Who says Iran wont burry billions in a fight that it cant win which will harm the country more than isis itself?
Being emotional on such decisions is counter productive.

And that we didnt attack isis from the beginning still applies to my current argument, firstly not to meddle in a fight that would surely harm us and secondly having our arch enemy (pkk) ready to attack and able to use use the opportunity in a possible war with isis.
There are several other reasons for Turkey not to attack isis, im quite sure you are smart enough to figure it out.

Look Serpi i really dont enjoy talking agressive to you, i enjoy our nice conversations much more but you are really pushing it sometimes.

 

[Orez]

We must have a total war with PKK to hope to win.
What logic is to bomb them in Irak but no in Syria ? Worst what logic is to bomb them if PKK's brother (Demirtas) can make PKK propaganda in Turkey ?

Total war against PKK and all his brother organisation.

 

[LegionnairE]

We must have a total war with PKK to hope to win.
What logic is to bomb them in Irak but no in Syria ? Worst what logic is to bomb them if PKK's brother (Demirtas) can make PKK propaganda in Turkey ?

Total war against PKK and all his brother organisation.

because Turkish administration doesn't want a military victory...

Only point of the military operations is to provide comfort to the public

sad but true!

 

[AugenBlick]

This is History repeating itself ......
Earlier in July I had written

Pakistanization of turkey begins...............

Which I went on to detail:

Well in the 80s Pak supported the Taliban against USSR and channeled jihadis in Afghanistan..... 2 decades later they have become ultra radicalized (can't use God in place of allah ) , Ultra feudal (Women being stoned in broad daylight in front of a court) and Ultra backward (Can't Manufacture an IC engine).
To see their lament read this thread
Pakistan before 90s (Coloured Photos)

This is the Afghan Jihad all over again. Using Islam(or Islamists ) to crush nationalism in ethnic diverse factions.
Much Water has passed under the Euphrates since then and My theory seems to be gaining traction. Some Signs of Pakistanization:
Blast in Turkey , 31 Dead , 100+ Wounded.
Bomb blasts in Turkey: at-least 95 killed....
Huge bomb blast hits activists in Turkey, at least 28 killed, near 100 wouded
Powerful blasts rock Ankara peace rally, at least 30 killed, 126 injured
Turkey attack spillover of IS war on Kurds: experts

 

[Orez]

Turkey's situation will never be compared to Pakistan.

PKK was always founded by other country like the URSS during the cold war (and this why PKK is comunist) and yet they have never managed to create a civil war between the Turks and Kurds.
We lost 1000 people a years because of PKK, and we lost 8000 people because of traffic accident.....if the state want to save live don't invest in pointless "peace negociation" but invest to ameliore Turkey's trafic. In French for exemple we lost 3500 which is much less than Turkey.
If this is civil war then Turkey is the only country in the world which lost more live because of trafic rather than his civil war.

Isis is not a threat to Turkey, they will never dare to move directly against Turkey while they are fighting almost the whole world : Irak's army, Assad's soldier, milice chiite, Alqueda, PKK, SFA.....while they endure the coalition and Russia bombing.
Against Turkey they only dare to attack the HDP hoping the same thing that PKK : create a civil war in Turkey between Turcs and Kurds.

So while PKK and Isis are dangerous they will manage be a real threat to Turkey like the taliban with Pakistan.

 

[LegionnairE]

@Orez congratulations on your first sensible post! see? you can do it

only thing I want to add is that although death count of pkk conflict is low, it's consistent and it's enough to demoralize the public. And current strategies of "fighting" or rather not fighting pkk is the only reason why it's so effective.

If we repeated the Operation Sun of 2008 every winter. We wouldn't have consistent losses and pkk would suffer massive losses and demoralize. Current laws requiring armed forces to ask for local governor approval for military operations is idiotic and tracherous.

 

[AugenBlick]

Isis is not a threat to Turkey, they will never dare to move directly against Turkey while they are fighting almost the whole world : Irak's army, Assad's soldier, milice chiite, Alqueda, PKK, SFA.....while they endure the coalition and Russia bombing.
Against Turkey they only dare to attack the HDP hoping the same thing that PKK : create a civil war in Turkey between Turcs and Kurds.

ISIS the organization may not be , ISIS the ideology will certainly be. You do know even today Pak is best buddies with Afghan Taliban while being at war with TTP(Taliban pak wing).

PKK was always founded by other country like the URSS during the cold war (and this why PKK is comunist) and yet they have never managed to create a civil war between the Turks and Kurds.

Taliban was founded by US+Saudi+Pak . (that is why it is hardline Islamist) When the war in Afghanistan was in full swing , they did not touch Pak. After the war (about 89 )they came in Kashmir , it was post 9/11 and post Indian economic recovery(India went bankrupt in 91) that they found themselves unable to comprehensively attack India or US and shifted to "Islamizing" Pakistan.

We lost 1000 people a years because of PKK, and we lost 8000 people because of traffic accident.....if the state want to save live don't invest in pointless "peace negociation" but invest to ameliore Turkey's trafic. In French for exemple we lost 3500 which is much less than Turkey.
If this is civil war then Turkey is the only country in the world which lost more live because of trafic rather than his civil war.

Not true. Here are figures for Pakistan, one of the top failed/fragile states:

Compare that to Pakistan Road fatalities in only 2010(source WHO) : 30,131
List of countries by traffic-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So why is Pak conducting Zarb-e-Azb
Again the full blowback will come when Russians start bombing ISIS (they're bombing "moderate rebels" now). Add the PKK which is getting weapons from the west and you have an explosive mixture.

If we repeated the Operation Sun of 2008 every winter. We wouldn't have consistent losses and pkk would suffer massive losses and demoralize.

It would be better if you negotiate , however I do not know this operation 2008 or it's details. If it is carried out inside turkey then I recommend negotiations, but Erdogan is too egoistic and not pragmatic enough.
Guy's whose opinions I would like:
@mike2000 is back and @Gabriel92

 

[LegionnairE]

It would be better if you negotiate , however I do not know this operation 2008 or it's details. If it is carried out inside turkey then I recommend negotiations, but Erdogan is too egoistic and not pragmatic enough.

Negotiate with whom? PKK? no way
HDP? they are the political wing of PKK

There isn't anyone reasonable on the other side of the fence to negotiate with.
Hüda-PAR is getting destroyed by PKK, they kill them one by one.

Operation Sun was a massive operation across Iraqi border that struck a massive blow to PKK and it only lasted a week. If we spent a week on cleaning up every year, we wouldn't be spending the whole year mourning about our losses.

That's what I'm saying
and do it in winter, pkk struggles in mobilizing in winter, we could isolate individual camps and destroy them one by one.

 

[AugenBlick]

Negotiate with whom? PKK? no way
HDP? they are the political wing of PKK

There isn't anyone reasonable on the other side of the fence to negotiate with.
Hüda-PAR is getting destroyed by PKK, they kill them one by one.

Operation Sun was a massive operation across Iraqi border that struck a massive blow to PKK and it only lasted a week. If we spent a week on cleaning up every year, we wouldn't be spending the whole year mourning about our losses.

That's what I'm saying
and do it in winter, pkk struggles in mobilizing in winter, we could isolate individual camps and destroy them one by one.

I wish you luck. Maybe a carrot-stick combo is the best. I don't know.
There is a legend in India about tigers. It is said that once a tiger has tasted human blood, it starts actively hunting humans and becomes a man eater. At this point there is no other option to put him down.
Kurds have western support+ autonomous areas in Syria and Iraq which are countries only in name. It's like the tiger, they have tasted the human blood, they are not gonna give up easy.

 

[LegionnairE]

I wish you luck. Maybe a carrot-stick combo is the best. I don't know.
There is a legend in India about tigers. It is said that once a tiger has tasted human blood, it starts actively hunting humans and becomes a man eater. At this point there is no other option to put him down.
Kurds have western support+ autonomous areas in Syria and Iraq which are countries only in name. It's like the tiger, they have tasted the human blood, they are not gonna give up easy.

Turks are the real problem man, They went full retard after AKP they say shit like:
"if it could be done by military means, it would've been done by now"

we're losing people because of this.
always keep in mind that at times of war, the worst decision is better than confusion.
and what we have here is confusion

 

[AugenBlick]

Turks are the real problem man, They went full retard after AKP they say shit like:
"if it could be done by military means, it would've been done by now"

we're losing people because of this.
always keep in mind that at times of war, the worst decision is better than confusion.
and what we have here is confusion

Somehow people as a group lose the rationality that an individual has. Happens everywhere.

I can understand the confusion. Bombing PKK==Filling vacuum with Assad/ISIS/Al-Quaida aka Jabhat al Nusra.

The yellow areas are YPG and Black ISIS.
That black can be filled by
a) YPG/Kurds - Bad for turkey obviously.
b) FSA/Al-Nusrah - Not much change from ISIS I guess. Will not be allowed by Russia+Iran Combo.
c) Assad - Safest option for Turkey, will not be allowed by the West+Erdogan ego.
So ISIS is here to stay....sadly.
PS: US dropped 50 tonnes of ammo for a hereto unknown group "Syrian Democratic Forces,”"
50 ton-question: Who got US ammo intended for anti-ISIS Arabs? — RT USA

The Pentagon said the shipment dropped by US airplanes on October 11 was intended for the “Syrian Democratic Forces,” an alliance of Arabs and Kurds several thousand strong intent on attacking the Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) capital of Raqqa. The group’s existence was announced just hours before the first airdrop.

This was actually a front to arm the YPG, as US needs turkish support to continue the war in Syria so the chips are against you and the only way to go is down.
PS: You gotta appreciate the Irony when your best option is ISIS.