Turkey considers Russian Su-57 or Chinese J-31 jets to replace F-35s

[Kailash Kumar]

Turkey considers Russian Su-57, Chinese J-31 jets to replace F-35s - Yeni Şafak

Jun 09 2019

Turkey’s security bureaucracy already has alternative plans in case the United States halts the delivery of the F-35 jets over Ankara’s decision to buy S-400 missile systems and has been considering Russian Su-57 or Chinese J-31 stealth fighters as possible options, pro-government Yeni Şafak daily said on Sunday.

As a last move of Washington’s increased pressure on Ankara to cancel the S-400 deal with Moscow, the Acting U.S. Secretary of Defense Patrick Shanahan sent a letter to Turkish Defence Minister Hulusi Akar on Thursday detailing how Turkey’s participation in the F-35 program will be all but suspended as of July 31, unless Turkey withdraws from its planned purchase of Russian defence systems.

In April, the United States froze a joint F-35 manufacturing program with Turkey, which produces 6-7 percent of the parts for the fighter jets, while there is a bipartisan support in U.S. Congress to halt the delivery of 100 F-35 jets Turkey plans to buy from the United States, in case Ankara goes ahead with S-400 acquisition plans.

CNBC reported last month that Washington had told Ankara to decide by early June to either cancel its acquisition of Russia’s S-400 missile systems and buy U.S.-made Patriots or risk expulsion from an advanced U.S. fighter jet program, U.S. sanctions and possible blowback from NATO.

According to Yeni Şafak, the Pentagon made its last move by sending the letter on Thursday, a day before the end of the deadline set for June 7.

Ankara prioritises S-400s over F-35 fighter jets as the missile systems are seen as an urgent need due to regional tensions, the daily said.

“The B, C, D plans are ready in case the F-35 project goes to the dump after S-400 purchase,” Yeni Şafak said. Turkey will sustain its air force by increasing the maintenance of existing aircrafts, while it will escalate efforts to produce its own jets, according to the pro-government newspaper.

“To sit at the table with Russia for the accusation of military aircraft is among the options. The security bureaucracy is also exploring Chinese J-31s, along with Russian Su-57s,” it said, adding that those options were also more cost-effective compared to F35s.

“Ankara already thinks that even if F-35s are delivered, they will create serious security risks for Turkey as they are directly commanded by the United States. Therefore, nobody regrets ‘losing’ F-35s,” the daily said.

Mehmet Barlas, a columnist of the pro-government daily Sabah, on Sunday also suggested immediately ordering Russian jets, without waiting for U.S. sanctions that can be imposed under the Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA).

Tyler Rogoway and Joseph Trevithick said in an article they penned for The Drive automotive website last month that Moscow had stated it had been ready to work with Turkey on the export and production of their Su-57 advanced fighter jet to fill the void of the U.S.-produced F-35s.

Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu said in April that Turkey could buy aircrafts elsewhere, when asked about Ankara’s possible expulsion from the F-35 programme.

“There are (Russian) Su-34, Su-57 and others. I will absolutely meet my needs from somewhere until I can produce it myself,” Çavuşoğlu said.

https://ahvalnews.com/us-turkey/tur...57-chinese-j-31-jets-replace-f-35s-yeni-safak

 

[UzaySan]

Okay I can understand Su-57 but J-31? Literally no one consider J-31

 

[Philip the Arab]

Okay I can understand Su-57 but J-31? Literally no one consider J-31

F-35 outclasses both the Su-57, and the J-31. You agree right?

Turkey considers Russian Su-57, Chinese J-31 jets to replace F-35s - Yeni Şafak

Jun 09 2019

Turkey’s security bureaucracy already has alternative plans in case the United States halts the delivery of the F-35 jets over Ankara’s decision to buy S-400 missile systems and has been considering Russian Su-57 or Chinese J-31 stealth fighters as possible options, pro-government Yeni Şafak daily said on Sunday.

As a last move of Washington’s increased pressure on Ankara to cancel the S-400 deal with Moscow, the Acting U.S. Secretary of Defense Patrick Shanahan sent a letter to Turkish Defence Minister Hulusi Akar on Thursday detailing how Turkey’s participation in the F-35 program will be all but suspended as of July 31, unless Turkey withdraws from its planned purchase of Russian defence systems.

In April, the United States froze a joint F-35 manufacturing program with Turkey, which produces 6-7 percent of the parts for the fighter jets, while there is a bipartisan support in U.S. Congress to halt the delivery of 100 F-35 jets Turkey plans to buy from the United States, in case Ankara goes ahead with S-400 acquisition plans.

CNBC reported last month that Washington had told Ankara to decide by early June to either cancel its acquisition of Russia’s S-400 missile systems and buy U.S.-made Patriots or risk expulsion from an advanced U.S. fighter jet program, U.S. sanctions and possible blowback from NATO.

According to Yeni Şafak, the Pentagon made its last move by sending the letter on Thursday, a day before the end of the deadline set for June 7.

Ankara prioritises S-400s over F-35 fighter jets as the missile systems are seen as an urgent need due to regional tensions, the daily said.

“The B, C, D plans are ready in case the F-35 project goes to the dump after S-400 purchase,” Yeni Şafak said. Turkey will sustain its air force by increasing the maintenance of existing aircrafts, while it will escalate efforts to produce its own jets, according to the pro-government newspaper.

“To sit at the table with Russia for the accusation of military aircraft is among the options. The security bureaucracy is also exploring Chinese J-31s, along with Russian Su-57s,” it said, adding that those options were also more cost-effective compared to F35s.

“Ankara already thinks that even if F-35s are delivered, they will create serious security risks for Turkey as they are directly commanded by the United States. Therefore, nobody regrets ‘losing’ F-35s,” the daily said.

Mehmet Barlas, a columnist of the pro-government daily Sabah, on Sunday also suggested immediately ordering Russian jets, without waiting for U.S. sanctions that can be imposed under the Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA).

Tyler Rogoway and Joseph Trevithick said in an article they penned for The Drive automotive website last month that Moscow had stated it had been ready to work with Turkey on the export and production of their Su-57 advanced fighter jet to fill the void of the U.S.-produced F-35s.

Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu said in April that Turkey could buy aircrafts elsewhere, when asked about Ankara’s possible expulsion from the F-35 programme.

“There are (Russian) Su-34, Su-57 and others. I will absolutely meet my needs from somewhere until I can produce it myself,” Çavuşoğlu said.

https://ahvalnews.com/us-turkey/tur...57-chinese-j-31-jets-replace-f-35s-yeni-safak

Wait why did he say Su-34? This guy must be uneducated about fighter jets.
No stealth whatsoever. This is a fighter-bomber like the Su-24.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Turkey won't even Consider J-31 as they hate Chinese and Chinese hate Turkey ..

 

[MKALE1]

Turkey won't even Consider J-31 as they hate Chinese and Chinese hate Turkey ..

This is not like that man. We dont hate chinese. There is always open door for every country to make cooperation against the american threat to our national security. Chinese is one of them.

 

[Dalit]

I think for Turkey Su-57 is a more likely prospect. China won't sell its premiere fighter J-20 which rivals the F-22. It is difficult to predict whether J-31 has the specifications that Turkey requires. Another option for Turkey would be to continue its own domestic stealth fighter project.

 

[Kailash Kumar]

Wait why did he say Su-34? This guy must be uneducated about fighter jets.
No stealth whatsoever. This is a fighter-bomber like the Su-24.

It might be a mistake from the Foreign Minister.

The Foreign Minister made these comments in April.

A Turkish analyst has written an article after these comments.

Meet the Su-34 Fighter-Bomber: Could Russia Sell This Deadly Jet to Turkey?

Can Kasapoglu

April 20, 2019

On April 10, 2019, during an interview, Turkey’s foreign minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said that Ankara could opt for additional S-400 systems, and in case the F-35 deliveries were to be hindered, Turkey might well end up with Russian aircraft soon.

Notably, there was a key detail lurked in the determined words of Turkey’s top diplomat. “If the F-35s don’t work out, I will again have to procure the jets I need from elsewhere . . . There are (Russian) Su-34, Su-57 and others. I will absolutely meet my needs from somewhere until I can produce it myself,” Mr. Cavusoglu said. Indeed, the Su-57 option has recently come into prominence among Turkish strategic community. In fact, the Russian outlet Sputnik’s Turkish language service has been persistently developing news stories, advertising the Russian Su-57 as the ultimate “fifth generation” solution for Ankara—despite serial production failures and other technical problems plaguing the aircraft.

Apart from the Su-57 part, the interview marked the very first time that someone from the administration has publicly named Russia’s Su-34 Fullback as a potential acquisition target. But why in the world would Ankara bring the Su-34, a twin-seat strike aircraft (some would call tactical bomber), to the agenda? Well, one can reasonably argue that it was a slip of the tongue although the state owned outlets, Anadolu Agency and the TRT, reiterated the Su-34 comment word for word. It is possible that the Turkish foreign minister meant the Su-35, since it is an air superiority fighter that could theoretically offer a 4++ generation stopgap, albeit a limited one, if Turkey faces tough U.S. sanctions. After all, apart from only three seconds during Mr. Cavusoglu’s recent interview, we have almost no clue about a Su-34 portfolio being discussed between Moscow and Ankara.

On the other hand, for a moment let us assume that the Turkish foreign minister has really hinted at the Su-34 option following a briefing given by the ministry’s defense experts. In such case, there can be an alternative explanation too, a speculative yet thought-provocative one.

The New Military-Geostrategic Focus of the Turkish Air Force

What are the most notable features of the Turkish Air Force’s (TAF) latest combat record? I would confidently argue that intensive air-ground missions over complex battlefields, deep-strike capabilities, long endurance, and tactical air interdiction have been the most essential priorities for Ankara in recent years. In other words, being challenged by dangerous hybrid threats emanating from Syria and Iraq, Turkey’s defense planners tend to pay more importance to gaining rapid dominance beyond borders through heavy, good old fire-power.

In the 1990s, Turkey’s top guns were the masters of dogfights over the Aegean skies. But nowadays, ground-attack and bombardment achievements get the lion’s share. At the outset of Operation Olive Branch, on January 20, 2018, the Turkish military dispatched seventy two combat aircraft —roughly 25 percent of the nation’s fighter arsenal—to engage more than one hundred ground targets. Afterwards, the TAF had sustained a demanding operational tempo and generated high sortie rates to hammer the PKK / YPG militants. The December 2018 airstrikes in Iraq set another example to understand the TAF’s new outlook. The strike package, consisting of some twenty F-16s and F-4 2020s supported by tanker aircraft and drones, penetrated into more than 160 kilometers deep Iraqi territory, and pounded the PKK terrorist organization’s bunker-type facilities around Mount Sinjar and Mount Karacak while the defense minister and Turkish military chiefs were watching the operation real-time.

Add to this the fact that many non-state armed groups in the Middle East have got their hands on advanced MANPADS (man-portable air-defense systems). Back in May 2016, for example, the PKK used an SA-18—a Russian made, third-generation advanced MANPADS—to down a Super Cobra attack helicopter of the Turkish army aviation. In result, like many other militaries around the globe, the emerging operational environment has urged the Turkish Armed Forces to alter its close air support (CAS) planning. The present understanding is centered on using less rotary-wing platforms in high-risk areas, showing more reliance on the fast-developing indigenous drone capacity, and conducting overwhelming tactical air interdiction salvos in the overture of armed conflicts, as observed in Operation Olive Branch.

When it has become clear that the S-400 acquisition would imperil the F-35 deliveries, the Turkish press’ noteworthy expert interviews essentially came up with “air-ground capabilities oriented” way-outs, aiming at refurbishing the F-4 2020 fighter bombers for a delayed retirement, boosting national armed drone capabilities, producing larger numbers of Hürkuş-C light attack aircraft; and in the meanwhile, somewhat exploring the Chinese and Russian options for the future fifth generation plans.

Turkey has its own fifth generation air superiority fighter vision too, the MMU (Milli Muharip Uçak—the National Combat Aircraft, known as the TF-X). However, the primary partner of the project, the British giant BAE Systems, has strong ties with the U.S. defense industry. Thus, it would be almost impossible to isolate the Anglo—Turkish military cooperation from Ankara’s drift with Washington, especially under the CAATSA sanctions that became a stronger possibility. Besides, even the TF-X prototype is to make the maiden flight in 2023, the centennial of the republic. All in all, the national fifth generation aircraft has a long way to go, but Turkey’s immediate threat landscape cannot wait.

Meeting the Russian Brawler: The Su-34 Fullback

Well, this is where, speculatively and hypothetically, the Su-34 might come into play. In fact, the National Interest has assembled a very informative literature on the Russian strike fighter to date. Briefly, the Su-34 Fullback depends on a pragmatic design philosophy that combines crew comfort to support hours of flight at a time, optimization for air-ground strike, and adequate air-to-air capabilities for self-escorted missions thanks to the Flanker legacy.

The aircraft can carry some 17,600 pounds, broad-array of ordnance, including cluster bombs, standoff munitions and even anti-ship missiles, on twelve hardpoints. Another advantage of the platform is its advanced electronic warfare suite that can support suppression of enemy air defenses (SEAD) missions. The latter comes as little surprise since the Russians are formidably good at electronic warfare systems. Without a doubt, the Su-34’s combat performance in Syria has polished its fame, and made it more attractive for export opportunities. Still, targeting pods seem to be a weakness for the Russian tactical aviation.

Su-34s for Turkey? Seriously?

The Su-34 cannot build a future for the Turkish air power, nor could do the Soviet-style SAM-centric CONOPS. Can we see the Turkish insignia on Russia’s principal tactical bomber one day? Well, Turkey downed a Russian Su-24 about four years ago, and it is now becoming the one and only NATO nation acquiring the most advanced Russian strategic SAM system, the S-400. So, one would better get used to any surprises in the Turkish—Russian bilateral ties. Thus, prospects of a Su-34 procurement would be definitely unexpected, but not impossible. Yet again, we are eccentrically speculating about a three-seconds-long part of an interview which could well be just a slip. After all, it was not the defense minister or the procurement chief, but the FM who voiced the Su-34 Fullback. But, what if it was not just a slip of the tongue? Then, as Hamlet says, that is the question.

Turkey, whose defense economics truly reflects the characteristics of a mid-size regional pivot without the hydrocarbon gifts of the Gulf nations, can only pursue a radical inventory change through decades. However, large scale U.S. sanctions could right away bleed the Turkish military’s combat readiness since F-16s form the backbone of the TAF’s doctrinal order of battle. Ankara cannot tolerate being unable to operate beyond its problematic Middle Eastern borders. This necessity could make stopgap Russian solutions look attractive. Besides, one should note that the rapprochement between Moscow and Ankara had enabled Operation Euphrates Shield and Operation Olive Branch, the major Turkish military campaigns in Syria.

Although the Sukhoi euphoria in all kinds dazzles the Turkish press for some time, making a drastic shift and opting for totally alien Russian solutions would be easier said than done for Turkey after long experience with Western aircraft—let alone the chronic serial production problems of the Su-57. Firstly, as clearly reflected by various Flanker derivatives, Russian military aviation relies on a different design philosophy compared to NATO standards. Russian military-industrial complex prioritizes supermaneuvrability and kinematic advantages over stealth capabilities and network-centric information superiority. Secondly, one should not confuse fourth and fifth generation aircraft with small arms. A radical alteration in the fighter arsenal would inevitably necessitate doing the same in airbase infrastructure and maintenance systems, simulators, pilot training, munitions, concept of operations (CONOPS), and more importantly, military strategic culture of an entire branch. After all, how many Turkish pilots entered a Russian combat aircraft’s cockpit in the republic’s history?

Dr. Can Kasapoglu is the defense analyst of the Istanbul-based think-tank EDAM and IPC-Stiftung Mercator Fellow at the German research institute SWP. Dr. Kasapoglu holds a Ph.D. from the Turkish War College and an M.Sci. degree from the Turkish Military Academy. Previously he was an Eisenhower Fellow at the NATO Defense College in Rome and held a visiting research post at the NATO Cyber Center of Excellence in Tallinn.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...-russia-sell-deadly-jet-turkey-53502?page=0,1

 

[Super Falcon]

SU 57 will be great prospect for turkey

 

[Oublious]

I think we will buy a squadron of fighters, to replace F4 2020 or they are going to upgrade them again. The Viper will be upgraded with AESA radar, F4 2020 will be replaced with squadron of fighters for bombing operations. Looks like Russians are good candidate or last time upgrade. We can not wasting money, we need that money for TFX. The project cost estimated something of 10 billions of dollar.

 

[CAN_TR]

Nope...

These are speculations, i think in the end Turkey will go for a squadron of Eurofighters to replace the remaining F4 2020's, J-31 and Su-57 need serious modifications to even use our weapons and systems, money we don't have just for few aircrafts.

btw... both fighters aren't even in serial production and we need money for our own TF-X porject.

 

[Nein]

Man I want the J20 i highly doubt China would give it LOL

Oh well back to BF4 to enjoy the J20 if only Ace Combat 7 had some Chinese jets.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The name J31---would be coming as a shocker to many an superstar pakistani posters on this board---and some foreign posters here as well.

These people never understood that the J31 had already passed all the flight & functional parameters of a newly produced aircraft---.

This aircraft is primarily structurally ready for a buyer to pick its options---on what it needs and wants on this aircraft---and who better than Turkey---.

If Turkey goes the route of the J31---there is no rhyme or reason for the Paf not to follow suite---.

Turkey--zindabad---.

Dumping 10 billion dollars into a project that may face many a hurdles in the future---is too risky---. Turkey cannot build a power plant in a short time for this aircraft and it cannot depend on the europeans to provide one either---because of the US pressure if the US chooses to ---. So---why go that way---.

The J31 is physically ready---join the venture---adjust and modify the structure to your liking---build a complete EW suite for the aircraft and you have 3 buyers already lined up---ie turkish air force---Pakistan air force---and Plaaf---.

I believe that it would around one tenth the cost to modify the J31 to what Turkey / pakistan needs---.

 

[Beethoven]

Hi,

The name J31---would be coming as a shocker to many an illiterate pakistani posters on this board---and some foreign posters here as well.

These people never understood that the J31 had already passed all the flight & functional parameters of a newly produced aircraft---.

This aircraft is primarily structurally ready for a buyer to pick its options---on what it needs and wants on this aircraft---and who better than Turkey---.

If Turkey goes the route of the J31---there is no rhyme or reason for the Paf not to follow suite---.

Turkey--zindabad---.

Dumping 10 billion dollars into a project that may face many a hurdles in the future---is too risky---. Turkey cannot build a power plant in a short time for this aircraft and it cannot depend on the europeans to provide one either---because of the US pressure if the US chooses to ---. So---why go that way---.

The J31 is physically ready---join the venture---adjust and modify the structure to your liking---build a complete EW suite for the aircraft and you have 3 buyers already lined up---ie turkish air force---Pakistan air force---and Plaaf---.

I believe that it would around one tenth the cost to modify the J31 to what Turkey / pakistan needs---.

You Sir stole the words right out of my mouth....one other point to ponder...local engine being produced for TFX could be used as an option for powering the J31 in the long run

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Turkey won't even Consider J-31 as they hate Chinese and Chinese hate Turkey ..

Hate blinds even the most knowledgeable people

 

[New World]

SU 57 will be great prospect for turkey

i think they will go for J-31, as they are already building heavier aircraft by themselves.
and Don't underestimate J-31 as Pakistan has given lots of input in that fighter jet and that fighter jet is future of Pakistan Air Force.