Towards a common language script for all humanity

[jamahir]

This thread is inspired by a discussion in 'Whatever' with @ahaider97 and @Sainthood 101.

There are so many cultures in the world and every one of them will have some knowledge, poetry, progressivism and intellectuality within them to various levels. But people of other cultures don't know of those elements or are antagonistic because of no language knowledge so there becomes an artificial ignorance within the others for the others. For many things English has become the medium of information exchange but there will be some information bits, words etc that are conscise in a language that is not known to others because of historical language barrier, specifically the script. And there are some words or lines or sentences or information bits that apply to a certain geography or social situation that will remain hidden to others. For example, there is the Urdu word "Haasil". Translated to English it will be just "To obtain" but in Urdu the word has the context of "To do everything with passion and obsession to obtain and attain a thing, or a female object of obsession for that matter ( )". So I think towards common interaction and exchange of culture, political thought and scientific thought every language ( like say Urdu or Bengali ) should be written in Latin script like English, with special marks around the letters for some sounds - like in Urdu there is the "Gh" ( as in Ghalat, meaning wrong where the "Gh" where the tongue is pushed up to the upper part of the mouth while expelling air ). A similar sound in Urdu is "Kh" as in Khan.

People use such a system on the internet already and Google Translate understands this too, like I just now typed in "Aap kahaan hain" in GT which correctly understood it as Urdu / Hindi and outputted "Where are you" in English. But such Latin script writing is not made formal across human exchange whether within countries or across humanity. So I propose for all human writing to be made into Latin script. The Indonesians and Filipinos have done this so can all desi languages and other languages.

Additionally, though some languages are culturally advanced ( like Bengali, Hebrew, Russian and Tamil ) their script is not very elegant, not sightly ( sorry, @Bilal9 bhai and @Atlas. Sorry @dani191 and @Beny Karachun. Sorry @vostok. Sorry @manlion ) but Latin script is elegant and simple so a change of those languages' scripts to Latin script will bring the achievements of those cultures to the knowledge of other cultures. Will this change not be nice ?

The best way to start is computer documents, whether a PDF file or webpages. There is already the two-byte Unicode letter format to present the letters of various languages ( say Chinese ) into their visual representations but that is again of no use because a Bengali will not be able to read Chinese visual letters, a German will not be able to read Urdu, and so on. However, if computer text code can be arranged such that all the letters are in Latin script with marks for special sounds then a person will be more enthused to use Google Translate on that text or will be enthused to even learn at least some of that language and online OCR translators will have it easier to translate.

My idea is this, and you the readers should contribute, an ASCII one-byte code is a simple code that can have number values from 0 to 255 ( max range of one byte ) with the values representing English capital case letters; small case letters; alphanumber values from 0 to 9; notation codes for word and sentence formatting ( like single and double quotes ); control codes for old-time screen printing, paper printing, serial port transmission and probably storage tape; then the Capitalist letters for the US Dollar, British Pound, Japanese Yen, "At the rate of" and so on; then sounds for Latin; other things. All fitting within the one-byte code. You can see the entire ASCII code list here.

Now I am sure there are not more than 255 vocalizations in any language for a letter or a two letter or three letter group so the eight-bit ASCII code for an English letter ( capital case or small ) can be represented by the one-byte code, then the last currently-unused-for-letters bit ( the eighth ) can have a value of one or zero to indicate whether there is a vocalization coming in the immediate next byte ( value one ) or not coming ( value 0 ) and if one then the immediate next ASCII code can represent a one-byte vocalization for that previous letter. For example the name Khan in ASCII and general English is four letters but non-desi speakers many a time pronounce it incorrectly as though they are seeing it as some English word that is pronounced as spelt, not with the tongue brought from bottom of mouth to the top and air expelled but just the air expelled, a thicker vocalization of the place Cannes. But if the vocalization marks around a letter are taught to people or made known then people will understand how to pronounce a word properly by understanding the vocalization of each letter if it has special prounounciation for that letter.

So if the first byte in a word has a capital letter or small letter its last bit ( the eighth bit ) will mark if there is a vocalization coming in the next byte and if so the graphics subsystem will print that vocalization above or under the previous letter. If the eighth bit is a zero then the next byte will be a letter or a alphanumber number ( 0-7 ) or other characters.

There are only so many visual marks and their vocalizations that a human can see or voice and I think 256 of them are enough. Computer documents, paper documents or text engraved in stone or metal can all be used with this system. What do you think ? This is an idea in ideation so please contribute.

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Changed "Roman script" to "Latin script" via correction by @Sainthood 101

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@Mentee @fitpOsitive @Joe Shearer @Bilal9 @Goenitz @KedarT @vishwambhar @Indos @Atlas @Valiant @Great Janjua @PDF @RescueRanger @Signalian @DrJekyll, all others.

 

[Maula Jatt]

its Latin- only Latin script can be used for all humanity
as people already learn English, so they already know the script

 

[Skull and Bones]

 

[RescueRanger]

Interesting thread, I'd recommend reading this book:

 

[jamahir]

aksar urdu aj kal isi tarah hi likhi jati h q k is tarah likhna asan ha mobile keyboard par warna angrezi khat ka khubsurti k aitbar sa koi muqabli nahi nastaleeq urdu sa, khush khati aik bakaida fun ha jo sadion sa nasal dar nasal chala aa raha ha hum asani ya kisis aur waja sa apni is wirasat ko tark nahi kar sakta

I didn't understand what "Tark" exactly means but I understood the gist of your post. That is what my intention is - to bring the viraast ( heritage ) of languages to the knowledge of speakers of other languages, to bring about a union of peoples, to make humanity a single "tribe". People can develop a habit of using the nuances from other languages into their own presentations. This is an element that proponents of Communism like me would be happy to adopt.

@SalarHaqq @Hamartia Antidote @Hassan Al-Somal, sorry, didn't tag you for the OP. Please read from there.

Interesting thread, I'd recommend reading this book:

View attachment 862015

Thanks. I plan to soon purchase from a second-hand bookshop so will see if this book is available.

 

[Paitoo]

Nope. I don't like such uniformity at all.

I like it when I speak to a foreigner (or even within my own country in a different state) and we cannot understand each other.

I like it that I have learnt a certain nuance of a different culture or someone has learnt ours

I like it when I cannot read a sign and have to ask for directions.

I like using Google translate to sometimes confirm my correct understanding of a foreign word

I like getting lost (clueless) in another culture. It enhances the adventure. I dislike feeling at home

Why are you so hell bent upon bringing boring standardization to the world?

 

[jamahir]

its Latin

Thanks. Added the correction in the OP.

only Latin script can be used for all humanity
as people already learn English, so they already know the script

Agreed.

 

[jamahir]

Nope. I don't like such uniformity at all.

I like it when I speak to a foreigner (or even within my own country in a different state) and we cannot understand each other.

I like it that I have learnt a certain nuance of a different culture or someone has learnt ours

I like it when I cannot read a sign and have to ask for directions.

I like using Google translate to sometimes confirm my correct understanding of a foreign word

I like getting lost (clueless) in another culture. It enhances the adventure. I dislike feeling at home

Why are you so hell bent upon bringing boring standardization to the world?

I understand that there should remain some mystery in the affairs of humans - I too like that so - but I only speak for standardization in script so that there is more exchange among people. There will always be silos of interest, like poetry, but the silos shouldn't be so big that they exclude entire other sections of humanity who would have benefited from knowing from the others.

 

[Paitoo]

I understand that there should remain some mystery in the affairs of humans - I too like that so - but I only speak for standardization in script so that there is more exchange among people. There will always be silos of interest, like poetry, but the silos shouldn't be so big that they exclude entire other sections of humanity.

You are over estimating the average human's need and desire for social interaction with people different from them. Vast majority of the people are clanish and like to mingle only with their own. A farmer in Haryana is not missing Russian poetry and a woman in Botswana is not dying to understand the delicate nuances of Rabindra Sangeet. It is only people like us who desire for such things. And lets face it, if there is no effort, there is no sense of triumph at the end of it.

 

[fitpOsitive]

There are so many cultures in the world and every one of them will have some knowledge, poetry, progressivism and intellectuality within them to various levels. But people of other cultures don't know of those elements or are antagonistic because of no language knowledge so there becomes an artificial ignorance within the others for the others. For many things English has become the medium of information exchange but there will be some information bits, words etc that are conscise in a language that is not known to others because of historical language barrier, specifically the script. And there are some words or lines or sentences or information bits that apply to a certain geography or social situation that will remain hidden to others. For example, there is the Urdu word "Haasil". Translated to English it will be just "To obtain" but in Urdu the word has the context of "To do everything with passion and obsession to obtain and attain a thing, or a female object of obsession for that matter ( )". So I think towards common interaction and exchange of culture, political thought and scientific thought every language ( like say Urdu or Bengali ) should be written in Latin script like English, with special marks around the letters for some sounds - like in Urdu there is the "Gh" ( as in Ghalat, meaning wrong where the "Gh" where the tongue is pushed up to the upper part of the mouth while expelling air ). A similar sound in Urdu is "Kh" as in Khan.

People use such a system on the internet already and Google Translate understands this too, like I just now typed in "Aap kahaan hain" in GT which correctly understood it as Urdu / Hindi and outputted "Where are you" in English. But such Latin script writing is not made formal across human exchange whether within countries or across humanity. So I propose for all human writing to be made into Latin script. The Indonesians and Filipinos have done this so can all desi languages and other languages.

Additionally, though some languages are culturally advanced ( like Bengali, Hebrew, Russian and Tamil ) their script is not very elegant, not sightly ( sorry, @Bilal9 bhai and @Atlas. Sorry @dani191 and @Beny Karachun. Sorry @vostok. Sorry @manlion ) but Latin script is elegant and simple so a change of those languages' scripts to Latin script will bring the achievements of those cultures to the knowledge of other cultures. Will this change not be nice ?

The best way to start is computer documents, whether a PDF file or webpages. There is already the two-byte Unicode letter format to present the letters of various languages ( say Chinese ) into their visual representations but that is again of no use because a Bengali will not be able to read Chinese visual letters, a German will not be able to read Urdu, and so on. However, if computer text code can be arranged such that all the letters are in Latin script with marks for special sounds then a person will be more enthused to use Google Translate on that text or will be enthused to even learn at least some of that language and online OCR translators will have it easier to translate.

My idea is this, and you the readers should contribute, an ASCII one-byte code is a simple code that can have number values from 0 to 255 ( max range of one byte ) with the values representing English capital case letters; small case letters; alphanumber values from 0 to 9; notation codes for word and sentence formatting ( like single and double quotes ); control codes for old-time screen printing, paper printing, serial port transmission and probably storage tape; then the Capitalist letters for the US Dollar, British Pound, Japanese Yen, "At the rate of" and so on; then sounds for Latin; other things. All fitting within the one-byte code. You can see the entire ASCII code list here.

Now I am sure there are not more than 255 vocalizations in any language for a letter or a two letter or three letter group so the eight-bit ASCII code for an English letter ( capital case or small ) can be represented by the one-byte code, then the last currently-unused-for-letters bit ( the eighth ) can have a value of one or zero to indicate whether there is a vocalization coming in the immediate next byte ( value one ) or not coming ( value 0 ) and if one then the immediate next ASCII code can represent a one-byte vocalization for that previous letter. For example the name Khan in ASCII and general English is four letters but non-desi speakers many a time pronounce it incorrectly as though they are seeing it as some English word that is pronounced as spelt, not with the tongue brought from bottom of mouth to the top and air expelled but just the air expelled, a thicker vocalization of the place Cannes. But if the vocalization marks around a letter are taught to people or made known then people will understand how to pronounce a word properly by understanding the vocalization of each letter if it has special prounounciation for that letter.

So if the first byte in a word has a capital letter or small letter its last bit ( the eighth bit ) will mark if there is a vocalization coming in the next byte and if so the graphics subsystem will print that vocalization above or under the previous letter. If the eighth bit is a zero then the next byte will be a letter or a alphanumber number ( 0-7 ) or other characters.

There are only so many visual marks and their vocalizations that a human can see or voice and I think 256 of them are enough. Computer documents, paper documents or text engraved in stone or metal can all be used with this system. What do you think ? This is an idea in ideation so please contribute.

---

Changed "Roman script" to "Latin script" via correction by @Sainthood 101

---

@ahaider97 @Sainthood 101 @Mentee @fitpOsitive @Joe Shearer @Bilal9 @Goenitz @KedarT @vishwambhar @Indos @Atlas @Valiant @Great Janjua @PDF @RescueRanger @Signalian @DrJekyll, all others.

But you need capital for that idea. What will you do for that?

 

[jamahir]

You are over estimating the average human's need and desire for social interaction with people different from them. Vast majority of the people are clanish and like to mingle only with their own. A farmer in Haryana is not missing Russian poetry and a woman in Botswana is not dying to understand the delicate nuances of Rabindra Sangeet. It is only people like us who desire for such things. And lets face it, if there is no effort, there is no sense of triumph at the end of it.

There were many Haryanvi farmers who joined the Delhi farmers protest of 2020-21. Wouldn't they have liked to read of Russian philosophical works that are about sensitive things including agitation and revolution ? Should we have the right consider all of these farmers to be not having intellectual abilities ?

There are these YouTube Haryanvi vid songs. Can't they benefit from knowing Russian literature ? Before 2010 I listened to the radio adaptation by BBC World Service of a Russian novel called A Hero of Our Time. I liked it a lot. Surely a Haryanvi farmer or a Botswanan woman would also like it. Why we be certain that they won't.

But you need capital for that idea. What will you do for that?

Sorry, capital for what ?

 

[Paitoo]

There were many Haryanvi farmers who joined the Delhi farmers protest of 2020-21. Wouldn't they have liked to read of Russian philosophical works that are about sensitive things including agitation and revolution ? Should we have the right consider all of these farmers to be not having intellectual abilities ?

There are these YouTube Haryanvi vid songs. Can't they benefit from knowing Russian literature ? Before 2010 I listened to the radio adaptation by BBC World Service of a Russian novel called A Hero of Our Time. I liked it a lot. Surely a Haryanvi farmer or a Botswanan woman would also like it. Why we be certain that they won't.

You are counting exceptions to prove the need for a standard language. The artists are already among the curious so they classify among your and my type. The farmer protest had nothing do with language or intellectual capabilities. Fighting when you feel wronged is a universal instinct.

I am not being certain about anything. Those were just examples. If someone is indeed curious and wants to learn, they have already crossed into our territory of curious people. That doesn't mean everyone else is also rushing towards it

 

[fitpOsitive]

There were many Haryanvi farmers who joined the Delhi farmers protest of 2020-21. Wouldn't they have liked to read of Russian philosophical works that are about sensitive things including agitation and revolution ? Should we have the right consider all of these farmers to be not having intellectual abilities ?

There are these YouTube Haryanvi vid songs. Can't they benefit from knowing Russian literature ? Before 2010 I listened to the radio adaptation by BBC World Service of a Russian novel called A Hero of Our Time. I liked it a lot. Surely a Haryanvi farmer or a Botswanan woman would also like it. Why we be certain that they won't.



Sorry, capital for what ?

To implement the idea.

 

[jamahir]

Added in the OP credit to @ahaider97 and @Sainthood 101 for triggering the thought in me to create this thread.

You are counting exceptions to prove the need for a standard language. The artists are already among the curious so they classify among your and my type. The farmer protest had nothing do with language or intellectual capabilities. Fighting when you feel wronged is a universal instinct.

Yes, agitating against wrong is a universal thing among the aware but those who agitate can benefit from the experiences of those who agitated before. The general ways, words and results. For example some years ago in a ITES company I worked in for less than a year I felt wronged by the office situation in some things and I saw wrongs against other co-workers. So I organically thought of starting a workers union in the office to present an organized face to the team leaders and managers so that those two groups see the incorrectness of their behavior. My idea was to start a workers union in my branch, encourage the workers in the other branch in the city and encourage them to speak to all they know in the Indian IT / ITES industry to start unions in their offices and this would create the first-time federation of workers unions in this industry in India. For decades in India this industry's managements had an unwritten understanding with the governments that workers unions have to be actively discouraged. It is another thing that most of the workers in this industry in India are unaware people. Apathetic to even the office troubles of the worker in the workstation beside. Many of them have right-wing tendencies and are thus anti-intellectual and reject the idea of their own emancipation. They don't support their co-workers so when troubles come upon themselves there is no one to support them.

However, I wanted to change that so I had a round of argument with my local branch's manager and I demanded with the assistant manager to speak to the main HR department sited in the other branch in the city. There I could have easily gotten my way of starting a union but I don't know what came over me but i resigned from the company otherwise this union would have been the first such federation in India. This was before such a federation started in India in 2018 - the All India IT & ITeS Employees' Union. The guides of this federation are aware people. Look at one element of what they propagate :

In solidarity with the revolutionary people of Cuba who are fighting the pandemic under the stranglehold of the US-imposed blockade and sanctions – choking its supply of food, medicine and electricity, AIITEU stands with Cuba against the imperialist measures of the United States.

Since the revolution in Cuba for socialism against the military dictatorship of President Fulgencio Batista who was serving the trade interests of the United States, the country of over a crore population has been subjected to cruel embargos by the US governments making their survival tougher. To this date, successive US governments have only created a scarcity of resources by toughening sanctions against Cuba and sometimes relaxing to set up their own industries there.

Right now when there is a global shortage of COVID vaccines for which demands are being raised by various organisations including our union, Cuba with its socialised healthcare has developed five vaccine candidates to target a variety of COVID-19 strains. Two of these vaccines whose last phase of the trials are complete, Soberana 02 and Abdala, have been proven to have an efficacy of 91.2% and 92.28% respectively, which ranks them amongst the most efficient of various vaccines developed across the world. Cuba is not only administering the vaccines to its own citizens for free but has also announced free jabs to tourists.

At the onset of the pandemic, 29,000 Cuban doctors had already been working in 59 countries but an additional 55 sanctions since then has resulted in a shortage of medical equipment in the island itself. Apart from this, as a result of the sanctions unemployment has also increased slightly and a food and power shortage is caused. The unrest and protests caused by these have been magnified on social media by the use of bots and also fake images in order to create a narrative against the regime and cause a change, a long term plan of the CIA as per their declassified documents. Such an army of bots that never get approved on Twitter was approved since the narrative was being set by the United States itself.

AIITEU thus calls upon the employees of the IT and ITES sector and the citizens of India to stand in solidarity with the Cuban struggle against American imperialism and to build pressure on them to follow the mandate of the UN General Assembly which has voted to lift the Cuban sanctions 29 years in a row. We condemn the undemocratic misuse of technology to make it serve cruel imperial interests.

We are also signing a solidarity campaign as our union named Let Cuba Live! It is the title of an open letter addressing US President Joe Biden, signed by 400 prominent intellectuals, academicians, activists, unions and progressive civil society organisations across the world, demanding the lifting of the blockade. You can find this letter and endorse it with your signature at letcubalive.com.

Now the IT / ITES workers through this recent federation of unions also spoke for the farmers in the 2020-21 farmers protests and indeed, many of those farmers would have been Haryanvi :

Are you not going wrong in saying that Haryanvi farmers and Indian IT / ITES workers have nothing to do with Cuba's freedom struggle against NATO terrorism and nothing to do with the Cuban revolution of of 1953-1959 which brought the leftists into governance there ? What if an oppressed Dalit from Karnataka in India and an oppressed-by-mullahs young female from elsewhere in India were to understand this song about Che Guevara in their own languages ? Wouldn't they start thinking of beginning their journey of emancipation ?

It is unnatural, anti-democratic and anti-human to artificially keep humans from interacting with others.

To implement the idea.

Not actually. If we develop such a text format by discussion here - and it will be really a simple format - we can present it to the open source software community. And you know where I am going to use it also.

 

[Kedikesenfare2]

Global egalitarianism? No. Nation or country-based egalitarianism? Yes.