Tonbo Imaging products In the hands of the users

[The_Sidewinder]

1) Still does not explain ownership structure
2) Corresponds to my first assumption that this company does not make it's product in India, read the Apple model he was talking about
3) The core components, the imaging chips and detectors are not made it in India. This is a more marketing savvy screwdriver + sticker company. Read about how he describes other Indian defence PSUs, buying components and system from around the world and assembling it.
4) What is meant by their own IP? Other than software, I do not see any core IP for imaging chips since they are using off the shelf products.

Realize how one ex-DARPA manager is an 'advisor'? He is leveraging on his crony connections in DARPA to secure contracts. Typical Indian modus operandi, i scratch your back you scratch mine. Stop BS about 'state of the art' technology, it's just night vision for god sake.

It's pretty simple, INDIA CANNOT MAKE CHIPS WITHOUT A FAB. Understand?

Okey, Chineese are the best.

 

[bloo]

1) Still does not explain ownership structure
2) Corresponds to my first assumption that this company does not make it's product in India, read the Apple model he was talking about
3) The core components, the imaging chips and detectors are not made it in India. This is a more marketing savvy screwdriver + sticker company. Read about how he describes other Indian defence PSUs, buying components and system from around the world and assembling it.
4) What is meant by their own IP? Other than software, I do not see any core IP for imaging chips since they are using off the shelf products.

Realize how one ex-DARPA manager is an 'advisor'? He is leveraging on his crony connections in DARPA to secure contracts. Typical Indian modus operandi, i scratch your back you scratch mine. Stop BS about 'state of the art' technology, it's just night vision for god sake.

It's pretty simple, INDIA CANNOT MAKE CHIPS WITHOUT A FAB. Understand?

Screwdriver, really?
218 patents and their products are 95% indigenously built in India.
I mean clearly they must be lying.
After all majority of their sales are foreign and have sold to American forces, special and otheewise but the DARPA guy can praise Tonbo only because he has a conflict of interest, not becauae Indian products can be good.

Chips, yes they are a core component but there is more to optics than just chips.

Tonbo is among a very very few companies in the world that can make senser fused nvgs, but sure I mean they are a screwdriver tech company after all so every screwdriver tech company could easily come up with that.

And some would suggest everything they make comes from China, so I'm sure many chinese companies can make and have made sensor fused devices too, right?

 

[Han Patriot]

Screwdriver, really?
218 patents and their products are 95% indigenously built in India.
I mean clearly they must be lying.

Chips, yes they are a core component but there is more to optics than just chips.

Tonbo is among a very very few companies in the world that can make senser fused nvgs, but sure I mean they are a screwdriver tech company after all so every screwdriver tech companies could easily come up with that.
And some would suggest everything they make comes from China, so I'm sure many chinese companies can make and have made sensor fused devices too, right?

Optics? The component translating what you see into digital signals is the most important, otherwise you can just buy off the shelf telescope lens. Nope, we Chinese can make some of the best imaging chips, but we can't make 'sensor fused nvgs'?

95% indigenous when you buy almost everything off the shelf? , you Indians are so simple minded and naive. The electronics? which fab are making those chips? You want to bet it comes from China? The only thing you can claim as original is maybe the software. Nothing more, nothing less.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/photo...largest-150-megapixel-full-frame-cmos-sensor/

http://www.tucsen.com/products/Dhyana-400DC.html

You need a industrial base to produce things, not just software and 'patents' on camera shape.

 

[bloo]

Optics? The component translating what you see into digital signals is the most important, otherwise you can just buy off the shelf telescope lens. Nope, we Chinese can make some of the best imaging chips, but we can't make 'sensor fused nvgs'?

95% indigenous when you buy almost everything off the shelf? , you Indians are so simple minded and naive. The electronics? which fab are making those chips? You want to bet it comes from China? The only thing you can claim as original is maybe the software. Nothing more, nothing less.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/photo...largest-150-megapixel-full-frame-cmos-sensor/

Oh really.
How many mil std nvgs precisely engineered, containing advanced photocathodes, FO converters etc can be sourced off the shelf.

You have the most important part right, so where are your super advanced sensor fused nvgs?

95% indigenous when you buy almost everything off the shelf?

From INDIA.....
But these are not my words, its the owners.

But they must be lying ofcourse, after all if it hurts the ego of Han Warrior it must definitely be not true.

They use Qualcomm so it could be from China or even Taiwan.
Wafer fabs are indeed a problem in India which is why we are welcoming foreign semiconductor makers to invest, JV and make facilities here.
And we are getting there.

But the crux of the point is China can't make sensor fused devices with the "best FABs" while we can.
So there goes your whole theory, about screwdriving.

 

[Han Patriot]

Oh really.
How many mil std nvgs precisely engineered, containing advanced photocathodes, FO converters etc can be sourced off the shelf.

You have the most important part right, so where are your super advanced sensor fused nvgs?

ALOT can be sourced off the shelf actually, do you know what are FO converters genius? I am an instrument engineer, why the fk do you need a FO converter in a NVG? You have a FO cable hanging for kilometers? FO converters are used to convert digital signals into light signals for long distance communication.

Photocathodes? What era are you living in? Cathode tube televisions?. You use semiconductor imaging chips bhai. Yup, China doesn't produce advanced NVGs, we can make stealth planes, tanks and rifles(notice why I highlight TANKS AND RIFLES), but we can't make NVGs? We also make some of the most advanced CMOS chips. USE GOOOGLE for god's sake, do I need to spoon feed you? Wwhat do you think the Chinese troops were using? Does NORINCO ring a bell genius?

From INDIA.....
But these are not my words, its the owners.

But they must be lying ofcourse, after all if it hurts the ego of Han Warrior it must definitely be not true.

They use Qualcomm so it could be from China or even Taiwan.
Wafer fabs are indeed a problem in India which is why we are welcoming foreign semiconductor makers to invest, JV and make facilities here.
And we are getting there.

But the crux of the point is China can't make sensor fused devices with the "best FABs" while we can.
So there goes your whole theory, about screwdriving.

That's the point, THEY CLAIM. Indians claim they were supa powans since 2012 too, do you believe that? Of course they are gonna tell the military it's 95% indigenous since they need to meet the 'indigenous local content' requirement. Yet if you read them properly, they outsource all their production like Apple. Does it sound like a screwdriver + sticker company to you? I told you we can't make NVGs.

 

[punit]

ALOT can be sourced off the shelf actually, do you know what are FO converters genius? I am an instrument engineer, why the fk do you need a FO converter in a NVG? You have a FO cable hanging for kilometers? FO converters are used to convert digital signals into light signals for long distance communication.

Photocathodes? What era are you living in? Cathode tube televisions?. You use semiconductor imaging chips bhai. Yup, China doesn't produce advanced NVGs, we can make stealth planes, tanks and rifles(notice why I highlight TANKS AND RIFLES), but we can't make NVGs? We also make some of the most advanced CMOS chips. USE GOOOGLE for god's sake, do I need to spoon feed you? Wwhat do you think the Chinese troops were using? Does NORINCO ring a bell genius?




That's the point, THEY CLAIM. Indians claim they were supa powans since 2012 too, do you believe that? Of course they are gonna tell the military it's 95% indigenous since they need to meet the 'indigenous local content' requirement. Yet if you read them properly, they outsource all their production like Apple. Does it sound like a screwdriver + sticker company to you? I told you we can't make NVGs.

So many smilies.. don't use others quota.

 

[bloo]

ALOT can be sourced off the shelf actually, do you know what are FO converters genius? I am an instrument engineer, why the fk do you need a FO converter in a NVG? You have a FO cable hanging for kilometers? FO converters are used to convert digital signals into light signals for long distance communication.

Relax smartass.
Was in a hurry, I meant FO inverters.

Photocathodes? What era are you living in? Cathode tube televisions?

Which era?
In an era of Gen 3+ GaAs photcathodes.

Yup, China doesn't produce advanced NVGs, we can make stealth planes, tanks and rifles(notice why I highlight TANKS AND RIFLES), but we can't make NVGs? We also make some of the most advanced CMOS chips. USE GOOOGLE for god's sake, do I need to spoon feed you? Wwhat do you think the Chinese troops were using? Does NORINCO ring a bell genius?

I'm sure everyone believes that, you lot can "make" all that "high quality" stuff.

That's the point, THEY CLAIM. Indians claim they were supa powans since 2012 too, do you believe that? Of course they are gonna tell the military it's 95% indigenous since they need to meet the 'indigenous local content' requirement. Yet if you read them properly, they outsource all their production like Apple. Does it sound like a screwdriver + sticker company to you? I told you we can't make NVGs.

Really? All?
Onus probandi.
Prove it, why should anyone believe a random person on a forum over an accomplished actual company.

Rest of all that nonsense is just strawman galore.

 

[Han Patriot]

Relax smartass.
Was in a hurry, I meant FO inverters.

FO Inverters? There is no such thing as a FO inverter. Inverters are used to convert DC to AC, it's a power device genius. How do you expect a FIBER OPTIC to invert electricity. OOO man, you are one smart Indian talent.. My advise, go back to school and study plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Which era?
In an era of Gen 3+ GaAs photcathodes.

Do you know what is a photocathode genius? Explain to me how do you use a photocathode in a NVG. Find one NVG for me which ONLY uses photocathodes as the imaging sensor in this modern age.

https://www.photonics.com/EDU/Handbook.aspx?AID=25144

Sensor fusion combines the respective strengths of thermal and image-intensification technologies into one device. By combining the strengths of both technologies, users can view a much greater portion of the light spectrum – visible to near-IR to long-wave infrared. The ability to see information from both the visible and thermal spectrums through one device represents a significant advantage to military, security and law enforcement personnel (Figure 5).
Leading the technology development in image intensifiers with direct video outputs are the MCPCMOS (microchannel plate complementary metal oxide semiconductor) and the EBAPS (electron bombarded active pixel sensor). Both devices combine a modified CMOS imager directly into the vacuum envelope of a proximity focused image tube. The CMOS imager replaces the phosphor screen and provides a direct video output which can be presented to a head or helmet-mounted display. The primary difference is that the EBAPS does not contain a microchannel plate thus limiting its luminous gain capability. Additionally by having an electronic output, the image can be digitally enhanced as well as digitally combined with the electronic output of a thermal imager

I'm sure everyone believes that, you lot can "make" all that "high quality" stuff.

Cough cough, arjunk, cough cough, INSAS..

Really? All?
Onus probandi.
Prove it, why should anyone believe a random person on a forum over an accomplished actual company.

Rest of all that nonsense is just strawman galore.

Why not make it 99% indigenous, since the most important CORE TECHNOLOGY, the imaging chip means nothing to you. You don't seem to have the concept of weightage in evaluating something.

 

[bloo]

FO Inverters? There is no such thing as a FO inverter. Inverters are used to convert DC to AC, it's a power device genius. How do you expect a FIBER OPTIC to invert electricity. OOO man, you are one smart Indian talent.. My advise, go back to school and study plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Seriously?
Just don't.

A fiber optic inverter (twister) inverts an image from its input surface to its output surface. Fiber optic inverters are used primarily in night vision image intensifier tubes. The objective lens of the night vision device inverts the primary image while the fiber optic Inverter turns this image right side up and provides a compact intensifier package.
http://www.us.schott.com/lightingimaging/english/defenseproducts/inverters.html


Are you just blind or really that conceited?
USE YOUR EYES.

FROM YOUR OWN DAMN LINK.
Gen 2

Gen 3

Now, a better FO inverter would probably be be made by lathanides and would be smaller, weigh lesser than traditional lens systems, and any sort of image disturbance caused by thermal expansion would be greatly reduced because of it.

So much for being an instrument engineer.

Do you know what is a photocathode genius? Explain to me how do you use a photocathode in a NVG. Find one NVG for me which ONLY uses photocathodes as the imaging sensor in this modern age.

My goodness you are just pathetic; did I say ONLY photocathodes?

Your initial inference was that there are no photocathodes in NVGs and now that you have found out that indeed NVGs use "advanced"(which is the word I used, Galium Arsenide photocathodes also which I said initially & that which you chose to ignore because........well Chinese confirmation bias) photocathodes, you are just now twisting your rhetoric with "ONLY uses photocathodes" because you were caught with your pants down.

Why not make it 99% indigenous, since the most important CORE TECHNOLOGY, the imaging chip means nothing to you. You don't seem to have the concept of weightage in evaluating something.

Two can play at that game.

Since you have the most important CORE TECHNOLOGY why not make a sensor fused NVG.

 

[Han Patriot]

Seriously?
Just don't.

A fiber optic inverter (twister) inverts an image from its input surface to its output surface. Fiber optic inverters are used primarily in night vision image intensifier tubes. The objective lens of the night vision device inverts the primary image while the fiber optic Inverter turns this image right side up and provides a compact intensifier package.
http://www.us.schott.com/lightingimaging/english/defenseproducts/inverters.html

First you told me it was FO converter, then I corrected you. Now it is image inverter or FO inverter? Cause in electrical terms an inverter is a power inverter. If you used FO image inverter then fine, I accept my mistake, but FO inverter is a confusing term. Yes I am an Instrument Engineer in the Petrochemical industry, not an optical engineer for NVGs. That's why when you start blurting shit like FO converters, that's BULLSHIT.

My goodness you are just pathetic; did I say ONLY photocathodes?

Your initial inference was that there are no photocathodes in NVGs and now that you have found out that indeed NVGs use "advanced"(which is the word I used, Galium Arsenide photocathodes also which I said initially & that which you chose to ignore because........well Chinese confirmation bias) photocathodes, you are just now twisting your rhetoric with "ONLY uses photocathodes" because you were caught with your pants down.

If you read my link properly, sensor fusion comprises of BOTH PHOTOTUBE and CMOS CHIPS, whereas older generation NVGs only had phototutbes, the differentiating technology here are the CMOS CHIPS, whereby you can convert the signal digitally and process it to get better images.

You were talking as if the photo sensors comprise of only phototubes and they were the most advanced component, what I was emphasizing is that the CMOS chip is the core component in that assembly. Did I say there were no phototubes? I was only correcting you of thinking phototubes as advanced components compared to CMOS chips. .

This was from my god damn site:

Sensor fusion combines the respective strengths of thermal and image-intensification technologies into one device. By combining the strengths of both technologies, users can view a much greater portion of the light spectrum – visible to near-IR to long-wave infrared. The ability to see information from both the visible and thermal spectrums through one device represents a significant advantage to military, security and law enforcement personnel (Figure 5).
Leading the technology development in image intensifiers with direct video outputs are the MCPCMOS(microchannel plate complementary metal oxide semiconductor) and the EBAPS (electron bombarded active pixel sensor). Both devices combine a modified CMOS imager directly into the vacuum envelope of a proximity focused image tube. The CMOS imager replaces the phosphor screen and provides a direct video output which can be presented to a head or helmet-mounted display. The primary difference is that the EBAPS does not contain a microchannel plate thus limiting its luminous gain capability. Additionally by having an electronic output, the image can be digitally enhanced as well as digitally combined with the electronic output of a thermal imager

Do you want to start on the history of GENIII NVDs? It's a 40 year old technology OK.

Two can play at that game.

Since you have the most important CORE TECHNOLOGY why not make a sensor fused NVG.

Who says we don't make it....GOOGLE.
https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/d...ase-of-controls-infrared-detection-items/file
Only one supplier from India for Phototubes, not sure which dinosaur age phototubes. Btw, the initial debate was about you claiming phototubes and FO image inverters as state of the art components which cannot be bought off the shelf. Both can be bought off the shelf in China, the differentiating technology was the CMOS chip.