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Time to review law of the sea

Martian2

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Time to review law of the sea|Op-Ed Contributors|chinadaily.com.cn

"Time to review law of the sea
Updated: 2011-08-30 08:10
By Li Jinming (China Daily)

As tension heats up in the South China Sea, some bordering countries insist on solving the dispute simply within the framework of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), but this insistence ignores history and violates inter-temporal law, a doctrine of international law.

As early as 1843, former United States secretary of state Abel P. Upshur wrote in an official letter: "A people's right to land discovered in the 16th century is determined on the basis of international law as understood at that time and not on the basis of improved upon or more enlightened views 300 years later."

Robert Y. Jennings, British scholar in international law and former president of the International Court of Justice, has said: "A juridical fact must be appreciated in light of the law contemporary with it, and not the law in force at the time when a dispute in regard to it arises or falls to be settled."


Speaking of Chinese people's discovery of Xisha and Nansha islands, Choon-Ho Park, South Korean expert in the law of the sea, expressed doubt whether modern international law is fully applicable to the historical facts of pre-modern times, saying that the discovery and use of these islands should be in line with the circumstances of that time instead of the interpretation of modern laws.

L.F.L. Oppenheim's International Law: A Treatise says: "In former times, the two conditions of possession and administration, which now make the occupation effective, were not considered necessary for the acquisition of territory through occupation". In Oppenheim's opinion, in the age of discovery, some symbolic act other than "effective occupation" was enough to justify the acquisition of territory in light of the law contemporary with it. It was not until the 18th century that international law entailed "effective occupation", and only in the 19th century did countries conform to such regulations in their practices.

Viewed in this light, inter-temporal law can play a key role in solving historical territorial disputes. China's sovereignty claim over the Xisha and Nansha islands can be justified from two aspects.

On one hand, China's sovereignty claim over the Nansha Islands can be traced back to centuries ago when there were fewer conditions for establishing title. Just as Daniel J. Dzurek, an US geographer, wrote, because the Nansha Islands and reefs were minuscule and had little economic importance until the development of extended jurisdiction under the new law of the sea, the claimants made little effort to secure clear title to them by means of occupation.

On the other, in the early 20th century, China mainly occupied the major islets of the two archipelagoes, such as the Yongxing Island and the Taiping Island, because in light of the law of the sea in force at that time, a country did not have to occupy every islet, rock and reef to claim its sovereignty over an archipelago, especially when the rest of the islets were faraway and hard to be reached.

China did not often reiterate its sovereignty over the islands before World War II, because it was universally acknowledged that a country does not have to frequently claim its sovereignty when there is no strong sovereignty request from other countries. Such a principle has been widely adopted in solving territorial disputes, including the 1928 Island of Palmas Case, 1931 Clipperton Island Arbitration and the 1933 Legal Status of Eastern Greenland.

Although UNCLOS is now the law in force to regulate maritime activities, it cannot deny China's historical rights over the Nansha Islands. China's traditional maritime border took shape in 1947, 47 years before UNCLOS came into force in 1994, when concepts such as continental shelf and exclusive economic zone were not yet known. Just as Chao Kuo-tsai, an expert in international law at Taiwan-based "National Chengchi University", has said, vested right is restricted by the law contemporary with it and cannot be withdrawn by laws coming into force later.

Moreover, according to UNCLOS, a coastal country enjoys certain rights over its exclusive economic zone, but such rights are restricted to the natural resources and the country has no sovereignty title over the islands in the region. Therefore, the surrounding countries in the South China Sea cannot use the exclusive economic zone as an excuse to forcibly occupy China's Nansha Islands, even though some of these islands are less than 200 nautical miles from their coastal baselines.

After UNCLOS came into force, some surrounding countries in the South China Sea have been using its articles beneficial to them to claim sovereignty and jurisdiction rights over the islands, and thus intensifying the disputes. The intensified disputes make the implementation of UNCLOS questionable.

Kriangsak Kittichaisaree, former legal officer in Thailand's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, has said: "The 1982 Law of the Sea Convention merely set a 'goal' to be achieved but is silent as to the method to be followed to achieve it. It restricts itself to setting a 'standard', leaving it to the States themselves, or to the Courts, to endow this standard with specific content".

By manipulating the shortcomings of UNCLOS, the surrounding countries have forcibly occupied China's Nansha Islands, are hindering China's offshore oil drilling, and driving away and even sinking Chinese trawlers. Confronted with such threats, China should consider its own situation before enforcing UNCLOS, clearly stipulating its rights over its exclusive economic zone and continental shelf. This is a basic right of a sovereign country and the right way to defend the country's sovereignty and maritime interests.

The author is a professor at the Center for Southeast Asia Studies, Xiamen University, Fujian province."

[Note: Thank you to Cheok Hong Chuan for the newslink.]
 
In Oppenheim's opinion, in the age of discovery, some symbolic act other than "effective occupation" was enough to justify the acquisition of territory in light of the law contemporary with it. It was not until the 18th century that international law entailed "effective occupation", and only in the 19th century did countries conform to such regulations in their practices.
So if we use 'discovery' alone to justify sovereignty, this would enable China to claim sovereign rights to all of Asia. Convenient...
 
So if we use 'discovery' alone to justify sovereignty, this would enable China to claim sovereign rights to all of Asia. Convenient...

"Discovery" is a perfectly legitimate archaic method of claiming title. Christopher Columbus did it. So did Hernando Cortez.

Chinese South China Sea discoveries are "grandfathered" under the older method of establishing title.
 
"Discovery" is a perfectly legitimate archaic method of claiming title. Christopher Columbus did it. So did Hernando Cortez.

Chinese South China Sea discoveries are "grandfathered" under the older method of establishing title.
So who should get credit for 'discovering' the Moon? I say that considering the resources the US invested into the Moon missions and the amount of debris left, the US has sovereign rights to the Moon.

Let the mining begins...!!! And shoot down any competitor's spaceships...!!!
 
So who should get credit for 'discovering' the Moon? I say that considering the resources the US invested into the Moon missions and the amount of debris left, the US has sovereign rights to the Moon.

Let the mining begins...!!! And shoot down any competitor's spaceships...!!!

You seem to lack not only knowledge of history, but also modern treaties. There is an important distinction between ancient claims of discovery (and title) and a modern treaty regarding the Moon.

hFYBA.jpg


Outer Space Treaty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The treaty explicitly forbids any government from claiming a celestial resource such as the Moon or a planet, since they are the Common heritage of mankind.[2] Art. II of the Treaty states that "outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means". However, the State that launches a space object retains jurisdiction and control over that object.[3] The State is also liable for damages caused by their space object and must avoid contaminating space and celestial bodies.[4]"
 
You seem to lack not only knowledge of history, but also modern treaties. There is an important distinction between ancient claims of discovery (and title) and a modern treaty regarding the Moon.
And you seems to have a lack of reasoning skill. If there can be a consensus on reverting sovereignty rights based upon discovery, there can be a consensus on changing that treaty about the Moon. But just as there will be no consensus on changing that outer space treaty, there will be no consensus on reverting sovereignty rights based upon discovery alone. It will create a legal hell for everyone and will result in unnecessary wars.

Do you really think I did not anticipate your rebuttal with that outer space treaty? Do you have any idea how common is that knowledge? Guess not.
 
And you seems to have a lack of reasoning skill. If there can be a consensus on reverting sovereignty rights based upon discovery, there can be a consensus on changing that treaty about the Moon. But just as there will be no consensus on changing that outer space treaty, there will be no consensus on reverting sovereignty rights based upon discovery alone. It will create a legal hell for everyone and will result in unnecessary wars.

Do you really think I did not anticipate your rebuttal with that outer space treaty? Do you have any idea how common is that knowledge? Guess not.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Ancient territorial claims are subject to the "discovery" test, such as Christopher Columbus' and Hernando Cortez's experience.

The modern treaty regarding the Moon is not analogous to ancient discoveries. The distinction is clear cut. You made the goofy comparison, not I.

The bottom line is that an U.N. Law of the Sea, which has not been ratified by the United States, from the 20th century cannot usurp China's South China Sea territorial claims from the Han Dynasty in 110 A.D. (or the 2nd century).
 
I have no idea what you're talking about.
Of course not.

Ancient territorial claims are subject to the "discovery" test, such as Christopher Columbus' and Hernando Cortez's experience.
And became unacceptable.

The modern treaty regarding the Moon is not analogous to ancient discoveries. The distinction is clear cut. You made the goofy analogy, not I.

The bottom line is that an U.N. Law of the Sea, which has not been ratified by the United States, from the 20th century cannot usurp China's South China Sea territorial claims from the Han Dynasty in 110 A.D. (or the 2nd century).
It is analogous in the sense that both are treaties that were created and therefore can be amended or even discarded by consensus. If China demand that the sovereignty test be as simplistic as via discovery, it would still mean that China must labor to achieve allies to agree to that claim, regardless of whether the US ratified UNCLOS or not. The other Asian countries will not be so foolish as to side with China over this because they know that it will put their lands in jeopardy. China will find NO allies in this issue.
 
China needs no allies on the issue of 2,000-year-old Chinese sovereignty over South China Sea islands.

1. Since the Han Dynasty in 110 A.D. and countless subsequent dynasties, China has claimed sovereignty over the South China Sea and its islands.

2. Only the U.S. Navy may possess sufficient military power to pose a problem for China. This is unimportant for two reasons. The Untied States does not recognize the terms of the U.N. Law of the Sea and has not ratified it. Secondly, the U.S. Navy probably cannot stop China's Navy in ten to fifteen years even if it tried.

3. The Chinese Navy can easily defeat all Southeast Asian navies combined in one week.

4. It is futile to dispute China's 2,000-year-old territorial claims to the South China Sea and its islands. China has history, international law (see quotations by prominent legal experts in the article from the original post), and military power on its side.

5. China has attempted to reason with Vietnam and the Philippines to avoid blowing them out of the water. Unnecessarily creating hard feelings is bad for business.

China's Manifest Destiny in controlling the South China Sea and its islands cannot be denied. Since 110 A.D., they have been Chinese territory.
 
China needs no allies on the issue of 2,000-year-old Chinese sovereignty over South China Sea islands.

1. Since the Han Dynasty in 110 A.D. and countless subsequent dynasties, China has claimed sovereignty over the South China Sea and its islands.

2. Only the U.S. Navy may possess sufficient military power to pose a problem for China. This is unimportant for two reasons. The Untied States does not recognize the terms of the U.N. Law of the Sea and has not ratified it. Secondly, the U.S. Navy probably cannot stop China's Navy in ten to fifteen years even if it tried.

3. The Chinese Navy can easily defeat all Southeast Asian navies combined in one week.

4. It is futile to dispute China's 2,000-year-old territorial claims to the South China Sea and its islands. China has history, international law (see quotations by prominent legal experts in the article from the original post), and military power on its side.

5. China has attempted to reason with Vietnam and the Philippines to avoid blowing them out of the water. Unnecessarily creating hard feelings is bad for business.

China's Manifest Destiny in controlling the South China Sea and its islands cannot be denied. Since 110 A.D., they have been Chinese territory.
One USN carrier group can cripple the PLAN. This is your hubris talking, not common sense. And regardless of whether the US signed UNCLOS or not, if China is allowed to claim sovereignty over any islands based upon discovery alone, then China is also allowed to claim ANY land in Asia that China can show historical evidences that China 'discovered' said land. Each 'discovery' will be disputed and unnecessary wars will occur. In this, no one will recognize China's demand that we change UNCLOS. If China insist on using the opinions of the few legal experts as basis for defying UNCLOS, then all Asia will unite against China and will invite US into the conflict.
 
One USN carrier group can cripple the PLAN. This is your hubris talking, not common sense. And regardless of whether the US signed UNCLOS or not, if China is allowed to claim sovereignty over any islands based upon discovery alone, then China is also allowed to claim ANY land in Asia that China can show historical evidences that China 'discovered' said land. Each 'discovery' will be disputed and unnecessary wars will occur. In this, no one will recognize China's demand that we change UNCLOS. If China insist on using the opinions of the few legal experts as basis for defying UNCLOS, then all Asia will unite against China and will invite US into the conflict.

One USN carrier group can be sunk by ASBMs, torpedoes, or anti-ship missiles. I think you grossly overestimate the military power of a single carrier group. This is the year 2011, not 1981. One USN carrier group isn't going to scare China. That is the reason the U.S. went to the trouble of assembling seven carrier groups for Summer Pulse in 2004.

Of course, seven carrier groups can be easily sunk by tactical nuclear missiles. It depends on whether China is willing to escalate to defend its territory.

The United States sat by meekly while Russia invaded and annexed 20% of Georgian territory. I see no reason why China should not follow the Russian example and call the U.S. bluff on the South China Sea.

The United States was unwilling to risk full-scale thermonuclear war over Georgia. Who seriously thinks the United States is willing to risk full-scale thermonuclear war over 2,000-year-old Chinese islands?
 
One USN carrier group can be sunk by ASBMs, torpedoes, or anti-ship missiles.
Spoken by a typical armchair general. Ever wonder such a weapon is developed by China in the first place? Assuming that the DF-21D does work as claimed, and I am willing to be generous about it, it mean that the PLAN by itself cannot 'area deny' the seas in Asia to the US. BY ITSELF. Since generating a 'blue water' navy to challenge US is currently beyond China's capability, the PLAN must rely on land forces to assist in the attempt at 'area denial'.

As for the DF-21D itself. Land forces have their own vulnerabilities, even mobile ones because mobility means revealing oneself through movement. The reason why fixed position quadruple km distance ballistic missiles have their current CEP figures is because of that fixed launch coordinates to assist navigation calculations. SLBM qualifies as fixed launchers because the sub will already be in place hours if not days underwater in the same position before launch.

Navy Intel Chief Yawns at China’s New Jet, Missile | Danger Room | Wired.com
“How proficient they are, what that level of probability is, we don’t know, and frankly I’m guessing that they don’t know,” Dorsett says. “They’ve probably simulated this in laboratories, they’ve certainly test-fired it over land, but to our knowledge they have not test-fired it over water at maneuvering targets.”
Neither you nor I know and China cannot hide a missile launch. Not even a ground rocket engine test firing without US knowing about it. So do yourself a favor and put some reasonably objective thinking into this issue.
 
Hey Martian

you might wanna pass your 'discovery' thing by your turkish friends here in the forum, because by your reasoning not only the Med but almost half of europe and perhaps even China and India would belong to the Greeks for having 'discovered' them first.
I bet the turks would't take so kind to your ...claims to put it nicely ...

you are too china friendly to understand when you crossed the line into the ridiculous in this forum.

while we are at it, why not simply find out who were the most ancient tribes and give them rule on everything..not just the sea ...
how about that?

jesus...
 

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