Time for Pakistan to come up with answers

[53fd]

It is time the Pakistan Administration came up with the right answers on how to solve this problem. It seems like the government of Pakistan is content to 'wait it out' till the US withdraws its troops from Afghanistan, while Pakistan is burning from the terrorism of these terrorists.

There are two important questions that need to be asked in relation to why Pakistan hasn't taken enough incisive action to eradicate terrorist groups in the FATA:

1. Does the Pakistan Administration on some level still believe the terrorist groups in the FATA are still strategic assets, despite the fact that many of these groups have ties with Al-Qaeda, & have been responsible for many terrorist acts, such as this one today. I don't know how the Pakistan Administration could in any way view these groups (that commit terrorism inside Pakistan) as strategic assets. Even if the US withdraws from Afghanistan, the groups will not shift all their focus on Afghanistan: they will still be 'engaged' inside Pakistan as well. Pakistan has stopped supporting the LeT from before the WOT in 2001, but the LeT is supported by the Punjabi Taliban & other local groups.

2. Does the Pakistan Administration not want to act in full force against these terrorist groups in fear of retribution, or getting completely stretched out inside Pakistan with little to no reward? This seems like a more rational explanation, but this does not solve the problem of terrorism inside Pakistan in the long run.

There is very little real information we know about w.r.t the events transpiring inside FATA: which specific groups are being killed in drone attacks, are civilians being killed more than terrorists, are the drone strike targets given by Pakistan's ISI or local 'informers'/spies of the CIA. And many questions about the cross-border infiltration from the safe havens of Afghanistan into Pakistan, & vice versa. Both the US/NATO Forces in Afghanistan, & Pakistan need to formulate better strategies to solve this headache for both countries. It has gone on for too long, & it is showing no signs of abating.

 

[53fd]

That being said, I still believe hope is not lost for Pakistan in anyway. Nothing is uncontrollable, the terrorism in Sri Lanka for example went on for more than two decades in full force. Sri Lanka eventually got through it. There are many such other examples in other countries as well. The PKK in Turkey were a brutal force as well. India had more terrorism from 1994-2005 than what Pakistan has had from 2001-2011, but India has overcome many of its problems as well. It was because the Indian leadership for the most part has made right decisions. While Pakistan is much better equipped than Sri Lanka to deal with its threats, Pakistan's stability depends on the right kind of US/NATO Forces actions in Afghanistan, thanks to the bloody goddamn porous western Pakistan-Afghanistan border. As of now, it seems to me that there is nothing Pakistan can do to influence the situation in Afghanistan to improve its own situation, as long as the US Forces are there, so it is looking at 'damage control'.

 

[seekers]

inside job can't be tackle until change the mindset

 

[mehru]

You are expecting too much Bilal. Military leadership consider their job done after giving press statements or press releases. They are more concerned about media criticism.

As for the civilian leadership, well when was the last time our dear PM or President addressed the nation?

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

That being said, I still believe hope is not lost for Pakistan in anyway. Nothing is uncontrollable, the terrorism in Sri Lanka for example went on for more than two decades in full force. Sri Lanka eventually got through it. There are many such other examples in other countries as well. The PKK in Turkey were a brutal force as well. India had more terrorism from 1994-2005 than what Pakistan has had from 2001-2011, but India has overcome many of its problems as well. It was because the Indian leadership for the most part has made right decisions. While Pakistan is much better equipped than Sri Lanka to deal with its threats, Pakistan's stability depends on the right kind of US/NATO Forces actions in Afghanistan, thanks to the bloody goddamn porous western Pakistan-Afghanistan border. As of now, it seems to me that there is nothing Pakistan can do to influence the situation in Afghanistan to improve its own situation, as long as the US Forces are there, so it is looking at 'damage control'.

The problem is bilal that india kept growing through that terror phase because , terror never reaches our major cities even in the troubled states . Terror was in the kashmir valley , in the northeast and in the jungles of eastern states by maoists . In Pakistan that is not the case. Terror tentacles have spread all over your country including all major cities.

About Pakistani WOT , its fairly clear ,

They have decided to attack anti Pak organsiations like TTP ,sipah e sahaba but anti india (LET , JEM ) , anti afghan (afghan taliban , haqqani network) and anti-west ( al qaeda) organisations have been left alone or have actually found some support system in Pakistan that has been conveniently overlooked .

That is why when Pak says their WOT is genuine , people dont really believe them atleast not in those three parts of the world , India , afghanistan and the west .

What the Pakistanis should understand but they dont is that allowing this extremist ideology to stay in pakistan will affect pakistan more than anyone else even if these organisations target someone else. The results are already there for everyone to see.

 

[53fd]

The problem is bilal that india kept growing through that terror phase because , terror never reaches our major cities even in the troubled states . Terror was in the kashmir valley , in the northeast and in the jungles of eastern states by maoists . In Pakistan that is not the case. Terror tentacles have spread all over your country including all major cities.

About Pakistani WOT , its fairly clear ,

They have decided to attack anti Pak organsiations like TTP ,sipah e sahaba but anti india (LET , JEM ) , anti afghan (afghan taliban , haqqani network) and anti-west ( al qaeda) organisations have been left alone or have actually found some support system in Pakistan that has been conveniently overlooked .

That is why when Pak says their WOT is genuine , people dont really believe them atleast not in those three parts of the world , India , afghanistan and the west .

What the Pakistanis should understand but they dont is that allowing this extremist ideology to stay in pakistan will affect pakistan more than anyone else even if these organisations target someone else. The results are already there for everyone to see.

The Pakistan Administration does not think of the LeT or the Al-Qaeda network in Afghanistan/Pakistan as strategic assets. Which is why these groups have been banned inside Pakistan. However, there are local groups (Pashtun groups, Punjabi Taliban) that support the Al-Qaeda network inside Pakistan. Al-Qaeda is a clear threat to Pakistan, & it has been asking Pakistanis to overthrow the 'current un-Islamic Pakistani government", & encourages people to commit terrorism against the Administration. So in no way does Pakistan view these groups as assets. Even if the US leaves Afghanistan today, the Al-Qaeda network will not focus all their energies on Afghanistan: they will remain "engaged" inside Pakistan, till they enforce their distorted Shariah version over Pakistan. So Pakistan does not see these groups as assets. I think it is time to stop this baseless talk of Pakistan thinking of Al-Qaeda as assets.

This is where the problem lies: Pakistan & the US are at total odds. The US wants to eliminate the local Pashtun groups 'Haqqani network', 'Waziri network' (Mullah Nazir + Hafiz Gul Bahadur) that aid the Al-Qaeda network first, but Pakistan wants the complete opposite: Pakistan wants to deal with the international group of terrorists first, & then deal with the local groups that aid the Al-Qaeda. Pakistan feels that dealing with the local Pashtun groups & the Punjabi Taliban first will pose a huge danger to Pakistan, as compared to eliminating the Al-Qaeda first. While the US is focusing on tackling the threats of the local Pashtun groups in eastern Afghanistan, it is doing nothing to close down Al-Qaeda safe havens in Northern Afghanistan (Kunar, Nuristan, Kunduz). As a result, the Al-Qaeda terrorist networks are completely intact in Afghanistan, & infiltrate easily into Pakistan, & are then protected by the local Pashtun groups (Haqqani, Mehsud, Waziri group, TSNM etc; all groups) in the FATA. Even though these local Pashtun groups might not like each other, Pakistan is mainly focused on fighting the Al-Qaeda network & the groups that are a direct threat to Pakistan. Pakistan feels that once the Al-Qaeda network is dismantled from Afghanistan & Pakistan, it will be much easier to take action against the local groups that support the Al-Qaeda.

While Pakistan is focused on fighting the Al-Qaeda in FATA, the US is fighting the local Pashtun groups in eastern Afghanistan. As a result, the 'progress' in fighting terror by both Pakistan & the US does not really build on each other, & in effect, cancels each other out. In other words, the Al-Qaeda is like the head of a monster, & all the other local groups are the hands & the feet of this monster. Pakistan wants to cut off the head first, whereas the US wants to cut off the head & the feet first.

These are not reconcilable differences between the US & Pakistan, & Pakistan is biding its time till the US leaves Afghanistan; which is when Pakistan can take effective action against the Al-Qaeda, & then root out the local groups after that. Pakistan is not looking for any interferences, or counter-effects from the US inside Afghanistan, which is why Pakistan is "biding its time" right now, looking for "damage control", because Pakistan cannot influence events inside Afghanistan, & Pakistan cannot do anything about the US taking actions inside Afghanistan that are detrimental to Pakistan & destabilize Pakistan further.

 

[salvage]

The Pakistan Administration does not think of the LeT or the Al-Qaeda network in Afghanistan/Pakistan as strategic assets. Which is why these groups have been banned inside Pakistan. However, there are local groups (Pashtun groups, Punjabi Taliban) that support the Al-Qaeda network inside Pakistan. Al-Qaeda is a clear threat to Pakistan, & it has been asking Pakistanis to overthrow the 'current un-Islamic Pakistani government", & encourages people to commit terrorism against the Administration. So in no way does Pakistan view these groups as assets. Even if the US leaves Afghanistan today, the Al-Qaeda network will not focus all their energies on Afghanistan: they will remain "engaged" inside Pakistan, till they enforce their distorted Shariah version over Pakistan. So Pakistan does not see these groups as assets. I think it is time to stop this baseless talk of Pakistan thinking of Al-Qaeda as assets.

This is where the problem lies: Pakistan & the US are at total odds. The US wants to eliminate the local Pashtun groups 'Haqqani network', 'Waziri network' (Mullah Nazir + Hafiz Gul Bahadur) that aid the Al-Qaeda network first, but Pakistan wants the complete opposite: Pakistan wants to deal with the international group of terrorists first, & then deal with the local groups that aid the Al-Qaeda. Pakistan feels that dealing with the local Pashtun groups & the Punjabi Taliban first will pose a huge danger to Pakistan, as compared to eliminating the Al-Qaeda first. While the US is focusing on tackling the threats of the local Pashtun groups in eastern Afghanistan, it is doing nothing to close down Al-Qaeda safe havens in Northern Afghanistan (Kunar, Nuristan, Kunduz). As a result, the Al-Qaeda terrorist networks are completely intact in Afghanistan, & infiltrate easily into Pakistan, & are then protected by the local Pashtun groups (Haqqani, Mehsud, Waziri group, TSNM etc; all groups) in the FATA. Even though these local Pashtun groups might not like each other, Pakistan is mainly focused on fighting the Al-Qaeda network & the groups that are a direct threat to Pakistan. Pakistan feels that once the Al-Qaeda network is dismantled from Afghanistan & Pakistan, it will be much easier to take action against the local groups that support the Al-Qaeda.

While Pakistan is focused on fighting the Al-Qaeda in FATA, the US is fighting the local Pashtun groups in eastern Afghanistan. As a result, the 'progress' in fighting terror by both Pakistan & the US does not really build on each other, & in effect, cancels each other out. In other words, the Al-Qaeda is like the head of a monster, & all the other local groups are the hands & the feet of this monster. Pakistan wants to cut off the head first, whereas the US wants to cut off the head & the feet first.

These are not reconcilable differences between the US & Pakistan, & Pakistan is biding its time till the US leaves Afghanistan; which is when Pakistan can take effective action against the Al-Qaeda, & then root out the local groups after that. Pakistan is not looking for any interferences, or counter-effects from the US inside Afghanistan, which is why Pakistan is "biding its time" right now, looking for "damage control", because Pakistan cannot influence events inside Afghanistan, & Pakistan cannot do anything about the US taking actions inside Afghanistan that are detrimental to Pakistan & destabilize Pakistan further.

to sum it up i would say Pakistan should talk with all those Pakistani nationals who are willing to giveup their arms in return for a General amnesty and withdrawl of Pakistan from American led War of terror.I am sure 90 percent of insurgency in few troubled areas of FATA will die once we say good-bye to America.
After withdrawing from american led war of terror then again if people create mischief then we go after them just like any other country goes after criminals...like this all Pakistanis will be on a similiar footing just like we are against india

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

well strategic depth also means good relations (vis-a-vis Afghanistan) and that is something we have been seeking for long time. The countries and their people are inseperable, however on some official govt. levels there has been some mistrust.

i think the media is the one which exaggerates a lot by claiming the militants or pro-militant factions are "strategic assets"

it is true that we do threat assesments and go after those who pose biggest (and most IMMEDIATE) threat to Pakistan. Unfortunately there is a presence of terrorists whose sole aim is to engage in Pakistan-centric sabotage and terrorism --many of them receiving financial and moral support by the enemies of Pakistan. This is a fact. Whom they (we know who) call terrorist, they may not post immediate threat to Pakistan. Should we allow them to use our soil? No, i dont think so. But the border is porous and long so it is natural that anti-state people can find some refuge in certain parts of the country

its a very hostile neighbourhood we are in, unfortunately.....but that is what we must accept


Pakistan has done more than her fair-share to fight terrorism. And it is an ungoing fight. The petty statements made by certain media, the laugh-worthy vitriol being yapped by certain nearby troublesome countries -- these make little difference at all if any when you look at the actual facts and ground realities.

 

[pyromagnet]

India still has it's brutal terrorist problems... and yes, they ARE in cities, you just don't hear about them. There are numerous assassinations and bomb blasts in Muslim urban areas of India, as well as occasionally in Hindu dominated territory.

I hate how people from the West, including Indians and westernized Pakistanis claim India has got it 'all together'. That is a load of crap, India is still a poor nation that suffers from terrorism. It seems like Indians will do anything to discourage and insult Pakistan, even if it means making false and arbitrary claims that are not on par with reality,

 

[muse]

A great thread but curiously it seems to have escaped the attention of the Military types on the forum --- Great questions Bilal, I wish you would have also allowed people to consider what FATA actually mean to Pakistan, and of course what it means to the Pakistan army and ISI, because it seems to me if you want to see strategic depth in action, you are seeing it in FATA --- To my thinking the overwhelming problem in Pakistan is the determination of the army to thumb it's nose at the government and continue to govern instead of being the army and being subservient to the government -- Of course one can understand the mind set that has gotten used to thinking of itself as the real government, the real power behind the klepto-politicians, but this attitude is now so seriously straining the polity, that political parties and the army are carving up the country and it's institutions, including the imposition and collection of taxes by entirely illegitimate means - and if you don't think of the security situation as a tax, think again.

While confrontation will not be helpful, it is increasingly becoming clear that the army is an obstacle to solution -- look it, the army will not kill the terrorists and instead is busy making deals with them, or else through the ISI and it's mullah connection, training new ones - in othet words, the army is itself the source of destabilization -- but why would it do this?? To pursue it's policy of being the government, instead of being the army - the army creates and manages these intra societal conflicts, so that no opposition to it's rule can coalesce effectively -- today the PML-N and it's CJ Chaudry following their own agenda are bad mouthing the army, tomorrow they will be singing it's praises, as the army blackmails the government and the Premier and President.

All of this suggests to me that Pakistan is once again, ripe for military intervention, wait overt military intervention, wait, it's in your face military intervention --

So is that a net negative?? Yes, because there is still no "Pakistani system", no new and improved constitution, and the absolutely most damning short coming, no plan to revamp and unleash the Pakistani economy. So, if you have enjoyed the last 60p something years, you'll soon have more of the same.

 

[T90TankGuy]

India still has it's brutal terrorist problems... and yes, they ARE in cities, you just don't hear about them. There are numerous assassinations and bomb blasts in Muslim urban areas of India, as well as occasionally in Hindu dominated territory.

I hate how people from the West, including Indians and westernized Pakistanis claim India has got it 'all together'. That is a load of crap, India is still a poor nation that suffers from terrorism. It seems like Indians will do anything to discourage and insult Pakistan, even if it means making false and arbitrary claims that are not on par with reality,

your first paragraph makes me believe that you have never ever visited India or have ever looked at our media. if a firecracker factory or even a gas cylinder blows up it on the news , so this line where bomb blasts and assassinations are carried out with out any one knowing , that too in urban areas is a load of horse manure.

mate are you Pakistani? your second paragraph seems to amplify the fact .
look we all go through just at different times in our countries histories , . its how you deal with it that defines you guys as a nation .

 

[shaktiman2010]

Pakistan's future is with India, not with Taliban or China.

 

[Developereo]

cross-border infiltration from the safe havens of Afghanistan into Pakistan

You just answered your own question.

It is a fool's errand to play whack-a-mole with murderous fanatics.

 

[shaktiman2010]

India still has it's brutal terrorist problems... and yes, they ARE in cities, you just don't hear about them. There are numerous assassinations and bomb blasts in Muslim urban areas of India, as well as occasionally in Hindu dominated territory.

I hate how people from the West, including Indians and westernized Pakistanis claim India has got it 'all together'. That is a load of crap, India is still a poor nation that suffers from terrorism. It seems like Indians will do anything to discourage and insult Pakistan, even if it means making false and arbitrary claims that are not on par with reality,

You sound like, you are obsessed with hindus and India.

 

[mastaan]

India still has it's brutal terrorist problems... and yes, they ARE in cities, you just don't hear about them. There are numerous assassinations and bomb blasts in Muslim urban areas of India, as well as occasionally in Hindu dominated territory.

I hate how people from the West, including Indians and westernized Pakistanis claim India has got it 'all together'. That is a load of crap, India is still a poor nation that suffers from terrorism. It seems like Indians will do anything to discourage and insult Pakistan, even if it means making false and arbitrary claims that are not on par with reality,

Sir, Can we please not try to scuttle a good hearted and praise worthy attempt of someone to look at their internal situation, by not bringing in irrelevant topics and biased opinions... India has or hasn't got these problems is another question...

What Bilal is trying to do is ask question that Pakistan and Pakistanis have to ask themselves to come out of this situation that they find themselves in and that is what the thread is about and not aboute what you said... Thank you!