'This is Not The Free India I've Lived In': Another Writer Return Award

[[Bregs]]

If the statements of such leaders are inflammatory, state governments are open to register a case against them.

every general Indian irrespective of party affiliations want this govt's development agenda to succeed the govt must know this

The state govt of other parties will never lodge a case against such stupid leaders to polarize voters further which is the agenda of these leaders. wait for few more months all this will be blamed on BJP coming to power and there failure to shut up or disown these leaders will backfire on them massively

 

[Styx]

imagine the outrage if one of these days some commie returning an award gets lynched too

 

[Prajapati]

every general Indian irrespective of party affiliations want this govt's development agenda to succeed the govt must know this

The state govt of other parties will never lodge a case against such stupid leaders to polarize voters further which is the agenda of these leaders. wait for few more months all this will be blamed on BJP coming to power and there failure to shut up or disown these leaders will backfire on them massively

LOL............ so what you basically want is for the BJP leaders to shut up so that "secular" leaders can have a field day

....and here I thought "seculars" were all for free speech and freedom of expression under the ambit of the law. ....... we have been misled.

 

[ranjeet]

every general Indian irrespective of party affiliations want this govt's development agenda to succeed the govt must know this

The state govt of other parties will never lodge a case against such stupid leaders to polarize voters further which is the agenda of these leaders. wait for few more months all this will be blamed on BJP coming to power and there failure to shut up or disown these leaders will backfire on them massively

It's election season, can't help it. When the entire opposition comes together to defeat one party they have to use every dirty trick. It will take us at least another decade to see elections being fought on poverty reduction, better healthcare and education for the masses.

 

[Mike_Brando]

To be fair, although on the whole I agree with @indianBong , you have a point. Some missionary tactics are abominable.

Sir,i think any type of conversion whether it's from Hinduism to some other religion or vice versa should be banned in India for the sake of maintaining secularism and peace in this country.Otherwise these conversion and counter conversion processes are going to make us a deeply divided society in the near future if not checked today.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Incorrect. VHP is not. But they never were. It is a rabble rousing org. Necessary to an extent though.

Other organizations work extensively in the rural areas, but don't come in the news because there is nothing negative to report about them. Orgs like The Art of Living, Isha, Bharat Sevasram Sangh, RSS, the Aryas, individual temples groups etc etc.

The worst part is this - the greatest wealth stored in temple coffers CAN'T be used for public welfare as decided by the temples. Only Hindu temples are Government property in this country. Hence the tones of gold in them can only be appropriated by the Govt and cant be independently used for social work. In spite of that, work is being done.

Instead of writing these highly wounded dirges full of self-pity, sit and read, and understand the wholly different ways in which Hindu society and religious practices are organised, and how others are organised. Try to see what has been handed over to whom, in other religions, and what has been reserved by the state. This rabble-rousing habit of taking the most shallow, most trivial way of thinking about a situation and whipping up oneself and other nearby fools of the same persuasion into a killing frenzy based on a non-existent victimhood should be stopped, if not for reasons of state, then at least for reasons of preventing brains from rotting away from disuse.

It is strange that an agile mind full of the vilest ideas and explanations and apologies for the murders and maimings of a community is suddenly so lethargic and sluggish when thinking about the problems of that mind's own community.

What intolerance agenda? You want to blame law and order issue of states on central government?

No.

Don't be disingenuous. The time for that is past. The blame for the law and order situation in various states is not with the central government. It is with those organisations out of which the central government sprang.

Sir,i think any type of conversion whether it's from Hinduism to some other religion or vice versa should be banned in India for the sake of maintaining secularism and peace in this country.Otherwise these conversion and counter conversion processes are going to make us a deeply divided society in the near future if not checked today.

I don't know how to answer you.

What is going on is dividing us deeply. No doubt about it. It ought to be stopped from going on in its present form. Again, no doubt about it. But how do we do it without trampling on the most precious individual liberty of all, the right to practice one's religion? Which contains within it the right to change one's practice of religion?

I agree with you in principle, but don't know how to deal with it in practice.

 

[lightoftruth]

Sir,i think any type of conversion whether it's from Hinduism to some other religion or vice versa should be banned in India for the sake of maintaining secularism and peace in this country.Otherwise these conversion and counter conversion processes are going to make us a deeply divided society in the near future if not checked today.

Banning conversions violate the fundamental rights and will never be accepted by courts unless constitutional amendment is made which will not sail through either, better way is to regulate it through district management by various paperwork and checks ,we can certainly use lethargic nature of bureaucracy.Along with it strengthen the IPC with strict punishments for monetary and forced conversions ,it will indirectly stop mass conversions and reduce the impact of any religious organization.

 

[Mike_Brando]

But how do we do it without trampling on the most precious individual liberty of all, the right to practice one's religion? Which contains within it the right to change one's practice of religion?

I agree with you in principle, but don't know how to deal with it in practice.

Exactly sir,this is where the actual problem starts.If somehow the GoI(no matter which party) tries to enforce this thing in the near future then millions of people will come out on the streets and they will label this as curbing the individual right to freedom to and personal liberty.Plus the Supreme Court being the Guardian of the Indian Constitution will most certainly veto this decision.So in reality,there is practically no way by which we can enforce this type of thing specially in a country as diverse as India.Unfortunately,the same logic will also apply in case of the Uniform Civil Code

 

[Joe Shearer]

Exactly sir,this is where the actual problem starts.If somehow the GoI(no matter which party) tries to enforce this thing in the near future then millions of people will come out on the streets and they will label this as curbing the individual right to freedom to and personal liberty.Plus the Supreme Court being the Guardian of the Indian Constitution will most certainly veto this decision.So in reality,there is practically no way by which we can enforce this type of thing specially in a country as diverse as India.Unfortunately,the same logic will also apply in case of the Uniform Civil Code

The same logic will emphatically not apply in case of the Uniform Civil Code. The crunch lies in the method of presentation. If it is presented as a code that has to be be applied immediately, by mandate by all Indian citizens, it may fail. If it is presented as an option, from which there can be no subsequent withdrawal, that route may succeed.

As for the matter of conversion, some more thought is needed.

Banning conversions violate the fundamental rights and will never be accepted by courts unless constitutional amendment is made which will not sail through either, better way is to regulate it through district management by various paperwork and checks ,we can certainly use lethargic nature of bureaucracy.Along with it strengthen the IPC with strict punishments for monetary and forced conversions ,it will indirectly stop mass conversions and reduce the impact of any religious organization.

Yes, and no. This is a little too facile, and less likely to succeed in real life than it might find support here.

As you have pointed out, banning conversions is not possible without amending the constitution. A second reason against banning it is the horrid prospect of banning a very vital part of an individual's persona.

Can the procedural approach work? It can, but we have better things to do with our hard-pressed bureaucracy. Furthermore, proving that conversions have been monetary (what does that mean, by the way?) and forced is difficult. I think more thought along these lines is needed.

 

[lightoftruth]

Yes, and no. This is a little too facile, and less likely to succeed in real life than it might find support here.

As you have pointed out, banning conversions is not possible without amending the constitution. A second reason against banning it is the horrid prospect of banning a very vital part of an individual's persona.

Can the procedural approach work? It can, but we have better things to do with our hard-pressed bureaucracy. Furthermore, proving that conversions have been monetary (what does that mean, by the way?) and forced is difficult. I think more thought along these lines is needed.

Sir if i'm not wrong somewhat similar on the lines is already in place in MP titled Madhya Pradesh Freedom of Religion (Amendment) Bill, 2013.

The Bill stipulates a jail term of up to three years or a fine up to Rs 50,000, or both, for conversion using force, allurement or any other fraudulent means. When the person being converted is a minor, a woman or an SC/ST, the jail term will extend up to four years and fine up to Rs 1 lakh.

The 1968 legislation provided a jail term of one year for forcible conversions. The term went up to two years when the convert was a minor, a woman or a member of SC/ST.

While the 1968 legislation required the priest to inform the district magistrate after the conversion ceremony, the amendment proposes to make it compulsory for the priest to take a prior permission for the proposed conversion. The amendment proposes that even the newly convert will have to inform authorities within a stipulated time.

Violations either by the priest or the convert will be punished with a jail term of up to one year or a fine of Rs 1,000 or both, if they fail to notify authorities in their residential district.

Monetary on these lines, Christian couple booked under MP’s anti-conversion law | The Indian Express

Sir no law is perfect in real life and certainly more thought is needed to walk the tight rope btw individual rights and its abuse.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sir if i'm not wrong somewhat similar on the lines is already in place in MP titled Madhya Pradesh Freedom of Religion (Amendment) Bill, 2013.

The Bill stipulates a jail term of up to three years or a fine up to Rs 50,000, or both, for conversion using force, allurement or any other fraudulent means. When the person being converted is a minor, a woman or an SC/ST, the jail term will extend up to four years and fine up to Rs 1 lakh.

The 1968 legislation provided a jail term of one year for forcible conversions. The term went up to two years when the convert was a minor, a woman or a member of SC/ST.

While the 1968 legislation required the priest to inform the district magistrate after the conversion ceremony, the amendment proposes to make it compulsory for the priest to take a prior permission for the proposed conversion. The amendment proposes that even the newly convert will have to inform authorities within a stipulated time.

Violations either by the priest or the convert will be punished with a jail term of up to one year or a fine of Rs 1,000 or both, if they fail to notify authorities in their residential district.

Monetary on these lines, Christian couple booked under MP’s anti-conversion law | The Indian Express

Sir no law is perfect in real life and certainly more thought is needed to walk the tight rope btw individual rights and its abuse.

Thank you for the reminder.

As it happens, I am aware of this and feel it is a horrible law, enacted by a legislature that is a creature of the Sangh Parivar, and is obnoxious to the spirit and the letter of the Constitution.

This is not the answer. But you are correctly implying that more search, more thought would be a good idea.

 

[magudi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/653117503296667648

 

[Joe Shearer]

https://twitter.com/x/status/653117503296667648

A really stupid interjection.

 

[magudi]

A really stupid interjection.

Couldn't agree more

Banning conversions violate the fundamental rights and will never be accepted by courts unless constitutional amendment is made which will not sail through either, better way is to regulate it through district management by various paperwork and checks ,we can certainly use lethargic nature of bureaucracy.Along with it strengthen the IPC with strict punishments for monetary and forced conversions ,it will indirectly stop mass conversions and reduce the impact of any religious organization.

Any such constitutional amendment even if passed by the parliament will be struck down by SC in no time as it violates the Basic Doctrine

 

[punit]

I have studied that, and strangely, I am fearful. It seems to be the Hindu equivalent of Christian evangelism. According to me, both should be banned, but we need to find secular, non-religious methods and processes for tribal upliftment and steps towards progress.



To be fair, although on the whole I agree with @indianBong , you have a point. Some missionary tactics are abominable.

TRIBAL religions and their practices most of them overlaps with Hinduism. at least they do not create any conflict. same can not be said for christian evangelism.