They're Both Smiling, But They're Both Pissed Off

[CONNAN]

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: They're Both Smiling, But They're Both Pissed Off

Admiral Mike Mullen (left), chairman of the US Joint Chiefs, was in Delhi to (among other things) push forward three stalled bilateral defence agreements that have been stalled with no resolution in sight. His frustration with the status quo emerged at a briefing for journalists that I attended this evening. The three agreements are the politically contentious Logistics Supply Agreement (a euphemism for the ACSA), the Communication Interoperability & Security Memorandum Agreement (CISMOA) -- without which, the US insists, India's C-130Js and P-8Is will be little more than flying hunks of metal -- and the Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-Spatial Cooperation (BECA). Status: no movement. Indian Decence Minister AK Antony reiterated New Delhi's concerns about Washington's continued supply of conventional armaments to Pakistan under the "delusion" that they're being used in the war on terror, but was politely snubbed by the Admiral, who later said, "I don't believe we've sold them anything that imbalances the capability between the two countries. We do believe they are using everything we supply them with against terror in their country. If that changes, we'd have to look at that."

 

[Spring Onion]

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: They're Both Smiling, But They're Both Pissed Off

Admiral Mike Mullen (left), chairman of the US Joint Chiefs, was in Delhi to (among other things) push forward three stalled bilateral defence agreements that have been stalled with no resolution in sight. His frustration with the status quo emerged at a briefing for journalists that I attended this evening. The three agreements are the politically contentious Logistics Supply Agreement (a euphemism for the ACSA), the Communication Interoperability & Security Memorandum Agreement (CISMOA) -- without which, the US insists, India's C-130Js and P-8Is will be little more than flying hunks of metal -- and the Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-Spatial Cooperation (BECA). Status: no movement. Indian Decence Minister AK Antony reiterated New Delhi's concerns about Washington's continued supply of conventional armaments to Pakistan under the "delusion" that they're being used in the war on terror, but was politely snubbed by the Admiral, who later said, "I don't believe we've sold them anything that imbalances the capability between the two countries. We do believe they are using everything we supply them with against terror in their country. If that changes, we'd have to look at that."

We can understand the pissing off of Mullen but Indian's pissing off over sale of few Not-State-of-the-Art F-16s or other stuff as compared to the one being sold to India not only by US but Israel, Russia, and EU countries, the Indian pissing off looks like crying without any reason

 

[SpArK]

Looks like we are not ready to play the puppet role like others.

I honestly wish F-18s dont win the MRCA just for the fact that i cant bear the sight of 2 of the US companies equipping India and Pakistan and benefiting and utilizing it for its own good.

 

[Spring Onion]

Looks like we are not ready to play the puppet role like others.

I honestly wish F-18s dont win the MRCA just for the fact that i cant bear the sight of 2 of the US companies equipping India and Pakistan and benefiting and utilizing it for its own good.

Then India should refuse straight away instead of blowing hot and cold.

This dragging on on non-pretext is just paranoia

 

[SpArK]

Then India should refuse straight away instead of blowing hot and cold.

This dragging on on non-pretext is just paranoia

You are in media. and i am sure you know about political games much better than me.

There is no straightforward refusals, cutting off etc etc in diplomatic levels.

 

[Tshering22]

We can understand the pissing off of Mullen but Indian's pissing off over sale of few Not-State-of-the-Art F-16s or other stuff as compared to the one being sold to India not only by US but Israel, Russia, and EU countries, the Indian pissing off looks like crying without any reason

I might believe Mullen to be pissed off.. but Anthony must be wetting his trousers in fear . Some defense minister we have eh? He should have been in a more quieter department like finance or economy rather than an aggressive field like defense.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

damn, he's short!

 

[Awesome]

Then India should refuse straight away instead of blowing hot and cold.

This dragging on on non-pretext is just paranoia

India can't reject the US... Even if it is sure the US is playing a double game of equipping both sides.

Pakistan is no better, thats why when we should be ditching the US and going for varied products, we're buying outdated F-16 Blk 52s, a waste of money for that price - our most expensive purchase which can't compete with India's Su-30.

For both India and Pakistan I'm reminded of Parveen Shakir's words

Kaise keh doon k mujhe chorh diya hai us ne,
Baat to sach hai magar, baat hai ruswaai ki.

Woh kahin bhi gaya, lawta to meray paas aaya,
Bus yahi baat hai achchi mere harjaai ki.

 

[pmukherjee]

We can understand the pissing off of Mullen but Indian's pissing off over sale of few Not-State-of-the-Art F-16s or other stuff as compared to the one being sold to India not only by US but Israel, Russia, and EU countries, the Indian pissing off looks like crying without any reason

Yup, our understanding is that you don't understand much, that is, if you understand anything at all. Even the 'not so state of art' block 52s that the US is supplying you are far far superior to the JF-17 Thunders that China is supplying you and which you all are drooling over. Compared to the quality of what America gives you, what the Chinese are giving you is nothing but junk. China may give you large number of cheap stuff but the real high quality stuff in Pakistan's arsenal is all American or of western origin. America has been consistently supporting you against India over the decades despite the fact that almost every Pakistani hates America.

India is not crying, we can handle whatever you have or will get in the near future, we just want America to make up their mind once and for all whether they wish to continue to support a nation that breeds terrorism and in a very direct way, threaten American interests world wide or whether they will finally realize the danger in what they are doing.

Regarding the said agreements, India will sign them when India is ready and when India is satisfied that they don't impinge on our sovereignty.
Regards.

 

[pmukherjee]

India can't reject the US... Even if it is sure the US is playing a double game of equipping both sides.

Pakistan is no better, thats why when we should be ditching the US and going for varied products, we're buying outdated F-16 Blk 52s, a waste of money for that price - our most expensive purchase which can't compete with India's Su-30.

For both India and Pakistan I'm reminded of Parveen Shakir's words

Kaise keh doon k mujhe chorh diya hai us ne,
Baat to sach hai magar, baat hai ruswaai ki.

Woh kahin bhi gaya, lawta to meray paas aaya,
Bus yahi baat hai achchi mere harjaai ki.

I second that, another saying also comes to the mind...."Hate Them or Love Them But Can't Ignore Them"

 

[Cow(ard)Boy]

damn, he's short!

This guy is our future Defense minister,happy?

 

[Kinetic]

America can try what ever they can but India should not sign these agreements at their current configuration until India specific exceptions were not given like 123 deal. We cannot allow inspection of our systems by any foreign country like some puppets of USA. We may sign the agreement but they need to change it. IPR is essential but not at the cost of security. Above all we have other options and we are buying them. US is not aiding us but competing against others to sell us weapons.

damn, he's short!

Is that the voice of a 'Think tank'??? How this contribute to the thread???

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Yup, our understanding is that you don't understand much, that is, if you understand anything at all. Even the 'not so state of art' block 52s that the US is supplying you are far far superior to the JF-17 Thunders that China is supplying you

buddy we'll be supplying those aircrafts to ourselves.

secondly, the F-16s are not outdated but they will play mostly a defensive role as far as our airspace integrity is concerned. We're only getting 18 of them.

Compared to the quality of what America gives you, what the Chinese are giving you is nothing but junk.

everything is relative....i have a problem with you using the word ''junk''

to us its treasure; for $15 million we are making these aircrafts at home (no risk of arms embargo) and they have 4th gen capabilities. All at no risk of US Congress denying the sales.

a deal like that can never be called junk


(PAF F-6 Mig-19 chinese replica 'junk' is known to have shot down indian Mig-21 which is far superior...FYI)

China may give you large number of cheap stuff but the real high quality stuff in Pakistan's arsenal is all American or of western origin. America has been consistently supporting you against India over the decades despite the fact that almost every Pakistani hates America.

I am not in position to speak on behalf of Pakistanis on this issue. But the common Pakistani in the street doesnt hate America; they are disillusioned with its foreign policy and many feel that there was no problem with terrorism until they made their way into this region by force. To a large extent, I also agree.

India is not crying, we can handle whatever you have or will get in the near future, we just want America to make up their mind once and for all whether they wish to continue to support a nation that breeds terrorism and in a very direct way, threaten American interests world wide or whether they will finally realize the danger in what they are doing.

they see us as a major ''non NATO ally'' and thusly, we are entitled to address our defence needs and have them be met (of course keeping in mind those pesky US Congressional meetings)

I'm sorry if you feel we are breeding terrorism and are one big devil. That, to me, does sound like crying. But hindustan is never out of character when they do cry about such things, its been going on for years now. We ran out of tissue paper for your river of tears.


you know, i love how your Mr. Menon put it.


Pakistan has an ''addiction'' apparently



Arms sales to Pakistan is like giving whiskey to an alcoholic: Menon

India has asked the world to discontinue arms sale to Pakistan, which is not linked to anti-terror operations.

Underlining that any such aid is like “giving whiskey to an alcoholic”, foreign secretary Shivshankar Menon told Institut Francais des Relations Internationales (IFRI), a leading French think-tank, in Paris on Wednesday, that, “For India, a stable Pakistan at peace with itself is a desirable goal. We need a peaceful periphery in our own interest, and will work with all those in Pakistan and the international community who further that goal.”

...................

“For instance, arms sales to Pakistan, which is totally unrelated to the fight against terrorism or extremism, are like serving whiskey to an alcoholic, a drug reinforcing an addiction, skewing the internal political balance, and making the consolidation of democracy more difficult,” he stressed.

in absense of more subtler & diplomatic language, i would say that this is a prime example of being a whiney b.itch on an international stage.

 

[Socialist]

Sounds like Admiral's friendship with General Kayani is paying off.He has been lobbying hard for Pakistan in State Department and Congress.

 

[Hulk]

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: They're Both Smiling, But They're Both Pissed Off

Admiral Mike Mullen (left), chairman of the US Joint Chiefs, was in Delhi to (among other things) push forward three stalled bilateral defence agreements that have been stalled with no resolution in sight. His frustration with the status quo emerged at a briefing for journalists that I attended this evening. The three agreements are the politically contentious Logistics Supply Agreement (a euphemism for the ACSA), the Communication Interoperability & Security Memorandum Agreement (CISMOA) -- without which, the US insists, India's C-130Js and P-8Is will be little more than flying hunks of metal -- and the Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-Spatial Cooperation (BECA). Status: no movement. Indian Decence Minister AK Antony reiterated New Delhi's concerns about Washington's continued supply of conventional armaments to Pakistan under the "delusion" that they're being used in the war on terror, but was politely snubbed by the Admiral, who later said, "I don't believe we've sold them anything that imbalances the capability between the two countries. We do believe they are using everything we supply them with against terror in their country. If that changes, we'd have to look at that."

Why we raise these stupid things so often? Why not let them do what they want. We do cry a lot on weapons sold to Pakistan, now I am in their team on this issue.