"Their claim is false, but they still believe it"

[Hakan]

Historian Urges Turks to Tell Their Armenian Story

ANKARA – American historian Justin McCarthy says Armenian allegations of genocide in 1915 continue to make it difficult for Turks to tell their own history of the tragic period at the end of the World War I.

McCarthy said in an interview with AA reporter in Ankara on Wednesday that he was researching the suffering of Muslims in the war, but the allegations of genocide compelled him. "I was trying to find out the population of Armenians in Anatolia before and after World War I. As a result, I found that a large number of Turks were killed. How were these Turks killed, as they were not involved in the war? Between 2.5 and three million Muslims were killed in the war. I had never thought about writing about the Armenians, but the issue chose me while I was working on the Muslim history.”

McCarthy says, "The reason for the Armenians to sustain their claims after all those years is so simple. If you keep on teaching your children hatred, they will grow up with hatred and their hatred will also continue growing.” McCarthy said the Armenian diaspora believes that they benefit from their allegations; that they will be paid compensation and make territorial claims on the Turkish towns of Kars, Erzurum, Bitlis and Van.

McCarthy argues, "Their claim is false, but they still believe it. Just as Americans of German and Irish origins call themselves American, the Armenian diaspora fear their next generations will forget their historical identity and identify themselves with the country where they live. Therefore they keep their allegations alive to bolster their integrity. They have never heard anything good about the Turks, therefore they think Turks are evil."

McCarthy said, "Finally, Turks have started to assert their historical truths against the Armenian allegations, which they were not doing until twenty years ago. Turks have to work hard to remove these prejudices. These prejudices will not be removed quickly and easily, because the other side has been working to sustain these prejudices for a century. It would take a long time because a Christian won't believe a Muslim just as a Muslim won't believe a Christian so easily and that is quite natural."

McCarthy emphasized that despite such trends, the world is not united against Turks on this matter, because the European Court of Human Rights recently exonerated Dogu Perincek, leader of Turkey's Labor Party, for his words regarding the 1915 incidents. He describes that as a good change.

McCarthy said propaganda and new legislations could be seen in the international arena on the centennial of the 1915 incidents next year. "Turks should be prepared to endure huge pressure. However, I think the situation will calm down afterwards, because the current situation cannot continue forever. 100 years is a long time. If you gather all of the Armenians from Armenia, France, England, America and all around the world and replaced them in their six claimed Anatolian provinces, the Muslim population would remain twice as large.”

Justin McCarthy has authored books titled “The Muslims and Minorities: Population of the Ottoman Anatolia and End of the Empire", "Death and Exile: Ethnic Cleansing of the Ottoman Muslims" and "Population of the Ottoman Peoples and End of the Empire.”

Copyright © 2014 Anadolu Agency

Historian urges Turks to tell their Armenian story

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

McCarthy argues, "Their claim is false, but they still believe it. Just as Americans of German and Irish origins call themselves American

???? What???? Well maybe he was just using these two as examples

 

[TruthSeeker]

???? What???? Well maybe he was just using these two as examples

He means that Armenian Americans don't want their children to forget that they are "Armenians" as have the children of German and Irish immigrants who have (mostly) abandoned their "German" or "Irish" ethnicity in favor of thinking of themselves as simply "American". So Armenian Americans keep the story of 1915 on the front burner to reinforce Armenian heritage in each successive generation of Armenian Americans.

I would think that the truth or lack thereof of an Armenian genocide could be put on a more factual, unbiased basis by some neutral study group, if both the Turkish and Armenian governments would genuinely co-operate and support some neutral body to study the history of the events with full access to the records held by both and other nations.

 

[Jaanbaz]

How come no one talks about the Genocide of Turks during the Greek invasion? The mass slaughter, burning of whole Turkish Villages and rape and murder of Muslims. Western human rights activists are very picky on who to chose it seems.

 

[544_delta]

rape and murder of Muslims.

regardless of where it happens,it somehow fails to register with most of our western friends.

 

[Jaanbaz]

regardless of where it happens,it somehow fails to register with most of our western friends.

Unfortunately the Islamic organisations are too weak to put pressure on the world powers.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Armenian genocide commemoration events planned for L.A. region today

Thousands of Armenians take to the streets of Los Angeles' Little Armenia in 2012 to mark the anniversary of the Armenian genocide of 1915. (Michael Robinson Chavez / Los Angeles Times / April24, 2012)

By Los Angeles Times staff
April 24, 2014, 8:02 a.m.

Thousands are expected to commemorate the 99th anniversary of the Armenian genocide on Thursday, with several high-profile events scheduled across Southern California.

The observances come just days after Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan offered condolences to Armenian descendants of the massacre — an atrocity that Turkey still refuses to describe as a genocide. Roughly 1.5 million Armenians were killed starting in 1915 amid the chaotic collapse of the Ottoman Empire.

With among the largest Armenian diasporas in the world, Glendale and East Hollywood will host a number of events Thursday, including a rally expected to draws thousands to Hollywood Boulevard in Little Armenia. A separate demonstration is planned for outside the Turkish consulate on Wilshire Boulevard in Los Angeles, where the prime minister's recent comment will likely be a hot topic.

“We do not see this as being something that is an adequate and appropriate acceptance of responsibility for the international crime that had been committed,” Berdj Karapetian, chairman of the Glendale chapter of the Armenian National Committee of America, told the Glendale News-Press in response to Erdogan's comments.

In his statement, Erdogan said it was "indisputable that the last years of the Ottoman Empire were a difficult period, full of suffering for Turkish, Kurdish, Arab, Armenian and millions of other Ottoman citizens, regardless of their religion or ethnic origin," but he did not specifically refer to the genocide.

Glendale Mayor Zareh Sinanyan called the statement weak and indirect.

“I think his statement is evasive and insincere. It’s not the condolences Armenians expect from the leader of the Republic of Turkey,” Sinanyan said.

Laws in California and 41 other states officially recognize the massacre as genocide, as do many nations.

Among the major public events scheduled in the area Thursday:

—The Armenian Community Coalition will host a commemoration event at 10 a.m. at Pasadena City Hall, 100 N. Garfield Ave. The event will feature several speakers.
—Unified Young Armenians will host its annual mass demonstration in Little Armenia at 10 a.m. at Hollywood Boulevard and Hobart Street.
—The Armenian Youth Federation will host its annual protest in front of the Turkish Consulate, 6300 Wilshire Blvd., Los Angeles, from 4 to 6 p.m.
—Glendale hosts it annual free, ticketed commemoration event starting at 7 p.m. at the Alex Theatre, 216 N. Brand Blvd. The event features speakers and performances.



Armenian genocide commemoration events planned for L.A. region today - latimes.com

 

[Hakan]

@atatwolf

 

[Solomon2]

Excerpted from United States Department of State / Papers relating to the foreign relations of the United States, 1915. Supplement, The World War.

 

[Solomon2]

If you keep reading the U.S. diplomatic record it becomes more and more clear that the expulsions, massacres, and starvation experienced by the Armenians were carried out with not only the knowledge but the approval of the Turkish government. The final straw for U.S. diplomats was when the "Sublime Porte" demanded that the U.S. life insurance policies held by deceased Armenians should be paid to the Porte, for their heirs were also dead which meant the Porte was now the beneficiary.

 

[Hakan]

I will respond in the morning with neutral sources.

 

[Solomon2]

I will respond in the morning with neutral sources.

The U.S. very much wanted to believe that the Turks were not engaged in these mass killings. Trade and military relations were good; for example, the U.S. built much of the Turkish Navy through U.S. companies operating out of Turkish shipyards. But as you can see in the communiqués, even Turkey's ally in the war, Germany, was horrified by what the Turks were doing.

You can now see why much of this discussion is punishable by law in Turkey: the super-criminal intent and actions of Turkey's leaders were beyond question. The only way for them to retain honor in the eyes of their people (as well as stay out of jail) was to falsify everything and enforce the lies under pain of prison, torture, or death.

Of course, it's the lasting dishonor of all Turks that they've let their leaders get away with this, that they fail to question their own legacy. Very like the Japanese, whose school textbooks airbrush Japan's role in WWII from one of aggressor and rapist into an innocent victim of the times - even to the point of telling the whopper that Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor was the result of America's entry into the War against Japan, rather than the cause of it - except the Japanese, last I checked, don't go to jail or worse for pointing out the fibs.

 

[atatwolf]

If you keep reading the U.S. diplomatic record it becomes more and more clear that the expulsions, massacres, and starvation experienced by the Armenians were carried out with not only the knowledge but the approval of the Turkish government. The final straw for U.S. diplomats was when the "Sublime Porte" demanded that the U.S. life insurance policies held by deceased Armenians should be paid to the Porte, for their heirs were also dead which meant the Porte was now the beneficiary.

US diplomats, with all respect, couldn't distinguish their a-hole from a hole in the ground. US diplomats said there buddist in mesopotamia and that they were getting murdered by Turks. Also at that time western media was very bias because of war propaganda. You can't take one diplomat and say that is the truth. You need multiple sources and west has tried for hunderd years to find evidence of systematic massacre and there is none. UK even had access to Ottoman archives. but the statistics show More Muslims died than Christians in anatolia. If there was a genocide, it was a genocide against the muslims by Armenians. I will come back to this with statistics.

 

[Solomon2]

US diplomats, with all respect, couldn't distinguish their a-hole from a hole in the ground.

Shoot the messenger! Can you understand how stupid that is?

Also at that time western media was very bias because of war propaganda.

Didn't apply to the U.S. as it wasn't in the war yet and had its own information sources separate from European countries.

If there was a genocide, it was a genocide against the muslims by Armenians.

That was indeed the official line of the Ottomans. Note that everything you've written has the purpose of justifying the murder of non-combatants on the grounds that they had co-religionists who were fighting the Ottoman state. That's still murder, atatwolf. There was NO danger to the state posed by these people as the Christians killing Turks were in the armies of the Europeans or Russians, not in the villages.

 

[Hakan]

@Solomon2

Armenians were being provoked from the outside to cause unrest with in the empire even before WW1.

Armenians were not non combatants:

Presented Officially by the Representatives of Armenia
to the Peace Conference at Versailles, on February 26th, 1919 p.6

Armenian volunteers fought on all the fronts. In France, in the Foreign Legion, by their bravery they covered themselves with glory. Scarcely one-tenth of their original number now survives. They fought in Syria and in Palestine, in the Legion of the Orient, under French command, where they hurried in response to the call of the National Delegation. In this Legion, the Armenians constituted the largest element, or more than one-half of the entire French contingent. There they took a leading part in the decisive victory of General Allenby, who paid high tribute to their valor.In the Caucasus, where in addition to over 150,000 Armenian men who served in the Russian army on all the fronts, an army of 50,000 men and thousands of volunteers fought throughout under the supreme command of General Nazarbekian. It was with these troops that, after the breakdown of the Russian army and the treaty of Brest-Litovsk the Armenians, deceived and deserted by the Georgians, and betrayed by the Tartars who made common cause with the Turks, took over the defense of the Caucasus front and, for a period of seven months, delayed the advance of the Turks. They thus rendered important services to the British army in Mesopotamia, as stated by Lord Cecil in an official letter addressed to Lord Bryce and in his response to an interpellation in the House of Commons. In addition thereto, by their resistance against the Turks until the conclusion of the armistice, they forced the Turks to send troops from Palestine to the Armenian front, and thus contributed indirectly to the victory of the Allied Army n Syria.“

Boghos Nubar’s letter to the French Foreign Minister Stephen Pichon :

“…in France, through their volunteers, who started joining the Foreign Legion in the first days and covered themselves with glory under the French flag;

In Palestine and Syria, where the Armenian volunteers, recruited by the National Delegation at the request of the government of the Republic itself, made up more than half of the French contingent and played a large role in the victory of General Allenby, as he himself and his French chiefs have officially declared;

In the Caucasus, where, without mentioning the 150,000 Armenians in the Imperial Russian Army, more than 40,000 of their volunteers contributed to the liberation of a portion of the Armenian vilayets, and where, under the command of their leaders, Antranik and Nazerbekoff, they, alone among the peoples of the Caucasus, offered resistance to the Turkish armies, from the beginning of the Bolshevist withdrawal right up to the signing of an armistice.”


28 March 1921 / Mark L. Bristol
Rear Admiral, U.S. Navy
UNITED STATES HIGH COMMISSIONER

“While the Dashnaks were in power they did everything in the world to keep the pot boiling by attacking Kurds, Turks and Tartars; by committing outrages against the Moslems; by giving no representation whatever to the Molokans which are a large factor in the population of the Caucasus Armenia; by massacring the Moslems; and robbing and destroying their homes; and finally by starting an attack against the Turks which resulted in a counter attack by the Turks, and then the Armenians deserted and ran away and even would not stand and defend their women and children. The acts of the Armenian army at Kars absolutely disgusted our Americans, including Yarrow. During the last two years the Armenians in Russian Caucasus have shown no ability to govern themselves and especially no ability to govern or handle other races under their power.”