The unification of the Arabian Peninsula?

[al-Hasani]

I can recommend the videos posted on the Youtube profile of Chatham House. A lot of interesting videos dealing with politics, economy etc. Not your average Joe speaking either but professors and leading experts. As it should be.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

What natural resources are we looking at except oil?
What about heavy industry?
KSA- assuming this is to be the major state needs to be a industrial giant like germany in EU to power this union.Otherwise the union's heavy industry will be largely dependant on outside sources and that will defeat its very purpose.
It is a viable plan but with significant economic and geopolitical obstacles.

 

[al-Hasani]

What natural resources are we looking at except oil?
What about heavy industry?
KSA- assuming this is to be the major state needs to be a industrial giant like germany in EU to power this union.Otherwise the union's heavy industry will be largely dependant on outside sources and that will defeat its very purpose.
It is a viable plan but with significant economic and geopolitical obstacles.

The oil and gas reserves on the Arabian Peninsula contain more worth than many regions overall resources combined.

KSA and the Arabian Peninsula as a whole has numerous natural riches outside of just oil and gas. Especially when it comes to minerals.
There is also presence of gold, diamonds and uranium.

In fact one of the oldest gold mines that have existed for straight 5000 years is found in Hijaz which is now part of modern-day Western KSA.

Mahd adh Dhahab - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There also exists a very big potential for alternative energy sources as well. Wind and solar in particular especially when the latter gets more developed and cheaper. For thousands of years the Arabian Peninsula had 3 of the most valuable commodities of the ancient world in abundance. Gold, incense and pearls.

Let alone when it comes to shale gas.

UPDATE 2-Saudi Arabia to join U.S. as shale gas producer| Reuters

In any case the economy is becoming less reliant on natural resources for each year and that's the only way forward. It's a long and hard process that all natural rich countries face to certain degrees.

The industrialization is an ongoing process in the entire GCC and a lot of work is needed on this front.

Not necessarily. You have forgot that all countries on the Arabian Peninsula are one of the richest on the planet (some are in fact the richest if you look at the GDP per capita) outside of Yemen and if the Arabian Peninsula becomes 1 country there will not be 1 party or region taking all the burden but everyone will do it together. Of course you will have more prosperous and valuable areas just like in every other country but the point of a unification is that all strengths (also weaknesses) become united.

 

[Gasoline]

1- One language.
2- More than 80% belongs to 1 religion.
3- Most of the arabs belongs to same tribes.
4- All of them face same enemies.
5- There is no huge differences in cultures or opinions.

So , why not.

I think that will happen beginning by the GCC firstly.

Then it will attract the other countries gradually.

 

[al-Hasani]

1- One language.
2- More than 80% belongs to 1 religion.
3- Most of the arabs belongs to same tribes.
4- All of them face same enemies.
5- There is no huge differences in cultures or opinions.

So , why not.

I think that will happen beginning by the GCC firstly.

Then it will attract the other countries gradually.

I see what you did in your second argument.

The only problem with that will be the political aspect and especially that involving the world powers (US, Russia and China). I am not sure that they would like to see such a potentially powerful country controlling most of the oil and gas in the world and major seas and points of trade etc.

Let's say that the GCC announced tomorrow that they would become 1 federal country and that no military bases (foreign) were to be allowed. Would US be happy about that? Of course not. So that's one of the obstacles.

This goes for the entire Arab world in terms of uniting. Not just the Arabian Peninsula as a whole.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Let's start a discussion regarding the topic of the GCC or the Arabian Peninsula unifying into 1 big country. Notice that there is a difference between the actual political borders of the Arabian Peninsula and the geographical borders which also consists of Jordan, Southern Iraq and parts of Syria.

How foreseeable is it and what is needed in order for it to become a reality?

I will give my own opinion later if this discussion evolves into something serious or interesting. For now I will just leave it to others to comment on. I am mostly interested in hearing users from the Arabian Peninsula and their opinion regarding this. Which on PDF translates to users from KSA mainly as there are not many active Arab users on PDF to begin with let alone users from Kuwait, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, Oman, Yemen etc. I actually think that there is none.

In the meantime I will just write some short facts. Only based on the current POLITICAL borders of the Arabian Peninsula mind you.

Area:
3,200,937 km2

If a country it would be the 7th biggest in the world.

Population:
Around 80,000,000 million as of 2014.

If a country it would be the 16th most populous country.

Economy:
GDP (nominal) $1,800-1,900 billion as of late 2014.

If a country it would have around the 10th biggest economy (GDP nominal)

GDP per capita as of late 2014:
Around $35,000 excluding impoverished Yemen.

If a country, excluding impoverished Yemen, it would be in the top 30 and among the richest considering size and population.

Let's not even discuss oil and gas reserves, natural riches in general, the strategic location, access to the Red Sea, Gulf, Arabian Sea and wider Indian Ocean and the Mediterranean Sea through the nearby Suez Canal.

Let's not forget the economic prognosis that consistently place GCC economies as among the fastest growing and their GDP per capita as among the highest in the world a long time into the future.

Or the endless potential on almost all areas that are yet to even remotely be fulfilled due to political and social reasons mainly.

​

Try to look at this scenario not necessarily from the current glasses as of 2014 but in 10-20 years time for instance where political regimes, laws etc. can have changed tremendously.

This could also lead to regional unifications elsewhere in the Arab world. I think that this will be the way forward.

No trolling please as that's not the propose of this thread.

@Arabian Legend @Yzd Khalifa @JUBA @BLACKEAGLE @Hazzy997 @Mosamania @Bubblegum Crisis @Awadd @Full Moon @Tihamah @Mootaz-khelifi @MooshMoosh @Mahmoud_EGY @Halimi @Hadbani @Haitham @burning_phoneix @FARSOLDIER @farag @Altamimi @Arabi @agentny17 @Chai @Tunisian Marine Corps @1000 @Algeria @Dino @fahd tamimi @Frogman @Hechmi Seif @Naifov @Andalusi Knight @thefreesyrian @Rakan.SA @tyrant @Ahmed Jo @ebray etc.

Why ??

Why would the arabs unite ?

You claim it is the need of the day; but please qualify your claim and present warrant.

 

[SALMAN F]

Nobody willing to give up his monarchy and join under one leadership

 

[al-Hasani]

@Hank Moody

Read my numerous posts on this topic. Most Arab users (vast majority in fact) agree with me as well as do most Arabs out there.

Nobody willing to give up his monarchy and join under one leadership

Who says that a federal state would happen under a monarchial system? Nor me nor you know what will happen in let's say 30 years time. Also if we are talking about a federal state each current monarchy can retain the power in the various federal states of the country.

Besides once again the monarchs of the Arabian Peninsula might by then only have a ceremonial role as they have in most European countries.

Yemen for instance was a monarchy for 3000 years and was ruled by 1 family for 1000 years (a branch of the Hashemites) until 50 years ago. Who in their sane minds would have believed that they would ever become a republic? Moreover at one point even becoming a communist ruled state (Southern Yemen)? The answer is almost nobody if anybody.

 

[Targon]

Arabs are by far the biggest ethnicity. Then you have Afro-Arabs, people of Turkish (as in people from modern-day Turkey not any Central Asian states or Azerbaijan), people of various South Asian origins (mostly Baluch), people speaking Southern Semitic languages (native to Southern Arabia), people of South East Asian origin (mostly Indonesia and Malaysia), some people of Persian and Lur origin and then you also have people of European descent who are mostly descendants of slaves or traders that settled. Nowadays all of those identity is Arab, they speak Arabic and are not any different from the native people. Also many people in the Arabian Peninsula, especially people from the cities are of mixed origins if you look back a few decades. Yet their identity is the Arab one.

The Afro-Arabs come from all kind of backgrounds. Horn of Africa, Western Africa and areas South of Congo. Many have nothing to do with slavery but just settled on the Arabian Peninsula as it lies strategically between Africa, Europe and the remaining Asia and is surrounded by seas connecting the world. For instance Hijaz, due to the pilgrimage, was the "New York of the East" for centuries and you have basically people from all over the Muslim world that settled in Hijaz and who are now Saudi Arabian citizens.

Let alone the migrant population that is from diverse origins as well.



As I explained then that is not even an big issue really either. See post 40 in this thread.

Are those people of Turkish origin keep their Turkish identity ? is name Turki, al-Turki related to them ? although if I remember correctly I saw a Saudi family member with this name, no idea why.

About the union, it isn't a huge problem, peninsula countries are already fine with each other with some exceptions, union wouldn't make much of a difference, they should just focus on building industry etc.

In my opinion its better to stay seperate but close, there is a saying in Turkish "Nerde çokluk, orda bokluk"(wherever there is crowd, shit there is).

Also it isn't a far sighted idea to breed like rabbits, as technology advances, need for manpower decrease, world is already too crowded and natural resources are getting insufficient. I sometimes dream of creating new viruses to decrease population.

 

[al-Hasani]

Are those people of Turkish origin keep their Turkish identity ? is name Turki, al-Turki related to them ? although if I remember correctly I saw a Saudi family member with this name, no idea why.

About the union, it isn't a huge problem, peninsula countries are already fine with each other with some exceptions, union wouldn't make much of a difference, they should just focus on building industry etc.

In my opinion its better to stay seperate but close, there is a saying in Turkish "Nerde çokluk, orda bokluk"(wherever there is crowd, shit there is).

Also it isn't a far sighted idea to breed like rabbits, as technology advances, need for manpower decrease, world is already too crowded and natural resources are getting insufficient. I sometimes dream of creating new viruses to decrease population.

Al-Turki basically means "The Turk". The eldest son of Ibn Saud was named Turki but he died young. Since then a few Al-Saud members have been named "Turki". Or more precisely a part of their often very long names contained the name. That name is rare in KSA outside of Najd.

Well, the newer generations probably do not speak a word of Turkish or very much. Some of the families of Turkish descent (read not Turkic here) have lived in Hijaz since time immortal almost. At least for a very long time. Those that probably settled shortly before modern-day KSA emerged might have closer ties with Turkey and the older generation might even speak Turkish still. They probably do.

Well, unions and all that are fine but I would prefer a real federal state to emerge. It would remove all possible rivalry once and for all and unity is strength in my book. It would make the Arabian Peninsula as a region much stronger. As much as we talk about unions, GCC etc. then those countries are still separate countries. When Qatar deals with Spain they talk with one voice etc.

Well, that's true but we already have that in KSA alone due to all the historical regions that often differ quite a lot on all fronts such as dialect, traditions, geography, cuisine, history etc.

Yet let's say that Turkey and Azerbaijan (the two most similar Turkic states IMO) for instance were direct neighbors on a peninsula moreover. Would you not put your differences aside (as big or small as they might be) and unite if you had the possibility? It's not to start a off-topic discussion just telling you a similar perspective.

Well, I am not for the breeding part either for the same reasons that you have mentioned but our South Asian friends were complaining about there "only" being 80 million people on the Arabian Peninsula. I think that this is more than enough and it's growing quite quickly moreover. Not sure if this is a good thing. I tend to think not but some people equal population with power. What can I say? Having said that then I cannot deny the fact that there are many Arabs out there and that the Arab populations are growing quickly or that having big families was traditionally seen as a good thing and as a symbol of status. Similarly with women conquests.But that can be said about every single culture some have just left it now for the exchange of 2 children, a Volvo and a dog.

 

[Gasoline]

I see what you did in your second argument.

The only problem with that will be the political aspect and especially that involving the world powers (US, Russia and China). I am not sure that they would like to see such a potentially powerful country controlling most of the oil and gas in the world and major seas and points of trade etc.

Let's say that the GCC announced tomorrow that they would become 1 federal country and that no military bases (foreign) were to be allowed. Would US be happy about that? Of course not. So that's one of the obstacles.

This goes for the entire Arab world in terms of uniting. Not just the Arabian Peninsula as a whole.

Actually , we need to choose 1 of those three countries .

And I think you know which country can help us .

 

[Sinnerman108]

@Hank Moody

Read my numerous posts on this topic. Most Arab users (vast majority in fact) agree with me as well as do most Arabs out there.



Who says that a federal state would happen under a monarchial system? Nor me nor you know what will happen in let's say 30 years time. Also if we are talking about a federal state each current monarchy can retain the power in the various federal states of the country.

Besides once again the monarchs of the Arabian Peninsula might by then only have a ceremonial role as they have in most European countries.

Yemen for instance was a monarchy for 3000 years and was ruled by 1 family for 1000 years (a branch of the Hashemites) until 50 years ago. Who in their sane minds would have believed that they would ever become a republic? Moreover at one point even becoming a communist ruled state (Southern Yemen)? The answer is almost nobody if anybody.

NO,

What you have listed in your posts are reasons why such an integration may work out very well, because of common language, traditions etc etc etc.

I want to know, what is the reason for arab countries to form a union ? or to integrate ?

If history tells us one thing, then it is that arabs have had abundant "nefaq" .

why would that trend change now ?

 

[al-Hasani]

NO,

What you have listed in your posts are reasons why such an integration may work out very well, because of common language, traditions etc etc etc.

I want to know, what is the reason for arab countries to form a union ? or to integrate ?

If history tells us one thing, then it is that arabs have had abundant "nefaq" .

why would that trend change now ?

I sense a bit of trolling. Nefaq is seen in every ethnicity and person. At least Arabs were united for centuries which not many ethnicities of this size (none in fact) can say.

No, I have also written extensively why it is needed for the future in order to have a common and strong voice. I am talking about the Arabian Peninsula specifically here.

You are welcome to reread this thread again and if you are not a fan of long posts you can take a look at post number 49 in this thread and once you have read that post you can combine those reasons with a stronger political voice, unified policy in practice, bigger independence on all fronts etc.

Or just read my first post in this thread where I give you some statistics regarding land area, population size, the size of the economy etc.

In fact I am specifically talking about a federal state.

The question that you should ask is why NOT to unify if everything tells us that there are more pros to gain this way around than NOT doing it? People of the GCC favor closer integration among each other as we know that our future is closely tied together so why not just unite now before it will be something of need in times of worry?

Actually , we need to choose 1 of those three countries .

And I think you know which country can help us .

Yes.

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Guys I was thinking about something.

Look at a map of the Arabian Peninsula and the world for a second. You have the world's biggest peninsula that is connected to several major seas and oceans and major sea trade routes. You got Africa to the West and South. Europe to the Northwest and the remaining Asia to your East. In short you are surrounded by the 3 most populous continents aside from having amble access to major sea trade routes. For instance 25% of the world's entire sea trade is going through the Red Sea which KSA has a 3000 (almost) tropical sea border with.

Now for instance in the future what stops us from making underwater pipelines that connect Oman with Pakistan/India across the Arabian Sea and from their the remaining South Asian, Central Asian and Chinese market if we want to bypass Iran? It's only about 1000 km away.

Hell, in the future what stops the region from building a land-bridge or tunnel across the tiny Strait of Hurmuz (39 km)?

With the ongoing GCC railway projects (that are being constructed while we speak) the entire Arabian Peninsula will be connected with each other. From next to the Levant (well some parts of Northern KSA are already traditional Levant but that's another discussion), Iraq, West, East and South.



What about the plans of connecting the Arabian Peninsula (Yemen) and Africa (Horn of Africa) with a land bridge or tunnel? Remember that Africa might be in shambles right now by large but we are talking about a continent of well over 1 billion people, undiscovered markets, some of the most mineral rich countries on the planet and some of the fastest growth rates. From the Horn of Africa you will have direct access to the entire Sub-Saharan Africa.

Al Noor City - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Moreover from KSA you can easily make a land bridge or tunnel to Egypt (there has already been talk about that) and that would connect us with the entire North Africa and Western Africa. All of North Africa is Arab so cooperation should not be a problem once the are calms down (which is again the key question here).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi–Egypt_Causeway

Then you could have a railway connection and trade routes that go all the way from the ME/Arabian Peninsula (with again are connected with the trades routes in the remaining Asia) to Tangier in Northern Morocco and potential across the Strait of Gibraltar and then to Spain and the entire Western Europe. Such a railway/trade route would be entirely land-based outside of the small Strait of Gibraltar (14 km).

Simiarily you could connect with Southeastern Europe (Greece, Balkans and from there Central and Eastern Europe) not necessarily through Turkey but through the sea as is already happening. Or you could enter Russian markets by going through Iraq.

It's also very possible to built underwater gas pipelines connecting Sinai for instance with Greece or Italy. Look no further than the Langeled pipeline which is 1200 km long.

I know that such pipelines already exist (Green Stream).

We only talk about trade with Asia and Europe but we totally forget a Africa in this equation.

Of course when looking at such projects I tend to include history to see whether something similar already existed a long ago and no wonder it did. The Arabian Peninsula was a essential part of all ancient trading routes.



Incense Route - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Indian Ocean trade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The New Web of World Trade

This is from 2011. Look at Africa. A unexplored continent trade wise. Totally.

I suggest reading this interesting report as well.

http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/c...onomist_intelligence_unit_the_gcc_in_2020.pdf

There is a lot more to tell but I am afraid I write too long posts for anyone to bother reading them. Just got 10 minutes (damn chemical engineering exams) of free time to write this in order to start a discussion.

EDIT: Why the hell is my post not separate but connected to an almost 1 month old post?

 

[AbidM]

Saudi Arabia needs to become less of a dictatorship before anyone will be willing to join, it's got so many backwards laws and orders, it's pretty unbelievable but if this otherworldly 'Arab Unification' you speak of, allows democracy than why not? But I don't think UAE would want to join or any other country making money from tourism.Cause you best believe whatever happens in the real paradise on earth aint going to happen in SA under this leadership.

 

[al-Hasani]

Saudi Arabia needs to become less of a dictatorship before anyone will be willing to join, it's got so many backwards laws and orders, it's pretty unbelievable but if this otherworldly 'Arab Unification' you speak of, allows democracy than why not? But I don't think UAE would want to join or any other country making money from tourism.Cause you best believe whatever happens in the real paradise on earth aint going to happen in SA under this leadership.

What the hell are you blabbering about? You are a Bangladeshi that has no clue about this region of the world or its politicies. Nor did you bother to read this thread. In short you are a clueless obviously.