The teeth of the Milgem light frigate, the Atmaca beyond line of sight strike missile

[waz]

Pakistan's C-802 has a range of 180 km while Indian AShMs like Kaliber and Brahmos have a range of 220 to 300km.

Isn't that something to be concerned about? India has signed MTCR and hence Russia can now export 600km range Brahmos to India. Indian Air Force already has tested the extended range Brahmos. Not sure about Indian navy though.

Pakistan navy needs to out-range Indian Navy effectively. Such qualitative advantages are needed for a smaller force like Pak navy to keep the bigger aggressor in check

You forgot about the CM-400AKG (air launched) aka YJ-12, it's operational max range is 400km.The surface version will be arriving with the Type054A i.e. very soon, no need to worry, as in there are no range issues here.
Ok so they can go to Russia, Pakistan can go to China and Turkey.
Also bare in mind the sheer complexity in terms of training, logistics, unforeseen costs etc, that go with acquiring such systems. The navy is expanding, and have literally put out ads for 'a few good men'. Hundreds, even thousands of more sailors will be needed for the endeavours ahead.

Our ànti ship missile inventory has increased rapidly

The Indians navy will be rocked if it tries to blockade us

The idea is to move out of this blockade narrative. Now with the expansion of the navy and procurement of advanced strike missiles, it will remain a hope, not reality.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Our ànti ship missile inventory has increased rapidly

The Indians navy will be rocked if it tries to blockade us

Let us hope we are not the ones being rocked. IN surface fleet is superior to ours both qualitatively and quantitatively. Watch out for the Israeli technology.

 

[Blacklight]

Let us hope we are not the ones being rocked. IN surface fleet is superior to ours both qualitatively and quantitatively. Watch out for the Israeli technology.

Thank You for bringing this up, there are shallow craters in Balakot, and a roasted Su-30 that say otherwise.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Much is being made of the Pakistani navy's modernisation program after the lost last two decades. The Milgem corvette/light frigate is an integral part of this modernisation drive. With the ship being inducted at a sizeable batch, attention should be drawn to the ship's strike capability and the advent of the Atmaca, trasnlated as 'Hawk' beyond line of sight anti-ship strike missile.
Atmaca was unveiled for the first time by Turkish missile systems company Roketsan during the IDEF 2019 defense exhibition in Istanbul.
Its development began 10 years ago in 2009.


The Atmaca is launched from quad launchers on deck, from the Milgem.

It's target acquisition, guidance and control is faciliated by the advanced GENESIS MİLGEM combat management system.

Statistics on the missile itself;
-A range of over 200km, that's over 107 nautical miles.
-It is subsonic.
-Utilises a 250kg-class high explosive fragmentation warhead.
-It features high resistance to countermeasures.
-Has all-weather capability.
-Has target updating/mission termination facility and a comprehensive mission planning system with 3D routing.


The serial production contract of Atmaca anti-ship missile was signed between the Presidency of Defence Industries (SSB) and Roketsan

Live firing of the Atmaca started from 2016. Photos and videos of the actual tests;

The missile is expected to enter service in mid 2020. TCG Kınalıada will be the first vessel from the Milgem class which will be equipped with the Atmaca.

Pakistan's Milgem ships will arrive in the period of 2023-2024. Long range anti-ship missiles in subcontinent waters are not new and have had a chequered history (P-15 Termit). Versatile missiles of similar operational ranges currently deployed from surface vessels include the 3M-54E (Indian Navy), Brahmos (Indian Navy) and the C-802 (Pakistani Navy).

With the arrival of Atmaca the Pakistani navy adds a powerful new system to its growing repertoire. Pakistan's navy has steadily moved from a force that would concentrate on holding the line, to one which will traverse the full breadth of its territorial waters with a renewed confidence.

With the ability of the Pakistani navy to engage threats from the very periphery of its maritime waters, as they emerge from quarters afar, gives any opposing force serious cause for concern, at the very thought of being removed from the game before it has begun.

What about our own Harbah?

You forgot about the CM-400AKG (air launched) aka YJ-12, it's operational max range is 400km.

Its 240km

 

[waz]

What about our own Harbah?

Very much in development and should be ready for deployment once the new vessels arrive.

Its 240km

Yep, but that's what's given to countries other than Pakistan, wink, wink. The limit is also 300km for the MTCR.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Thank You for bringing this up, there are shallow craters in Balakot, and the a roasted Su-30 that say otherwise.

Doesn't mean much here. PN's history is different from that of its aerial counterpart and not nearly as flattering. The foolish F-22P procurement, which is in many ways a downgrade from the OHP class it replaced, isn't going to do the service any credit.

 

[waz]

Doesn't mean much here. PN's history is different from that of its aerial counterpart and not nearly as flattering. The foolish F-22P procurement, which is in many ways a downgrade from the OHP class it replaced, isn't going to do the service any credit.

Brother yes the 71 war, but do remember we also had Captain Tasnim's actions.
Time has moved from the F-22 procurement and will stop at six ships. Yes it has deficiencies e.g. SAM cover, but also strengths i.e. it fires the C-802 missile, has the type-360 radar etc. No one system is ever perfect, the hands and wit of the user are paramount here.
Anyway, it's not for this topic. The current admiral Zafar is an excellent professional who will take the navy forward.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Brother yes the 71 war, but do remember we also had Captain Tasnim's actions.
Time has moved from the F-22 procurement and will stop at six ships. Yes it has deficiencies e.g. SAM cover, but also strengths i.e. it fires the C-802 missile, has the type-360 radar etc. No one system is ever perfect, the hands and wit of the user are paramount here.
Anyway, it's not for this topic. The current admiral Zafar is an excellent professional who will take the navy forward.

It is an excellent system. The procurement is indeed a departure from a long history of acquiring bad systems. Let us hope the current chief is as capable as ACM Sohail Aman.

Again, I would like to see us investing in highly-automated, compact yet heavily armed frigates like the Israeli latest generation corvettes. I may be wrong, but the Type 054As could have been foregone in favour of a similar system with the Milgems acting as a stop-gap measure.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I think the PN will load the C-802, Harbah and/or its new supersonic missile on the MILGEMs. But I think there's a chance the PN will consider the Atmaca, Orka LWT and SOM for use from its LRMPA.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Doesn't mean much here. PN's history is different from that of its aerial counterpart and not nearly as flattering. The foolish F-22P procurement, which is in many ways a downgrade from the OHP class it replaced, isn't going to do the service any credit.

It did not replace the OHP but the Type 21 Amazon class. Which, from the outset, had bad AA cover.

 

[waz]

It is an excellent system. The procurement is indeed a departure from a long history of acquiring bad systems. Let us hope the current chief is as capable as ACM Sohail Aman.

Again, I would like to see us investing in highly-automated, compact yet heavily armed frigates like the Israeli latest generation corvettes. I may be wrong, but the Type 054As could have been foregone in favour of a similar system with the Milgems acting as a stop-gap measure.

Admiral Zaffar is great, don't worry the navy is in the most capable hands it has been in for a long time.

I understand your point regarding the smaller corvettes (Israeli Sa'ar), but to have them instead of the Type54A just wasn't feasible in light of doctrinal changes for the navy. The increase in size of Pakistan's waters to 350 miles, the fact that the largest population centre lies on the coast , and the increase in port traffic via expansion in Baluchistan necessitated a change from a defensive holding pattern type strategy to offensive strikes, so not to yield water and allow the superior Indian navy to box Pakistan in i.e. that's not a blockade but still highly damaging.
You need ships of considerable tonnage to do this. The Sa'ar you refer to has less than half of the range of the Type 054A. It's also less heavily weaponised i.e. less VLS cells, fewer torpedo launchers, no ASW launchers, absence of supersonic missiles (due to size and lack of deck space) and so on.
For Israel it's great as they are purely defensive force, with a limited scope for offensive strikes via submarines, and they do not face a formidable naval foe.
Pakistan faces the one of top six navies in the world with significant war fighting experience. Add to this the step up on commitments and hence the acquisition of these powerful frigates.
But anyway let's keep focussed on the Atmaca.

I think the PN will load the C-802, Harbah and/or its new supersonic missile on the MILGEMs. But I think there's a chance the PN will consider the Atmaca, Orka LWT and SOM for use from its LRMPA.

The Atmaca is coming with the Milgems. What the navy decides could be a mix like you stated.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

It is an excellent system. The procurement is indeed a departure from a long history of acquiring bad systems. Let us hope the current chief is as capable as ACM Sohail Aman.

Again, I would like to see us investing in highly-automated, compact yet heavily armed frigates like the Israeli latest generation corvettes. I may be wrong, but the Type 054As could have been foregone in favour of a similar system with the Milgems acting as a stop-gap measure.

I think the PN should have back-loaded surface warships entirely.

The near-term focus (by 2030) should have been on submarines, both full-sized AIP boats and shallow-water attack (SWAT) boats. Not only that, but for the AIP boats, could've gone for China's new single-hull designs, but with focus on fuel cell AIP, pump jets, etc. If possible, tie a large purchase (12-16+) with Chinese help in developing the steel, so we can manufacture more of these submarines in Pakistan locally.

With such a fleet by 2030, I don't think anyone in their right mind would enter our seas. But for security, add a few SWAT (sub-500-ton) boats that can fire heavyweight torpedoes. Station these along our coastal and busy waters, so there's really no chance of anyone trying to impose themselves in our EEZ or SLOC.

Now, for post-2030, I would have standardized on one modern frigate design. The Turks were clearly willing to sell us help in designing a frigate, so we could leverage that and get something based on the I-Class.

Sure, a 3000-ton frigate, but with a heavy emphasis on automation, and packing it to the top with munitions. So, a 64-cell VLS suite with MR-SAM, LR-SAM and VL-LACM. We then build a fleet of 12-16 such ships by 2040/2045.

 

[RAMPAGE]

I think the PN should have back-loaded surface warships entirely.

The near-term focus (by 2030) should have been on submarines, both full-sized AIP boats and shallow-water attack (SWAT) boats. Not only that, but for the AIP boats, could've gone for China's new single-hull designs, but with focus on fuel cell AIP, pump jets, etc. If possible, tie a large purchase (12-16+) with Chinese help in developing the steel, so we can manufacture more of these submarines in Pakistan locally.

With such a fleet by 2030, I don't think anyone in their right mind would enter our seas. But for security, add a few SWAT (sub-500-ton) boats that can fire heavyweight torpedoes. Station these along our coastal and busy waters, so there's really no chance of anyone trying to impose themselves in our EEZ or SLOC.

Now, for post-2030, I would have standardized on one modern frigate design. The Turks were clearly willing to sell us help in designing a frigate, so we could leverage that and get something based on the I-Class.

Sure, a 3000-ton frigate, but with a heavy emphasis on automation, and packing it to the top with munitions. So, a 64-cell VLS suite with MR-SAM, LR-SAM and VL-LACM. We then build a fleet of 12-16 such ships by 2040/2045.

Spend ten years developing private automobile and machine industry and you will not need the Turks or the Chinese. If you have a manufacturing industry in place, you can hire a chief designer and outsource components to private contractors. It is the manufacturing industry that we need.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Spend ten years developing private automobile and machine industry and you will not need the Turks or the Chinese. If you have a manufacturing industry in place, you can hire a chief designer and outsource components to private contractors. It is the manufacturing industry that we need.

I agree. If only we had leaders who actually cared about the private sector!

 

[RAMPAGE]

I agree. If only we had leaders who actually cared about the private sector!

I actually prefer small, but high-skill workshops - similar to what they have in Japan and Germany. Our engineers, machinists, and designers should open their own businesses after graduating.

Undergraduates should spend two out of four years of their program working with these consortiums.