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The subcontinental middle class

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The subcontinental middle class


Back in the early 1990s — When I was new entry into the field of journalism I remember meeting a very senior government official in the foreign policy establishment of the country along with other fellow journalists. Back then, Pakistan had just re-entered the democratic experience and economic conditions were ostensibly not as bad as they now seemed to be. However, Indians had just embarked on the path of economic liberalization and the news about early success of the program was reaching Pakistani society. What this senior official said to us seemed prophetic now. As part of a discourse on Pak-India relations, he said that he dreaded the time when Pakistani middle class would envy Indian middle classes. My hindsight compels me to conclude that what the Pakistani government official said was right. The time when Pakistani middle classes will envy and copy Indian middle classes has arrived.

Last week the respected London-based magazine, The Economist, did a cover story on India. One interesting fact reported in the story is that Indians are now taller than they were in early 1990s when the Indian government started the policies of economic liberalization, “…For many Indians, a decade long boom has brought obvious gains. Some are physical: a study in the National Medical Journal of India last year, looking at Children among India’s wealthier population, found that at the age of 18 boys are 4.5 cm taller and 4 kg heavier than they were in 1992, when the economic reform just got going” reads the Economist. And who among the Pakistani would not like their young ones to be taller than they are? Being a father myself I can confess that each day starts with looking at your son sleeping in the cot and making guesses about the increase in height at this early stage of his life. Difficult to say how the people in Pakistan will react to this news that Indians are now taller than they were in 1990s (or before 1990s) and how their chauvinistic feeling (that they are fed with by the overly militarized state apparatus) will be affected if this news is reproduced in Pakistani media at a large scale. But one can have some sense about the popularity of Indian middle class ethos in Pakistani society by just looking at the scale of popularity of Bollywood movies in Pakistan. These movies reflect the middle class ethos of Indian society and the emerging culture of consumerism (the characteristic of consumerism has been identified as the main characteristic of middle class) in Indian society.

But this will be too simplistic a view of comparing Indian and Pakistani societies. Again comparing the upturn of Indian economy with the downturn of Pakistani economy will only produce a number of clichés and stereotypes that our media, now-a-days, is filled with. Let us discuss something different. A few months back I was astonished to the read the views of one of our leading ideologue, former Director General of ISI, General (Retd) Hameed Gul, who told a foreign newspaper that India was on the wrong side of history and therefore it would not be able to control the centrifugal forces in its society and hence there were no chances of India emerging as a great power in the coming decades. This is akin to other stereotypes about Indian society that we are regularly fed with. For instance, when we went to war with India, almost half a century ago, we were told (mostly through media) that Indians were shorter and thinner and therefore were unfit for fighting. This proved wrong when our army was met with six feet tall Indians in the battlefields. We are told that Indian society is divided into water-tight compartments of castes and the upper castes (which is smaller in number) will never allow the lower castes (which are large in number) to rise and become economically affluent. Traditional Pakistani writers saw lower castes as potential fifth columnists in Indian society which will rise against the Hindu upper caste dominated state at the centre. So in the traditional Pakistani scholarly works on India the lower castes are identified as centrifugal forces in Indian society. The events of past two decades have clearly shown that Indian society is transforming itself and lower castes are in the driving seat as far as Indian political system is concerned.

Two, apparently, unrelated developments in Indian politics have contributed heavily in broadening the base of Indian political system. First, are the economic liberalization policies of early 1990s and second is the policy of reservation of quotas in universities, government services and to some extent private sector for the backward classes of Indian society. These two developments gave rise to the emergence of lower caste middle class in the urban areas of Indian society. This lower caste middle class has shown a strong commitment to parliamentary democracy in the last 20 years as has been demonstrated by the voting patterns in parliamentary elections inIndia. Christophe Jafferelot, a French author, who has spent a life time studying Indian politics and sociology, has written in his latest work that all the lower caste put together constitute around 70 per cent of Indian society and in the past 20 years (following the emergence of Indian lower caste middle class) they have voted their fellow lower caste candidates and lower caste based political parties into parliament and state assemblies. This has resulted not only in taking the benefits of Indian economic progress to the backward classes and groups of Indian society but bringing these groups into the mainstream of Indian politics. Number of lower caste middle class people Jafferelot interviewed for his work showed strong commitment towards India’s parliamentary democracy “Insofar as it permitted the empowerment of the lower castes”.

I think nobody should deny the Pakistani state the right to carry out propaganda against India (till the time we are ready to shun our obsession with India as a perennial enemy). However the problem with this kind of propaganda is that at the end of the day, we are the only victims of this propaganda. Second problem is that this kind of thinking has stunted our mental growth and prevented us from learning from Indian experience. Surely this mindset has played no small role, over the years, in preventing us from broadening the base of our political system. Instead of accommodating more and more fringe groups into the mainstream of our politics, we have followed the programme of religiously, politically and socially excommunicating ethnic, religious groups and nationalities from our mainstream. This has stunted the growth of our political system. Perhaps the biggest feat of Indian political system is that it has grown broader and bigger by accommodating more and more groups into the mainstream. And we have been creating more fringe groups in each decade of our 60 years of history. The warning of history is not difficult to understand: if we don’t pay heed right now shortening of our system will not be measured in centimetres, but in miles.

The subcontinental middle class | Herald
2012 article, but very interesting
 
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Lol indians became taller and maybe a decade later will become fairer lol- all that thanks to the economical liberization- lol what bullshitis this?-
 
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Lol indians became taller and maybe a decade later will become fairer lol- all that thanks to the economical liberization- lol what bullshitis this?-
The Chinese and the Japanese became taller after industralisation post WW2.

YOu could contend that tat's their real height. Smaller amounts of food has othertwise caused them to adapt and grow smaller and avoid wasting extra energy moving that heavier body all day every day of your life. Justr like mountain people 'evolve' shorter, stouter bodies and larger lungs.
 
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Hilarious article, taller Indians lol

The Chinese and the Japanese became taller after industralisation post WW2.

YOu could contend that tat's their real height. Smaller amounts of food has othertwise caused them to adapt and grow smaller and avoid wasting extra energy moving that heavier body all day every day of your life. Justr like mountain people 'evolve' shorter, stouter bodies and larger lungs.

Hello we are talking about India here, country which have more hunger problem then Pakistan. Indians will remain midgets

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Lol indians became taller and maybe a decade later will become fairer lol- all that thanks to the economical liberization- lol what bullshitis this?-
Its basic economics and biology. How hard is it to understand?

Large parts of India have for centuries remained under chronic shortage of food and subsistence. This resulted in underweight, and shorter height and reduced immunity in most regions of India.

However, hunger has been reducing in India steadily across regions and nutrition increasing for a while now. Consequently, Indians are now getting taller and gaining weight compared to their predecessors.

Research has been done and documented. You are free to peruse the published research.
 
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The Chinese and the Japanese became taller after industralisation post WW2.

YOu could contend that tat's their real height. Smaller amounts of food has othertwise caused them to adapt and grow smaller and avoid wasting extra energy moving that heavier body all day every day of your life. Justr like mountain people 'evolve' shorter, stouter bodies and larger lungs.

Height is dependent mostly on the atmosphere the climate clean air oxygen- food and nutrition s helps makes the bones or inner system healthy-

And even if I assume you are right Japanese and Chinese took almost a century to grow- to reflect on the demography- like a generation of short breed died passed to new relatively large generation-
In case of india author is talking about decades only- it doesn't make sense-
 
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It's true! North Koreans are much shorter than South Koreans due to the food shortages they have faced even though they were the same height before and during the Korean War. There is not much arable land in North Korea and the weather conditions are really harsh. Much of their food is provided through foreign aid programs.
 
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Its basic economics and biology. How hard is it to understand?

Large parts of India have for centuries remained under chronic shortage of food and subsistence. This resulted in underweight, and shorter height and reduced immunity in most regions of India.

However, hunger has been reducing in India steadily across regions and nutrition increasing for a while now. Consequently, Indians are now getting taller and gaining weight compared to their predecessors.

Research has been done and documented. You are free to peruse the published research.

Bro as species human beings are getting smaller shorter as the centuries pass by-

Maybe you guys are growing because you are indians the super humans- you can do anything- even reverse the effects of evolutions- :tup:-

It's true! North Koreans are much shorter than South Koreans due to the food shortages they have faced even though they were the same height before and during the Korean War. There is not much arable land in North Korea and the weather conditions are really harsh. Much of their food is provided through foreign aid programs.

Your post is an insult to the fats or particularly shorty fat midgets we have running around- we have overweight shorts- fat shorts- bulky short guys every where- why dont they grow taller instead of becoming fater by eating more food?- make sense bro make sense-
 
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Height is dependent mostly on the atmosphere the climate clean air oxygen- food and nutrition s helps makes the bones or inner system healthy-

And even if I assume you are right Japanese and Chinese took almost a century to grow- to reflect on the demography- like a generation of short breed died passed to new relatively large generation-
In case of india author is talking about decades only- it doesn't make sense-
Bro as species human beings are getting smaller shorter as the centuries pass by-

Maybe you guys are growing because you are indians the super humans- you can do anything- even reverse the effects of evolutions- :tup:-
My friend, I say this to you. Please do you research. You have been grossly misinformed.

Human height is dependent on food and nutrition along with other factors like climate.
How men have gained 4inches in height in 100 years: Nourishment and living conditions have helped men grow taller | Mail Online
This is one example.

- Among others is the astounding and fast growth in height of Nordic people in under 2 decades because of a change of food availability and selection.

- As another member mentioned, an example is the Koreans. The South Koreans are now substantially taller than North Koreans, who just 60 years ago were exactly the same.

Lastly, this is not some fun random fact type of thing made up of some people experiences.
This was a research conducted and finally published in the National Medical Journal of India(one of the topmost in India).


The essence is that as Nations get better at food security, become richer and provide a better life style to their people, their people start growing in height and weight.
 
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Your post is an insult to the fats or particularly shorty fat guys we have running around- we have overweight shorts fats bulky guys every where why dont they grow taller instead of becoming fater?- make sense bro make sense-

I'm not talking about the people who were adults during the war. I'm talking about the kids who were born after the war.

Martin Bloem is head of nutrition at the World Food Programme, which has been providing food aid to North Korea since 1995. He says poor diet in the early years of life leads to stunted growth.

"Food and what happens in the first two years of life is actually critical for people's height later," he says.


In the 1990s North Korea suffered a terrible famine. Today, according to the World Food Programme, "one in every three children remains chronically malnourished or 'stunted', meaning they are too short for their age".

source: bbc
 
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Bro as species human beings are getting smaller shorter as the centuries pass by-

Maybe you guys are growing because you are indians the super humans- you can do anything- even reverse the effects of evolutions- :tup:-



Your post is an insult to the fats or particularly shorty fat midgets we have running around- we have overweight shorts- fat shorts- bulky short guys every where- why dont they grow taller instead of becoming fater by eating more food?- make sense bro make sense-
Here, another example:

Males from the Netherlands increased in height by 1.41cm per decade between 1871 and 1980.
Germany (1.25cm), Denmark (1.24cm) and Spain (1.19cm) next in the list.
Professor Timothy Hatton, professor of economics at the University of Essex, said: “Increases in human stature are a key indicator of improvements in the average health of populations. The evidence suggests that the improving disease environment, as reflected in the fall in infant mortality, is the single most important factor driving the increase in height. The link between infant mortality and height has already been demonstrated by a number of studies.”

Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands hit the heights in European growth study | euronews, world news


@JonAsad - Countries with better health and food are getting taller. Its not just food. Its a whole host of healthy lifestyle that a nation gives its people - like medical facilities, less disease, better income, more space to live, etc, etc.
 
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Its possible, when you consider the fact that an average Pakistani is now shorter than what he was five decades ago. Maybe its the Muhajir population from India which brought down the Pakistani average.

What fact, hardly a report worth considering? Do you understand how much difference 4 inches make? It means Indian are taller then Pakistanis on average now lol

And IMF, UN, WB, Asian Bank all proves that average person in Pakistan is better of and less hungry then India.
 
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@VCheng - you are back. Your opinion on OP. Not on the bloody height discussions.

To put is succinctly, Pakistan is the next North Korea, where a starving and illiterate population is held hostage by a lucky few, while they believe that world is out to destroy them but they have nuclear weapons to prevent that but they have to eat grass to remain safe.

It will not be pretty when this illusion falls apart, as it must. The cracks are already there to see.
 
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