The Roorkee Internment Camp

[Baibars_1260]

The Roorkee Internment Camp


The following account is based off a recent interview I had with a 87 year old survivor of the Pakistan Civil War who was interned for two years by the Indian Army from December 1971 to January 1974. To protect the identity of the person certain personal details have been omitted. Some PDF members may have surviving relatives who were interned in the same camp, and thus may be able to identify this person. It is requested that the person's privacy be respected.

1. Tell us about your life immediately before the Civil War?

I was born in the former Indian state then known as the United Provinces in the city of Gorakhpur. I was educated in Lucknow. My husband belonged to Faizabad from the same province.
Both our families were prosperous and educated with significant urban and rural properties. Partition violence saw our families divided . My own family stayed in India, though at the time of my marriage in 1952, my husband's entire family had moved to Karachi in West Pakistan.
Shortly after my marriage, my husband and I moved to Dacca, then East Pakistan in late 1952.
My husband, an engineer by profession set up a business both manufacturing, and dealing in industrial spare parts serving the industries there. We prospered and were living comfortably in the Gulshan area of Dacca in our own home. I had three children.

In early 1971 my eldest daughter had just finished her intermediate science from Dacca University

2. Where were you towards the end of the Civil War and how did you survive the aftermath ?
We were unprepared. My husband was apolitical and he felt that the horrible Civil War would soon be over. As a civilian, and a prominent businessman with substantial business and social contacts within the Bengali community, he didn't feel threatened. We had nothing to do with either armed factions of the civil war. It was only towards mid December 1971, that a friend of ours warned us that our lives were in danger. There was imminent danger of ethnic cleansing. My husband still did not believe we were in danger. Even if India had won the war we would simply be reverting to becoming Indian citizens, or becoming Bangladeshi citizens.

A Pakistani Army truck turned up at our house on 16th December 1971 with a Pakistani officer and a few troops. The officer asked us to leave our home immediately and get into the truck. We were to move to the Cantonment.

"But you have surrendered " my husband said.

"Yes, we have. The Indian Army has asked us to assist in evacuating civilians, and we are retaining our weapons and transport till all endangered civilians can be moved to safety. Please don't waste time and get your family into the truck. "

As we were getting into truck an armed mob rapidly collected outside our house, but were held off by the soldiers who pointed their weapons. As we moved out I looked back, and saw the mob descend on my house and begin looting it.

Further down the road we were stopped by a larger and more heavily armed mob which even our soldiers would not have been able to fend off. We were saved by an Indian Army truck that instantly turned up and began following us. The Indian Army escorted us all the way into the Cantonment area. When we arrived at the cantonment it was packed with civilians and families of Pakistan Armed Forces personnel. There were a few Indian Army personnel present. The Pakistani troops still had their weapons. The Indian Army officers advised us not to leave the premises under any circumstances. Shortly afterwards more Indian troops arrived, and the Pakistani troops surrendered their weapons. We were informed we were officially Prisoners of War. We stayed in the cantonment for a few days until the Indian army told us of their plans for us. Armed forces personnel would be treated as Prisoners of War under the Geneva Convention. As enemy civilians we would be moved temporarily to an internment camp under Indian Army protection and International Red Cross supervision for quick repatriation to Pakistan. There was much confusion as to who exactly was a civilian, and who was an armed forces person as officially the wives and children of the soldiers were also civilians.

We were eventually told that civilians like us who had no connection with the armed forces, would be treated separately, and would be transferred quickly to West Pakistan. We were put in separate trains in batches. A large batch of about 2000 of us were in a train traveling towards Delhi when the train was diverted to the town of Roorkee. We were told that Pakistan had closed the border to traffic, and our repatriation would have to wait till the issue could be sorted out through negotiations. Till that time we would be interned. We arrived in Roorkee towards the fourth week of December 1971. We had no idea then we would be interned for two long years.

3. Were you or your husband able to contact your respective family members ?

No, there was no way for either me or my husband to contact our respective families. My parents and all my brothers and sisters were in India, and my husbands parents, and siblings were in West Pakistan. Because our whereabouts were not known we were presumed dead by both our families.

4. So what happened when you arrived at Roorkee?

It was a large camp, one of the many that India has set up to imprison almost 100,000 of its enemy civilians. The Roorkee camp was one of the larger camps was probably an army barrack, or a government worker's housing establishment of some kind that had been converted as an internment camp. It was very spread out over 20 to 30 acres , with a number of separate single story buildings in rows, called "halls".
The camp was fenced in with double rows of barbed wire fencing with one outer and one inner entry gate. There was a commandant's office outside.

This was a civilian camp for upper and upper middle class internees who were from diverse backgrounds. There were doctors, engineers, teachers, bankers, police officers, merchant marine officers, private sector individuals from tea garden managers, to export import business houses, insurance, employees of foreign airlines. There were a small number of government officials, and civil service officials as well.

5.Were there any injured or sick amongst you ?

Yes, some were injured, and the last we saw of them after we got off the train was being whisked away in an army ambulance to a hospital.

6.So how did the Indian Army organize the camp ?

Only the unmarried men were separated and housed separately. The families with the parents and children were kept together in separate halls. Single unmarried or widowed women, shared a hall with a family.

We were two to three families to a "hall", but since the rooms were large and airy we didn't feel cramped. We were provided beds and blankets. It was very cold there. There were separate washing and toilet facilities.

The "halls" and inner area were strictly out of bounds to Indian Army personnel, who only patrolled the outer perimeter. There was a Colonel who was the camp commandant who turned up every morning and evening to enquire if there were any complaints. This was not an armed forces camp, so the Indians were not worried about us attempting to escape, nor did they feel threatened by us. We had nowhere to go..

7. What about your food and clothes...?

At first the food was frugal and monotonous, but still adequate . Every morning there was tea and two puris with some sort of bhaji given to each person in the morning. Children under 12 years were provided half liter of milk. The day meal and night meal was the same basically a little daal, a vegetable curry and roti . The food was strictly vegetarian.

We had no clothes other than what we had been wearing when we left and these deteriorated rapidly.

8. So it was like this for two years...?

No, after the first month the Indians asked us to organize ourselves and informed us that we were not going home soon. So we literally set up a whole colony.
We had our own kitchen, our own tailoring shop to repair our clothes and our own school, our own clinic.

The doctors amongst us were supported by hastily trained female members of our camp who delivered babies ( yes, a few of our female camp members were pregnant when we got interned.). The Indian Army and International Red Cross provided basic medical supplies, and basic educational material for children. Food was brought in to our kitchen and we prepared the food ourselves in a langar style. There were engineers amongst us including my husband, who took up the maintenance work of the utilities whenever there was a breakdown repairing the systems themselves. The Indians provided tools and spares. Basically the Indians left us to ourselves for the first 6 months. But things began to change...

9. Were there any deaths in the camp...?
Yes, of course, very frequently. Women died in childbirth, others sickened and died , some died of natural causes. Roorkee had an Indian Muslim population nearby in a village with a graveyard. When someone died the Indian Army would requisition the bier ( taboot) from the village and drag the imam over to perform the namaz e janaza and carry off the body in a truck .. A few immediate relatives if available were allowed to accompany the body to the graveyard for burial, but sometimes it was a single person and the Indian Army would simply ask the villagers to perform the last rites.

10. How did your situation change.

( To be continued...)

 

[Krptonite]

The Roorkee Internment Camp


The following account is based off a recent interview I had with a 87 year old survivor of the Pakistan Civil War who was interned for two years by the Indian Army from December 1971 to January 1974. To protect the identity of the person certain personal details have been omitted. Some PDF members may have surviving relatives who were interned in the same camp, and thus may be able to identify this person. It is requested that the person's privacy be respected.

1. Tell us about your life immediately before the Civil War?

I was born in the former Indian state then known as the United Provinces in the city of Gorakhpur. I was educated in Lucknow. My husband belonged to Faizabad from the same province.
Both our families were prosperous and educated with significant urban and rural properties. Partition violence saw our families divided . My own family stayed in India, though at the time of my marriage in 1952, my husband's entire family had moved to Karachi in West Pakistan.
Shortly after my marriage, my husband and I moved to Dacca, then East Pakistan in late 1952.
My husband, an engineer by profession set up a business both manufacturing, and dealing in industrial spare parts serving the industries there. We prospered and were living comfortably in the Gulshan area of Dacca in our own home. I had three children.

In early 1971 my eldest daughter had just finished her intermediate science from Dacca University

2. Where were you towards the end of the Civil War and how did you survive the aftermath ?
We were unprepared. My husband was apolitical and he felt that the horrible Civil War would soon be over. As a civilian, and a prominent businessman with substantial business and social contacts within the Bengali community, he didn't feel threatened. We had nothing to do with either armed factions of the civil war. It was only towards mid December 1971, that a friend of ours warned us that our lives were in danger. There was imminent danger of ethnic cleansing. My husband still did not believe we were in danger. Even if India had won the war we would simply be reverting to becoming Indian citizens, or becoming Bangladeshi citizens.

A Pakistani Army truck turned up at our house on 16th December 1971 with a Pakistani officer and a few troops. The officer asked us to leave our home immediately and get into the truck. We were to move to the Cantonment.

"But you have surrendered " my husband said.

"Yes, we have. The Indian Army has asked us to assist in evacuating civilians, and we are retaining our weapons and transport till all endangered civilians can be moved to safety. Please don't waste time and get your family into the truck. "

As we were getting into truck an armed mob rapidly collected outside our house, but were held off by the soldiers who pointed their weapons. As we moved out I looked back, and saw the mob descend on my house and begin looting it.

Further down the road we were stopped by a larger and more heavily armed mob which even our soldiers would not have been able to fend off. We were saved by an Indian Army truck that instantly turned up and began following us. The Indian Army escorted us all the way into the Cantonment area. When we arrived at the cantonment it was packed with civilians and families of Pakistan Armed Forces personnel. There were a few Indian Army personnel present. The Pakistani troops still had their weapons. The Indian Army officers advised us not to leave the premises under any circumstances. Shortly afterwards more Indian troops arrived, and the Pakistani troops surrendered their weapons. We were informed we were officially Prisoners of War. We stayed in the cantonment for a few days until the Indian army told us of their plans for us. Armed forces personnel would be treated as Prisoners of War under the Geneva Convention. As enemy civilians we would be moved temporarily to an internment camp under Indian Army protection and International Red Cross supervision for quick repatriation to Pakistan. There was much confusion as to who exactly was a civilian, and who was an armed forces person as officially the wives and children of the soldiers were also civilians.

We were eventually told that civilians like us who had no connection with the armed forces, would be treated separately, and would be transferred quickly to West Pakistan. We were put in separate trains in batches. A large batch of about 2000 of us were in a train traveling towards Delhi when the train was diverted to the town of Roorkee. We were told that Pakistan had closed the border to traffic, and our repatriation would have to wait till the issue could be sorted out through negotiations. Till that time we would be interned. We arrived in Roorkee towards the fourth week of December 1971. We had no idea then we would be interned for two long years.

3. Were you or your husband able to contact your respective family members ?

No, there was no way for either me or my husband to contact our respective families. My parents and all my brothers and sisters were in India, and my husbands parents, and siblings were in West Pakistan. Because our whereabouts were not known we were presumed dead by both our families.

4. So what happened when you arrived at Roorkee?

It was a large camp, one of the many that India has set up to imprison almost 100,000 of its enemy civilians. The Roorkee camp was one of the larger camps was probably an army barrack, or a government worker's housing establishment of some kind that had been converted as an internment camp. It was very spread out over 20 to 30 acres , with a number of separate single story buildings in rows, called "halls".
The camp was fenced in with double rows of barbed wire fencing with one outer and one inner entry gate. There was a commandant's office outside.

This was a civilian camp for upper and upper middle class internees who were from diverse backgrounds. There were doctors, engineers, teachers, bankers, police officers, merchant marine officers, private sector individuals from tea garden managers, to export import business houses, insurance, employees of foreign airlines. There were a small number of government officials, and civil service officials as well.

5.Were there any injured or sick amongst you ?

Yes, some were injured, and the last we saw of them after we got off the train was being whisked away in an army ambulance to a hospital.

6.So how did the Indian Army organize the camp ?

Only the unmarried men were separated and housed separately. The families with the parents and children were kept together in separate halls. Single unmarried or widowed women, shared a hall with a family.

We were two to three families to a "hall", but since the rooms were large and airy we didn't feel cramped. We were provided beds and blankets. It was very cold there. There were separate washing and toilet facilities.

The "halls" and inner area were strictly out of bounds to Indian Army personnel, who only patrolled the outer perimeter. There was a Colonel who was the camp commandant who turned up every morning and evening to enquire if there were any complaints. This was not an armed forces camp, so the Indians were not worried about us attempting to escape, nor did they feel threatened by us. We had nowhere to go..

7. What about your food and clothes...?

At first the food was frugal and monotonous, but still adequate . Every morning there was tea and two puris with some sort of bhaji given to each person in the morning. Children under 12 years were provided half liter of milk. The day meal and night meal was the same basically a little daal, a vegetable curry and roti . The food was strictly vegetarian.

We had no clothes other than what we had been wearing when we left and these deteriorated rapidly.

8. So it was like this for two years...?

No, after the first month the Indians asked us to organize ourselves and informed us that we were not going home soon. So we literally set up a whole colony.
We had our own kitchen, our own tailoring shop to repair our clothes and our own school, our own clinic.

The doctors amongst us were supported by hastily trained female members of our camp who delivered babies ( yes, a few of our female camp members were pregnant when we got interned.). The Indian Army and International Red Cross provided basic medical supplies, and basic educational material for children. Food was brought in to our kitchen and we prepared the food ourselves in a langar style. There were engineers amongst us including my husband, who took up the maintenance work of the utilities whenever there was a breakdown repairing the systems themselves. The Indians provided tools and spares. Basically the Indians left us to ourselves for the first 6 months. But things began to change...

9. Were there any deaths in the camp...?
Yes, of course, very frequently. Women died in childbirth, others sickened and died , some died of natural causes. Roorkee had an Indian Muslim population nearby in a village with a graveyard. When someone died the Indian Army would requisition the bier ( taboot) from the village and drag the imam over to perform the namaz e janaza and carry off the body in a truck .. A few immediate relatives if available were allowed to accompany the body to the graveyard for burial, but sometimes it was a single person and the Indian Army would simply ask the villagers to perform the last rites.

10. How did your situation change.

( To be continued...)

A very fascinating insight into the bygone era, eargerly awaiting the second part, keep up the good work.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Even the IA couldn't really control the Pandora's box it had opened by training and unleashing the mukhti bahini.

 

[Baibars_1260]

The Roorkee Internment Camp


The following account is based off a recent interview I had with a 87 year old survivor of the Pakistan Civil War who was interned for two years by the Indian Army from December 1971 to January 1974. To protect the identity of the person certain personal details have been omitted. Some PDF members may have surviving relatives who were interned in the same camp, and thus may be able to identify this person. It is requested that the person's privacy be respected.

1. Tell us about your life immediately before the Civil War?

I was born in the former Indian state then known as the United Provinces in the city of Gorakhpur. I was educated in Lucknow. My husband belonged to Faizabad from the same province.
Both our families were prosperous and educated with significant urban and rural properties. Partition violence saw our families divided . My own family stayed in India, though at the time of my marriage in 1952, my husband's entire family had moved to Karachi in West Pakistan.
Shortly after my marriage, my husband and I moved to Dacca, then East Pakistan in late 1952.
My husband, an engineer by profession set up a business both manufacturing, and dealing in industrial spare parts serving the industries there. We prospered and were living comfortably in the Gulshan area of Dacca in our own home. I had three children.

In early 1971 my eldest daughter had just finished her intermediate science from Dacca University

2. Where were you towards the end of the Civil War and how did you survive the aftermath ?
We were unprepared. My husband was apolitical and he felt that the horrible Civil War would soon be over. As a civilian, and a prominent businessman with substantial business and social contacts within the Bengali community, he didn't feel threatened. We had nothing to do with either armed factions of the civil war. It was only towards mid December 1971, that a friend of ours warned us that our lives were in danger. There was imminent danger of ethnic cleansing. My husband still did not believe we were in danger. Even if India had won the war we would simply be reverting to becoming Indian citizens, or becoming Bangladeshi citizens.

A Pakistani Army truck turned up at our house on 16th December 1971 with a Pakistani officer and a few troops. The officer asked us to leave our home immediately and get into the truck. We were to move to the Cantonment.

"But you have surrendered " my husband said.

"Yes, we have. The Indian Army has asked us to assist in evacuating civilians, and we are retaining our weapons and transport till all endangered civilians can be moved to safety. Please don't waste time and get your family into the truck. "

As we were getting into truck an armed mob rapidly collected outside our house, but were held off by the soldiers who pointed their weapons. As we moved out I looked back, and saw the mob descend on my house and begin looting it.

Further down the road we were stopped by a larger and more heavily armed mob which even our soldiers would not have been able to fend off. We were saved by an Indian Army truck that instantly turned up and began following us. The Indian Army escorted us all the way into the Cantonment area. When we arrived at the cantonment it was packed with civilians and families of Pakistan Armed Forces personnel. There were a few Indian Army personnel present. The Pakistani troops still had their weapons. The Indian Army officers advised us not to leave the premises under any circumstances. Shortly afterwards more Indian troops arrived, and the Pakistani troops surrendered their weapons. We were informed we were officially Prisoners of War. We stayed in the cantonment for a few days until the Indian army told us of their plans for us. Armed forces personnel would be treated as Prisoners of War under the Geneva Convention. As enemy civilians we would be moved temporarily to an internment camp under Indian Army protection and International Red Cross supervision for quick repatriation to Pakistan. There was much confusion as to who exactly was a civilian, and who was an armed forces person as officially the wives and children of the soldiers were also civilians.

We were eventually told that civilians like us who had no connection with the armed forces, would be treated separately, and would be transferred quickly to West Pakistan. We were put in separate trains in batches. A large batch of about 2000 of us were in a train traveling towards Delhi when the train was diverted to the town of Roorkee. We were told that Pakistan had closed the border to traffic, and our repatriation would have to wait till the issue could be sorted out through negotiations. Till that time we would be interned. We arrived in Roorkee towards the fourth week of December 1971. We had no idea then we would be interned for two long years.

3. Were you or your husband able to contact your respective family members ?

No, there was no way for either me or my husband to contact our respective families. My parents and all my brothers and sisters were in India, and my husbands parents, and siblings were in West Pakistan. Because our whereabouts were not known we were presumed dead by both our families.

4. So what happened when you arrived at Roorkee?

It was a large camp, one of the many that India has set up to imprison almost 100,000 of its enemy civilians. The Roorkee camp was one of the larger camps was probably an army barrack, or a government worker's housing establishment of some kind that had been converted as an internment camp. It was very spread out over 20 to 30 acres , with a number of separate single story buildings in rows, called "halls".
The camp was fenced in with double rows of barbed wire fencing with one outer and one inner entry gate. There was a commandant's office outside.

This was a civilian camp for upper and upper middle class internees who were from diverse backgrounds. There were doctors, engineers, teachers, bankers, police officers, merchant marine officers, private sector individuals from tea garden managers, to export import business houses, insurance, employees of foreign airlines. There were a small number of government officials, and civil service officials as well.

5.Were there any injured or sick amongst you ?

Yes, some were injured, and the last we saw of them after we got off the train was being whisked away in an army ambulance to a hospital.

6.So how did the Indian Army organize the camp ?

Only the unmarried men were separated and housed separately. The families with the parents and children were kept together in separate halls. Single unmarried or widowed women, shared a hall with a family.

We were two to three families to a "hall", but since the rooms were large and airy we didn't feel cramped. We were provided beds and blankets. It was very cold there. There were separate washing and toilet facilities.

The "halls" and inner area were strictly out of bounds to Indian Army personnel, who only patrolled the outer perimeter. There was a Colonel who was the camp commandant who turned up every morning and evening to enquire if there were any complaints. This was not an armed forces camp, so the Indians were not worried about us attempting to escape, nor did they feel threatened by us. We had nowhere to go..

7. What about your food and clothes...?

At first the food was frugal and monotonous, but still adequate . Every morning there was tea and two puris with some sort of bhaji given to each person in the morning. Children under 12 years were provided half liter of milk. The day meal and night meal was the same basically a little daal, a vegetable curry and roti . The food was strictly vegetarian.

We had no clothes other than what we had been wearing when we left and these deteriorated rapidly.

8. So it was like this for two years...?

No, after the first month the Indians asked us to organize ourselves and informed us that we were not going home soon. So we literally set up a whole colony.
We had our own kitchen, our own tailoring shop to repair our clothes and our own school, our own clinic.

The doctors amongst us were supported by hastily trained female members of our camp who delivered babies ( yes, a few of our female camp members were pregnant when we got interned.). The Indian Army and International Red Cross provided basic medical supplies, and basic educational material for children. Food was brought in to our kitchen and we prepared the food ourselves in a langar style. There were engineers amongst us including my husband, who took up the maintenance work of the utilities whenever there was a breakdown repairing the systems themselves. The Indians provided tools and spares. Basically the Indians left us to ourselves for the first 6 months. But things began to change...

9. Were there any deaths in the camp...?
Yes, of course, very frequently. Women died in childbirth, others sickened and died , some died of natural causes. Roorkee had an Indian Muslim population nearby in a village with a graveyard. When someone died the Indian Army would requisition the bier ( taboot) from the village and drag the imam over to perform the namaz e janaza and carry off the body in a truck .. A few immediate relatives if available were allowed to accompany the body to the graveyard for burial, but sometimes it was a single person and the Indian Army would simply ask the villagers to perform the last rites.

( To be continued...)

10. How did your situation change.?
You,must remember that the Indian army was least interested in holding us. They wanted us out of there and back home as quickly as possible. We were not war criminals but just ordinary civilians. Meanwhile the Indian authorities decided to get international agencies involved.

The UN and International Red Cross even released funds for a tiny financial allowance so that we could buy some things for our children. We couldn't use these funds since we were interned and had no access to shopping . But the Indians found a solution.

The Indian Army set up a "canteen" or store in the inner premises with most items of everyday use available such as men's shaving accessories , toothbrushes etc. The Indians issued a primitive card system where the total prepaid amount was listed and then an amount deducted for each purchase. This brought us much relief and now we could give our children candy, toffees and and even story books etc.

Life became much easier. We still had no mail or contact with our loved ones.
The deaths in the camp however had a peculiar effect on both the Indian Army, and the local Indian Muslim population. Because the Indian Army would barge into the mosque, and drag the imam over and then carry the body for burials it was hard to keep the secret that there was a civilian internment camp in the vicinity. Initially the local muslims kept a diplomatic silence but then began to talk. This attracted the attention of the local politicians.

Not that the Indian Army was bothered. In fact they made a virtue of the situation, calling the imam over to perform weddings in the camp amongst the camp inmates. The Indian Army got even more brazen. They turned directly to their Indian Muslim citizens for help. They wanted assistance in dealing with us for our day to day needs. Eventually they got hold of a respected local muslim politician called Haji Sultan to form a shopping committee. Haji Sultan would visit the camp twice a week and take a list of all the things we needed. We ordered cloth for our children's clothes to be stitched by the sewing machine loaned to us. Simple things like scissors to give our men a haircut. Then the army allowed us a supply of meat and eggs twice a week, via Haji Sultan. The canteen paid Haji Sultan through our Red Cross funded cards. The value of goods brought in by Haji Sultan was far in excess of what he actually charged the IA canteen. The balance cost was obviously being born by Indian Muslims secretly donating. The Indian Army was of course aware of this and once again they decided to make another change.


11. What was that .. ?

A year had passed since our internment. The Indians were aware through interviews with us, that a few of us had living relatives in India. By a process which is still unknown, they successfully managed to trace our relatives, and "leak" out to them that their people were alive and well . Why they did this is unclear, and I can only speak on the basis of my personal experience; but my brother and parents who has long given us up for dead suddenly became aware that I and my children were interned in Roorkee. My brother who was a prominent lawyer practicing in the Allahabad court, turned up to see the camp commandant and requested that he be allowed to see us.

The Colonel sahib was stunned and said this was highly unusual. He was personally responsible for our safety and he couldn't put an unknown civilian in contact with any of the internees. The most he could do is bring us out to his office after we first identified the person through the barbed wire.

When the Colonel came inside the camp to see us, it was outside his normal routine which caused a great consternation amongst the camp inmates. As I, my husband and children followed the Colonel to the gate a crowd collected near the barbed wire inner ring shouting "Let her go ". They feared we were being taken for execution.

The Colonel was extremely worried as he walked us into his office. But I didn't care . The moment I saw my brother I fell into his arms sobbing.

It was a tearful reunion. We could only talk briefly as the Indian guards told the Colonel that unless we went back to camp safe and sound there was an imminent danger of a violent riot in the camp. My brother told me he would come again bringing my mother and father along. He also told me my father was very sick and confined to a wheelchair and did not have long to live.

We went inside again much to the Colonel's relief. When my brother arrived after two weeks with my parents, the Colonel Sahib was taking no chances. He made us announce why we were going to the office and my frail father in his wheel chair was wheeled out near the gate to show the camp inmates the reason I was going outside.

Things got much easier. My brother visited us regularly. He gave us some money which our Colonel Sahib dutifully added to our canteen card. The camp authorities allowed gifts by relatives. We got some modest clothes, and books to cure the boredom . We even got bats and balls for our children to play cricket matches. We finally started getting mail. Heavily censored small Red Cross post cards routed weeks earlier via Switzerland simply stating all was well.


12.How did you communicate with the Colonel ?

In English mostly but the Colonel Sahib spoke perfect Urdu, and could read and write the language well . He was originally from Lahore having had his early education in Pakistan. Even the notices posted on our bulletin boards were in Urdu and English both.

13. So how did your repatriation process progress..,?
Then came the final announcement that we would be going home in batches. The dates would be announced but we should be ready .

A meeting was arranged to inform us how we would be traveling. Then the Colonel Sahib at our meeting made a stunning announcement .

"Those who have origins in India, and were born here have the right to remain in India as Indian citizens and after registration with the civil authorities we could walk out of the camp tomorrow. "
He pointed to me as an example. He wanted a head count as to how many people would stay back.
No one raised their hands.

The Colonel Sahib was disgusted.

"We will need more buses" he told his junior officer.

( to be concluded)

 

[Baibars_1260]

10. How did your situation change.?
You,must remember that the Indian army was least interested in holding us. They wanted us out of there and back home as quickly as possible. We were not war criminals but just ordinary civilians. Meanwhile the Indian authorities decided to get international agencies involved.

The UN and International Red Cross even released funds for a tiny financial allowance so that we could buy some things for our children. We couldn't use these funds since we were interned and had no access to shopping . But the Indians found a solution.

The Indian Army set up a "canteen" or store in the inner premises with most items of everyday use available such men's shaving accessories , toothbrushes etc. The Indians issued a primitive card system where the total prepaid amount was listed and then an amount deducted for each purchase. This brought us much relief and now we could give our children candy, toffees and and even story books etc.

Life became much easier. We still had no mail or contact with our loved ones.
The deaths in the camp however had a peculiar effect on both the Indian Army, and the local Indian Muslim population. Because the Indian Army would barge into the mosque, and drag the imam over and then carry the body for burials it was hard to keep the secret that there was a civilian internment camp in the vicinity. Initially the local muslims kept a diplomatic silence but then began to talk. This attracted the attention of the local politicians.

Not that the Indian Army was bothered. In fact they made a virtue of the situation, calling the imam over to perform weddings in the camp amongst the camp inmates. The Indian Army got even more brazen. They turned directly to their Indian Muslim citizens for help. They wanted assistance in dealing with us for our day to day needs. Eventually they got hold of a respected local muslim politician called Haji Sultan to form a shopping committee. Haji Sultan would visit the camp twice a week and take a list of all the things we needed. We ordered cloth for our children's clothes to be stitched by the sewing machine loaned to us. Simple things like scissors to give our men a haircut. Then the army allowed us a supply of meat and eggs twice a week, via Haji Sultan. The canteen paid Haji Sultan through our Red Cross funded cards. The value of goods brought in by Haji Sultan was far in excess of what he actually charged the IA canteen. The balance cost was obviously being born by Indian Muslims secretly donating. The Indian Army was of course aware of this and once again they decided to make another change.


11. What was that .. ?

A year had passed since our internment. The Indians were aware through interviews with us, that a few of us had living relatives in India. By a process which is still unknown, they successfully managed to trace our relatives, and "leak" out to them that their people were alive and well . Why they did this is unclear, and I can only speak on the basis of my personal experience; but my brother and parents who has long given us up for dead suddenly became aware that I and my children were interned in Roorkee. My brother who was a prominent lawyer practicing in the Allahabad court, turned up to see the camp commandant and requested that he be allowed to see us.

The Colonel sahib was stunned and said this was highly unusual. He was personally responsible for our safety and he couldn't put an unknown civilian in contact with any of the internees. The most he could do is bring us out to his office after we first identified the person through the barbed wire.

When the Colonel came inside the camp to see us, it was outside his normal routine which caused a great consternation amongst the camp inmates. As I, my husband and children followed the Colonel to the gate a crowd collected near the barbed wire inner ring shouting "Let her go ". They feared we were being taken for execution.

The Colonel was extremely worried as he walked us into his office. But I didn't care . The moment I saw my brother I fell into his arms sobbing.

It was a tearful reunion. We could only talk briefly as the Indian guards told the Colonel that unless we went back to camp safe and sound there was an imminent danger of a violent riot in the camp. My brother told me he would come again bringing my mother and father along. He also told me my father was very sick and confined to a wheelchair and did not have long to live.

We went inside again much to the Colonel's relief. When my brother arrived after two weeks with my parents, the Colonel Sahib was taking no chances. He made us announce why we were going to the office and my frail father in his wheel chair was wheeled out near the gate to show the camp inmates the reason I was going outside.

Things got much easier. My brother visited us regularly. He gave us some money which our Colonel Sahib dutifully added to our canteen card. The camp authorities allowed gifts by relatives. We got some modest clothes, and books to cure the boredom . We even got bats and balls for our children to play cricket matches. We finally started getting mail. Heavily censored small Red Cross post cards routed weeks earlier via Switzerland simply stating all was well.


12.How did you communicate with the Colonel ?

In English mostly but the Colonel Sahib spoke perfect Urdu, and could read and write the language well . He was originally from Lahore having had his early education in Pakistan. Even the notices posted on our bulletin boards were in Urdu and English both.

13. So how did your repatriation process progress..,?
Then came the final announcement that we would be going home in batches. The dates would be announced but we should be ready .

A meeting was arranged to inform us how we would be traveling. Then the Colonel Sahib at our meeting made a stunning announcement .

"Those who have origins in India, and were born here have the right to remain in India as Indian citizens and after registration with the civil authorities we could walk out of the camp tomorrow. "
He pointed to me as an example. He wanted a head count as to how many people would stay back.
No one raised their hands.

The Colonel Sahib was disgusted.

"We will need more buses" he told his junior officer.

( to be concluded)

14. How did you travel back home ?

We were issued a batch number and serial number with strict instructions to stay together and always keep our children with us.
We were put in a special train that took us to Amritsar and then a bus took us to Wagah. It was strange to see the news reel cameras focused at us as we got out of our buses.
We could see Pakistan through the gates at the check point.

But before we crossed over a strange thing happened. Our meagre belongings were suddenly subjected to a search. Many of us had retained the clothes we had been wearing when we had arrived in the camp two years earlier as souvenirs. These tattered remnants were the only reminders of our stay. The army confiscated each and every one of these clothes and dumped them in a huge pile just a few meters from the gate. Also dumped were our broken and worn shoes . We had already been given fresh clothes and shoes before our journey but these were souvenir we had hoped to carry. The Indians were determined that no negative memories are carried over with us. We were allowed our dairies, and letters but even the canteen cards had to be surrendered before we left. Instead the Indian officers gifted us a copy of the Quran printed in India as a souvenir. This was clever. We could never refuse a Quran and we could never throw it away. It would remain with us as a reminder of the Indian Army.

15. What was your final moment you left India ?

We waited patiently all day at the checkpoint. At a predetermined time in the late afternoon our Ranger guards opened the check point gates. . The Indian officers handed a list to the Red Cross officials who handed it to their counterparts across the border.
We were waived through. As I walked through the gates with my children I looked back only once because I knew I would never see my mother, and brother again. My father had died while I was interned.

On the other side a Pakistani army officer waived us into a truck which took us to a verification camp in Lahore where our identities were verified based on the Red Cross identity cards and list. We had no passports or travel documents. We spent the night at the verification camp and were released next morning with tickets valid for 48 hours on any train on the Pakistan Railways to any destination. But this was not needed. My husbands brother has arrived to receive us with full reservations on the train to Karachi where we arrived the following day.
( Concluded).

 

[Baibars_1260]

Another account of the Roorkee POW camp is retold in this book
"The Boy Refugee" Is a seminal work, a one of a kind book by Dr. Khawaja Azimuddin, a well-known gastrointestinal surgeon from Houston, Texas. One could ask why this fact is important to mention in a book review, but the answer is clearly within its pages.

Houston Doctor is The Boy Refugee

The Boy Refugee is a seminal work, a one of a kind book by Dr. Khawaja Azimuddin, a well-known gastrointestinal surgeon from Houston, Texas. One could ask why this fact is important to mention in a…

indiacurrents.com

This book is non-fiction, one which details a segment of a journey, that of a young boy of about 8 who spends over two years of his life as a Pakistani prisoner of war (POW) along with his family in the town of Roorkee, India. This saga started in the year 1972 following the birth of a new country called Bangladesh (former East Pakistan) in December 1971.

During the year 1947, when the British hurriedly left their partitioned empire, lines were drawn on the basis of religion and two countries namely India and Pakistan came into being. It turned out to be a bloodbath. History repeated itself in 1971 but these timelines were drawn on the basis of language while another country was born out of
Pakistan named Bangladesh. Many perished during this time as revenge often overtook reason well into the year 1972.

Khawaja Azimuddin’s minority Urdu-speaking family was on the losing side of the resulting historical events. The regional and global chess players were also in the picture as the movement by the Bengali majority, which gave many sacrifices, achieved its goal of independence with India’s direct military action. And the Urdu speakers in the area, many who preferred a united Pakistan, suddenly became unwanted refugees like Author Azimuddin, in the land of their birth.


“This book is dedicated to refugees all around the world,” states the writer right from the onset.

Sometimes the biggest challenge for non-fiction writers is how to make their book interesting enough for readers. The fact of the matter is that very few books have been written on Bangladesh’s independence in 1971 and its aftermath by those that lost (or from those who were not in any position of influence at that time). And none have been written from this particular viewpoint that of a 10-year-old boy (at the time) who was caught up in one of the furious funnel clouds of history.

This is where the reader will discover a truly unique book. Dr. Azimuddin today is accomplished in many ways and has helped many of his patients in fighting cancer in Houston, Texas. But in this book, he is an innocent kid taking us on a journey from Dhaka (Dacca then) though most of northern India to Roorkee. Through his childhood lens of wonder, we get a look at war, camp life, human relationships, and survival. His parents, siblings, and friends all have a major role in The Boy Refugee, but one cannot forget his “Little Green Suitcase” of notes and memories which one can describe as equally fascinating.

He lets us share his observations through such sentences here: “The Abduls, our house helps, were among the Bengalis. I was quite sad that they had left and without them, I felt very alone in our huge house. I went out to the backyard to play with my pet pigeon, Kabooter. I’d had six pigeons but a few weeks ago, all but one of them had flown away. Perhaps they too had sensed a need to return to their families. Kabooter was the youngest and had stayed behind, he was very attached to me.”

The innocence of youth reveals many truths in the book. The role of the Indian troops in safeguarding some of the Urdu speaking community after the birth of Bangladesh gets some mention: “The Indians knew that if they abandoned them, the Biharis would be killed in masses, and fearing international condemnation, they felt obligated to protect us, at least for the time being. And so, by a twist of fate, our enemy became our savior and protector.”

On the creation of a new country and its aftermath, its real impact on the Biharis can be felt through this work too: “During these days of confusion, no one knew exactly what to do or what would happen next. We knew that East Pakistan was no more and that, we Biharis were not welcome in Bangladesh. But West Pakistan was far away. Essentially, we were stateless.” (A reminder here to our readers that many of these Biharis are still living in refugee camps today in Bangladesh).

There are competing narratives on what really happened in the years 1971-72 in former East Pakistan. There was considerable loss of life as a new country, known today as Bangladesh was born. Parts of this book will not please some large groups, depending on which narrative they adhere to. But we all know that a 10-year-old boy can be as frightfully honest as he wants to be on sharing his observations. Dr. Azimuddin has not written this book from the perspective of any one country. His lens throughout its pages is overtly human and in parts really absorbing.

 

[peagle]

10. How did your situation change.?
You,must remember that the Indian army was least interested in holding us. They wanted us out of there and back home as quickly as possible. We were not war criminals but just ordinary civilians. Meanwhile the Indian authorities decided to get international agencies involved.

The UN and International Red Cross even released funds for a tiny financial allowance so that we could buy some things for our children. We couldn't use these funds since we were interned and had no access to shopping . But the Indians found a solution.

The Indian Army set up a "canteen" or store in the inner premises with most items of everyday use available such as men's shaving accessories , toothbrushes etc. The Indians issued a primitive card system where the total prepaid amount was listed and then an amount deducted for each purchase. This brought us much relief and now we could give our children candy, toffees and and even story books etc.

Life became much easier. We still had no mail or contact with our loved ones.
The deaths in the camp however had a peculiar effect on both the Indian Army, and the local Indian Muslim population. Because the Indian Army would barge into the mosque, and drag the imam over and then carry the body for burials it was hard to keep the secret that there was a civilian internment camp in the vicinity. Initially the local muslims kept a diplomatic silence but then began to talk. This attracted the attention of the local politicians.

Not that the Indian Army was bothered. In fact they made a virtue of the situation, calling the imam over to perform weddings in the camp amongst the camp inmates. The Indian Army got even more brazen. They turned directly to their Indian Muslim citizens for help. They wanted assistance in dealing with us for our day to day needs. Eventually they got hold of a respected local muslim politician called Haji Sultan to form a shopping committee. Haji Sultan would visit the camp twice a week and take a list of all the things we needed. We ordered cloth for our children's clothes to be stitched by the sewing machine loaned to us. Simple things like scissors to give our men a haircut. Then the army allowed us a supply of meat and eggs twice a week, via Haji Sultan. The canteen paid Haji Sultan through our Red Cross funded cards. The value of goods brought in by Haji Sultan was far in excess of what he actually charged the IA canteen. The balance cost was obviously being born by Indian Muslims secretly donating. The Indian Army was of course aware of this and once again they decided to make another change.


11. What was that .. ?

A year had passed since our internment. The Indians were aware through interviews with us, that a few of us had living relatives in India. By a process which is still unknown, they successfully managed to trace our relatives, and "leak" out to them that their people were alive and well . Why they did this is unclear, and I can only speak on the basis of my personal experience; but my brother and parents who has long given us up for dead suddenly became aware that I and my children were interned in Roorkee. My brother who was a prominent lawyer practicing in the Allahabad court, turned up to see the camp commandant and requested that he be allowed to see us.

The Colonel sahib was stunned and said this was highly unusual. He was personally responsible for our safety and he couldn't put an unknown civilian in contact with any of the internees. The most he could do is bring us out to his office after we first identified the person through the barbed wire.

When the Colonel came inside the camp to see us, it was outside his normal routine which caused a great consternation amongst the camp inmates. As I, my husband and children followed the Colonel to the gate a crowd collected near the barbed wire inner ring shouting "Let her go ". They feared we were being taken for execution.

The Colonel was extremely worried as he walked us into his office. But I didn't care . The moment I saw my brother I fell into his arms sobbing.

It was a tearful reunion. We could only talk briefly as the Indian guards told the Colonel that unless we went back to camp safe and sound there was an imminent danger of a violent riot in the camp. My brother told me he would come again bringing my mother and father along. He also told me my father was very sick and confined to a wheelchair and did not have long to live.

We went inside again much to the Colonel's relief. When my brother arrived after two weeks with my parents, the Colonel Sahib was taking no chances. He made us announce why we were going to the office and my frail father in his wheel chair was wheeled out near the gate to show the camp inmates the reason I was going outside.

Things got much easier. My brother visited us regularly. He gave us some money which our Colonel Sahib dutifully added to our canteen card. The camp authorities allowed gifts by relatives. We got some modest clothes, and books to cure the boredom . We even got bats and balls for our children to play cricket matches. We finally started getting mail. Heavily censored small Red Cross post cards routed weeks earlier via Switzerland simply stating all was well.


12.How did you communicate with the Colonel ?

In English mostly but the Colonel Sahib spoke perfect Urdu, and could read and write the language well . He was originally from Lahore having had his early education in Pakistan. Even the notices posted on our bulletin boards were in Urdu and English both.

13. So how did your repatriation process progress..,?
Then came the final announcement that we would be going home in batches. The dates would be announced but we should be ready .

A meeting was arranged to inform us how we would be traveling. Then the Colonel Sahib at our meeting made a stunning announcement .

"Those who have origins in India, and were born here have the right to remain in India as Indian citizens and after registration with the civil authorities we could walk out of the camp tomorrow. "
He pointed to me as an example. He wanted a head count as to how many people would stay back.
No one raised their hands.

The Colonel Sahib was disgusted.

"We will need more buses" he told his junior officer.

( to be concluded)

This is the biggest BS I have read in my life,
reads like a visit to a holiday camp, freaking ridiculous.
The information provided does not make sense, unless it is viewed purely devoid of all other information or any common sense.

 

[Baibars_1260]

This is the biggest BS I have read in my life,
reads like a visit to a holiday camp, freaking ridiculous.
The information provided does not make sense, unless it is viewed purely devoid of all other information or any common sense.

Instead of swearing post a counter-narrative. I gave a double reference with Dr Khwaja Azimuddin's post above.
There are other accounts such as this article ( Link ) on the " India Resists " web site. "India Resists " is a left wing opposition site so they have little reason to skew facts in favor of Hindutva nationalism.
The author of the article quotes from the book "
Warriors after War: Indian and Pakistani Retired Military Leaders Reflect on Relations between the Two Countries, Past, Present and Future (Peter Lang, 2011)."
There are still people alive who will refute or confirm Dr. Khwaja Azimuddin's narrative, or the person's account I posted.
The purpose of posting this thread is to dispassionately verify what happened.

 

[Baibars_1260]

@peagle
Here is another account although it is about Camp 95 near Ranchi and deals with an army person's account.
The narrative does not mention abuse or denial of medical care by the Indian Army.

My father, a Pakistani prisoner of war in India

A daughter’s tribute to the father who never recovered from his war wounds.

www.aljazeera.com

There is also a narrative by Ikram Sehgal which I am not able to access in the Pathfinder group. His account relates to events possibly before full fledged hostilities broke out in 1971 because a description of the account refers to the Pakistani High Commission being still functional.

Here is another detailed account by Major Shamshuddin of Camp 40 in Meerut.

From regular POW Camp to Model Camp – the story of 1971

Major (Retd) Shamsuddin was a lieutenant in December 1971 and was posted in a Signal unit in Pasrur, near Sialkot. It was commonly known that war with India

nation.com.pk

 

[peagle]

Instead of swearing post a counter-narrative. I gave a double reference with Dr Khwaja Azimuddin's post above.
There are other accounts such as this article ( Link ) on the " India Resists " web site. "India Resists " is a left wing opposition site so they have little reason to skew facts in favor of Hindutva nationalism.
The author of the article quotes from the book "
Warriors after War: Indian and Pakistani Retired Military Leaders Reflect on Relations between the Two Countries, Past, Present and Future (Peter Lang, 2011)."
There are still people alive who will refute or confirm Dr. Khwaja Azimuddin's narrative or the person's account I posted.
The purpose of posting this thread is to dispassionately verify what happened.

I was not swearing, it is an expressive term, it is perfectly acceptable to express extreme displeasure, the use of languages changes with time, just as being gay no longer mean happy but homosexual, BS can be accepted as an expressive term to empress extreme displeasure. But, everything is relative at an individual level. Still, I apologise if it caused offence, but the displeasure I felt reading this piece does not come close to what I felt.

Let’s not get stuck in the left wing so they cannot mean this or right wing therefore they have to mean that, information means nothing if it comes across as meaningless, and lies or misinformation hidden within truths does not mean it is all ok and acceptable. It colours the whole story, so rather then pick and choose, and limit ones understanding it is better to not accept things at face value.

I’ve pointed out before there is a habit of accepting facts at face value to form conclusions, but when taken as a whole the facts contradict each other.

In a previous discussion you highlighted with examples that Pakistanis had already destroyed their equipment before surrendering to India. But here they have weapons and trucks even after the surrender, and there is an in effect a secondary surrender. It contradicts your previous point of view, whether you justify it or not, it’s unfair to pick and choose to form simple conclusions. I rarely am impressed by people, and your knowledge honestly impresses me, but you have certain old habits among Pakistanis to accept easy conclusions.

I only read the first two posts, I could take no more, there were lot of contractions, but I will concentrate on two, so, according to this story the Indians wanted to take them to Pakistan but en-route the Pakistanis refused to accept them and they were diverted to a camp, very handy indeed. If we assume that the war to the west was still fresh, that would have resulted in few weeks delay at most.
Then the claim is the Indians wanted to let them go so they can be in Pakistan but it was the Pakistanis being troublesome, it would required more negotiations, I mean the level of intellect required to believe this crap is astounding.

It is this kind of literature that has allowed stupid narratives to exist, and our previous generation has accepted it as the gospel or the Gita truth. Stop referencing but question the story, does it make sense? For far too long Pakistanis’ have a habit of accepting easy conclusions, especially the ones that portray Pakistan bad, India good, such a shame.

This is ridiculous beyond doubt. I will not be contributing to this thread again. I did not want to contribute to the previous thread either, but did due to respect for your knowledge and how you come across, but there is no 1971 syndrome or anything of the kind, it may exist in another generation, that’s largely died away, but I can assure you the new generation and I am not young anymore does not give a crap, except for sake of understanding all sides of the story.
This here is nothing but vile disguised as literature.

 

[Baibars_1260]

I’ve pointed out before there is a habit of accepting facts at face value to form conclusions, but when taken as a whole the facts contradict each other.
In a previous discussion you highlighted with examples that Pakistanis had already destroyed their equipment before surrendering to India. But here they have weapons and trucks even after the surrender, and there is an in effect a secondary surrender.

There was a ceremonial surrender with obsolete small arms and multiple secondary actual surrenders at different locations over a phased manner. Lt.Shamshuddin's account in the link above mentions this.
"
I was part of the arms laying ceremony at Dacca, and even today after 46 years I find it difficult to express the pain I felt on that fateful day.
After the surrender we were allowed to keep our arms and ammunition as the Mukti Bahinis were still about and this saved us from attack, till the time we had our weapons with us even the Indians behaved nicely."

It contradicts your previous point of view, whether you justify it or not, it’s unfair to pick and choose to form simple conclusions. I rarely am impressed by people, and your knowledge honestly impresses me, but you have certain old habits among Pakistanis to accept easy conclusions.

There is no contradiction. If large amounts of weapons has been captured in East Pakistan the Indians would have been glorifying that through film, video, and photographic evidence. I already pointed links to how a victorious army displays captured equipment in all wars, with the most telling example of the East German surrender of it's equipment to NATO after the fall of the Berlin wall.

I only read the first two posts, I could take no more, there were lot of contractions, but I will concentrate on two, so, according to this story the Indians wanted to take them to Pakistan but en-route the Pakistanis refused to accept them and they were diverted to a camp, very handy indeed.

If we assume that the war to the west was still fresh, that would have resulted in few weeks delay at most.
Then the claim is the Indians wanted to let them go so they can be in Pakistan but it was the Pakistanis being troublesome, it would required more negotiations, I mean the level of intellect required to believe this crap is astounding.

A civilian 87 year old lady was just recounting the events as they happened . Obviously, the deception was on the part of the Indians to prevent an escape attempt, and keep the transition in order. The camps had been prepared well in advance . There was no diplomatic communication between India and Pakistan and the full implementation of the ceasefire and disengagement only happened in February 1972. During the tripartite talks in Delhi in 1973, and 1974, India tried to delink the repatriation of civilians to the armed forces personnel which was obviously unacceptable.

It is this kind of literature that has allowed stupid narratives to exist, and our previous generation has accepted it as the gospel or the Gita truth. Stop referencing but question the story, does it make sense? For far too long Pakistanis’ have a habit of accepting easy conclusions, especially the ones that portray Pakistan bad, India good, such a shame.

Quite to the contrary, accounts such as these show the resilience of our people in the face of adversity due to a cruel pre-planned Civil War imposed on us by a very cunning and vicious enemy. Such stories of fortitude must be preserved for posterity, as those who put their lives, and liberty on the line for our nation fade away. Their courage and sacrifices must be acknowledged. The children who were interned, have still some more years to live, but their memories would be only from a child's point of view, and not as one who be aware of the bigger picture.

This is ridiculous beyond doubt. I will not be contributing to this thread again. I did not want to contribute to the previous thread either, but did due to respect for your knowledge and how you come across, but there is no 1971 syndrome or anything of the kind, it may exist in another generation, that’s largely died away, but I can assure you the new generation and I am not young anymore does not give a crap, except for sake of understanding all sides of the story.
This here is nothing but vile disguised as literature.

Thank you If you have noticed, this thread is in the Pakistan History forum. The purpose of posting it was to verify if the account is correct which is why I mentioned in the OP that other PDF members may have links to survivors from the Roorkee Camp. If the moderators choose to delete this thread, it is their prerogative. What the WhatsApp generation feels is irrelevant. Future Historians would not be using social media chat as a primary source of historical data. History is objective about events that have happened . No one has invented a Time Machine that can be used to go back and change history yet.

 

[peagle]

What the WhatsApp generation feels is irrelevant. Future Historians would not be using social media chat as a primary source of historical data. History is objective about events that have happened . No one has invented a Time Machine that can be used to go back and change history yet.

The WhatsApp generation and the one before, the one I belong to has learnt to question stupid narratives that make no sense.

I have listened to the generation prior, the blind generation, the generation who talked in riddles and poetry mixed with empty logic. I have listened to them for endless hours talking rubbish and contradicting themselves within the same sentences and same mini speeches. I have heard them rubbish Pakistan and talk big just about everyone else in the world.

I have heard them so often my ears, my mind, my senses are astounded by their blindness, thank God for the WhatsApp generation because they will produce a better negative then the one given by the earlier generations.

There is vile murder on the Indian streets and you find them still refuting, I have heard an Indian foreign secretary declaring Chinese believe they lost the war in 1962, another Indian foreign secretary declare that Pakistan gained independence from India not the British. Those are the lies they tell at the highest level. We cant even be bothered to make fair conclusions about ourselves, except pile more lazy conclusions.

They set an environment where our well meaning folks choose to believe it blindly, that's shameful, thank God for the WhatsApp generation, I rather they have lack of knowledge right now, then be totally misinformed to the level of accepting a narrative that spits in our face.

I have already highlighted the contradictions, they do not make sense, repeating does not make them ok or acceptable.

 

[Capt. Karnage]

A very interesting account. Thanks for posting it. I too once have been to Roorkee for taking up an government job exam. It's a small city in the Himalayan state of Uttarakhand with no modern infrastructure as one finds in big cities.

 

[Baibars_1260]

There is vile murder on the Indian streets and you find them still refuting, I have heard an Indian foreign secretary declaring Chinese believe they lost the war in 1962, another Indian foreign secretary declare that Pakistan gained independence from India not the British. Those are the lies they tell at the highest level. We cant even be bothered to make fair conclusions about ourselves, except pile more lazy conclusions.

For your information I am the prime source of the OP, and my post is based off a special phone interview with the person who now lives in North America. I called the person up through a contact, because I wanted to verify other online accounts I have read, and this would be a good way to find out. With her permission I recorded the interview, and edited the notes to preserve her privacy and identity. The person will not be living much longer, but she was coherent, her memory was sharp, and she didn't contradict herself. She is not an illiterate transfer from Geneva camp to Orangi ( one slum to another ), but a highly educated person and the spouse of a prominent businessman ruined by the Civil War. The conversation continued to how she restarted her life in Karachi from zero, and how her daughter started working and how her children coped with the trauma. They eventually recovered to become a professional working family and moved to North America.
It was a good to hear her account, and I believe her. I checked out her claim of Indian Muslims getting involved in helping the POWs which is also retold in Major Shamshuddin's narrative.
Isn't this a better way to learn about the past ?

 

[jamahir]

@Baibars_1260, nice accounts, dear sir.