The reason behind Greece's recent arms deals

[Foinikas]

Since I'm one of the very few Greek members here,I'd like to offer you some insight and information about our side of the story.

You've probably heard or read about our recent arms purchases. You probably wonder why is a country that has been in an economic crisis,buying all these expensive weapons?

The first reason is that during the crisis,the governments from around 2012 to 2019 and especially during the SYRIZA rule from 2015-2019,the Armed Forces had been neglected. Before the crisis,we had ordered 6 FREMM Frigates from France. Sarkozy was also offering us Rafales back then as well.

"On 22 January 2009 the Hellenic Navy announced an order for six FREMM to replace an equal number of Elli-class frigates.[54] After the Greek government-debt crisis this was cut down to between two and four ships equipped with SCALP Naval, with France alleged to have offered them to Greece at no cost for the first five years. Germany objected to this deal in October 2011[55] and no deal has been signed. In February 2013 though and during the formal visit of the President of France, François Hollande, in Athens, according to press reports an agreement which includes the long-term leasing of two FREMM frigates (Normandie and Provence according to initial reports) to the Hellenic Navy has been reached.[56] On 12 January 2018 the Greek daily newspaper Kathimerini reported that the Greek government was set to enter talks with France regarding the procurement of two FREMM frigates, with an option for an additional two. Contacts between Greece and France were to begin initially at a military level, starting in February 2018.[57][58] In April 2018, Greek deputy Minister for National Defence Fotis Kouvelis stated that an agreement between France and Greece was reached for a five-year lease of two FREMM frigates, which could had been handed over as early as August 2018.[59] After a few days, on 25 April 2018 the Greek minister of Defense Panos Kammenos denied any information regarding the purchase of two frigates from France.[60] Eventually, Greece abandoned all plans for the purchase of FREMMs in 2019 and steered all attention to the new FDI Belharra multi-purpose frigates, offered by Naval Group.[61]"

The result of that was for us to stay behind in the Navy,while Turkey was producing ships like crazy.
After the fall of the SYRIZA government in 2019,information started coming out about how much the Armed Forces had been neglected:

-Our Type 214 submarines lacked modern torpedos to have the edge. The new government finally ordered 36 new DM2A4 Seehecht or SeaHake Mod 4 torpedos,as well as the modernisation of a number of SUT Mod0 torpedos to SUT Mod4.

-A big number of the Mirage 2000s were not flying due to lack of spare parts. The previous governments had neglected this but the problem was solved fast and the new government signed FOS deals.

-The army had been left without modern IFVs and MRAPs. While Turkey had been producing thousands of MRAPs and armored vehicles,we had been left with about 2,000 M113s and from the original 501 BMP-1 Ost that we had bought from East German stocks in the early '90s,we donated 100 to Iraq and sold or donated 100 to Egypt. We've started converting the rest to ZU-23-2 carriers.

The SYRIZA (Coalition of Radical Left) government had a policy of appeasement and instead was focused more on Gay Pride parades and LGBTQ+ rights,as well as signing the deal for the Macedonia naming dispute.
Some quotes by SYRIZA MPs on TV:
"We will heavily reduce arms spending. Asked "What if something happens with Turkey,on the other side?" he replied "We'll risk it."
Another one said "It's not a big deal if you lose some islands. You can recapture them. Or not.

However,Panos Kammenos,who was leader of the ANEL party that ruled together with SYRIZA,had signed the deal for the upgrade of 84 F-16s to F-16V.

Now,when New Democracy got in power,Erdogan started a series of provocations. First he threatened with war if Cyprus drilled for oil and gas. Then he and his government demanded the de-militarisation of the eastern Aegean islands. Skirmishes at sea and threatening statements by Erdogan and Akar as well other moves by our neighbors,made the government and Armed Forces to finally try to modernize and upgrade the Army.

That's why 18 Rafale F3Rs were ordered from France,the Americans offered us some 1200 M1117 Guardian vehicles and supposedly a delegation would go to NATO bases in Germany and USA to select the best ones (yes,used)and Turkey's F-35s.I really doubt we can get the F-35s right now though. The Air Force also ordered 10 Alenia Aermacchi M-346 and the Navy wants 4 new frigates for the future,2 ships as intermediate solution and the modernisation of 4 Meko 200HN frigates.

There are also some greek companies trying to produce MRAPs,UAVs and upgrades for the Leopard 2A4,but unlike Turkey,every great idea and attempt for indigenous systems and production was eaten by interests,bureaucracy and no help from the State. Just like the Kentavros IFV which was one of the best IFVs in the late'90s an early 2000s.

 

[retaxis]

how is greek relationship with armenia? maybe you can work with Armenia and Russia and Kurds to encircle erdogan

 

[SQ8]

Since I'm one of the very few Greek members here,I'd like to offer you some insight and information about our side of the story.

You've probably heard or read about our recent arms purchases. You probably wonder why is a country that has been in an economic crisis,buying all these expensive weapons?

The first reason is that during the crisis,the governments from around 2012 to 2019 and especially during the SYRIZA rule from 2015-2019,the Armed Forces had been neglected. Before the crisis,we had ordered 6 FREMM Frigates from France. Sarkozy was also offering us Rafales back then as well.

"On 22 January 2009 the Hellenic Navy announced an order for six FREMM to replace an equal number of Elli-class frigates.[54] After the Greek government-debt crisis this was cut down to between two and four ships equipped with SCALP Naval, with France alleged to have offered them to Greece at no cost for the first five years. Germany objected to this deal in October 2011[55] and no deal has been signed. In February 2013 though and during the formal visit of the President of France, François Hollande, in Athens, according to press reports an agreement which includes the long-term leasing of two FREMM frigates (Normandie and Provence according to initial reports) to the Hellenic Navy has been reached.[56] On 12 January 2018 the Greek daily newspaper Kathimerini reported that the Greek government was set to enter talks with France regarding the procurement of two FREMM frigates, with an option for an additional two. Contacts between Greece and France were to begin initially at a military level, starting in February 2018.[57][58] In April 2018, Greek deputy Minister for National Defence Fotis Kouvelis stated that an agreement between France and Greece was reached for a five-year lease of two FREMM frigates, which could had been handed over as early as August 2018.[59] After a few days, on 25 April 2018 the Greek minister of Defense Panos Kammenos denied any information regarding the purchase of two frigates from France.[60] Eventually, Greece abandoned all plans for the purchase of FREMMs in 2019 and steered all attention to the new FDI Belharra multi-purpose frigates, offered by Naval Group.[61]"

The result of that was for us to stay behind in the Navy,while Turkey was producing ships like crazy.
After the fall of the SYRIZA government in 2019,information started coming out about how much the Armed Forces had been neglected:

-Our Type 214 submarines lacked modern torpedos to have the edge. The new government finally ordered 36 new DM2A4 Seehecht or SeaHake Mod 4 torpedos,as well as the modernisation of a number of SUT Mod0 torpedos to SUT Mod4.

-A big number of the Mirage 2000s were not flying due to lack of spare parts. The previous governments had neglected this but the problem was solved fast and the new government signed FOS deals.

-The army had been left without modern IFVs and MRAPs. While Turkey had been producing thousands of MRAPs and armored vehicles,we had been left with about 2,000 M113s and from the original 501 BMP-1 Ost that we had bought from East German stocks in the early '90s,we donated 100 to Iraq and sold or donated 100 to Egypt. We've started converting the rest to ZU-23-2 carriers.

The SYRIZA (Coalition of Radical Left) government had a policy of appeasement and instead was focused more on Gay Pride parades and LGBTQ+ rights,as well as signing the deal for the Macedonia naming dispute.
Some quotes by SYRIZA MPs on TV:
"We will heavily reduce arms spending. Asked "What if something happens with Turkey,on the other side?" he replied "We'll risk it."
Another one said "It's not a big deal if you lose some islands. You can recapture them. Or not.

However,Panos Kammenos,who was leader of the ANEL party that ruled together with SYRIZA,had signed the deal for the upgrade of 84 F-16s to F-16V.

Now,when New Democracy got in power,Erdogan started a series of provocations. First he threatened with war if Cyprus drilled for oil and gas. Then he and his government demanded the de-militarisation of the eastern Aegean islands. Skirmishes at sea and threatening statements by Erdogan and Akar as well other moves by our neighbors,made the government and Armed Forces to finally try to modernize and upgrade the Army.

That's why 18 Rafale F3Rs were ordered from France,the Americans offered us some 1200 M1117 Guardian vehicles and supposedly a delegation would go to NATO bases in Germany and USA to select the best ones (yes,used)and Turkey's F-35s.I really doubt we can get the F-35s right now though. The Air Force also ordered 10 Alenia Aermacchi M-346 and the Navy wants 4 new frigates for the future,2 ships as intermediate solution and the modernisation of 4 Meko 200HN frigates.

There are also some greek companies trying to produce MRAPs,UAVs and upgrades for the Leopard 2A4,but unlike Turkey,every great idea and attempt for indigenous systems and production was eaten by interests,bureaucracy and no help from the State. Just like the Kentavros IFV which was one of the best IFVs in the late'90s an early 2000s.

It may also have a balancing effect of reducing Erdogan’s overreach abroad. While fraternal(and ancestry in my case) with Turkey does abound in Pakistan - the efforts of Erdogan to get involved in Afghanistan (and even influence Pakistani internal dynamics) has left a sour taste in some key seats.

 

[Foinikas]

It may also have a balancing effect of reducing Erdogan’s overreach abroad. While fraternal(and ancestry in my case) with Turkey does abound in Pakistan - the efforts of Erdogan to get involved in Afghanistan (and even influence Pakistani internal dynamics) has left a sour taste in some key seats.

The Americans always wanted to have balance in the area. And for decades there was a balance. We were slightly technologically superior and the Turks had the numbers. All that has now changed. But it's not just that Turkey has been making a lot of weapons while we've stayed behind. It's Erdogan's policies that make us buy all that stuff now,especially his whole "Mavi Vatan" plans.

And you are right,he is obsessed with getting involved in Afghanistan,which is your turf.