The real causes of Muslims scientific downfall

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

This was the major cause, the Arabs like today neglected the most important thing which was "defense":-

The Mongol Sack of Baghdad in 1258

The Mongol conquest of the Abbasid Caliphate culminated in the horrific sack of Baghdad that effectively ended the Islamic Golden Age.

www.wondriumdaily.com

And you can find out how or why Europe set up centers for higher learning.
Al Chemy...
Gun powder...

 

[epebble]

I need some material on this topic (for a debate competition.
Deviance from islam is the most commonly told factor for their downfall.

I read on a book long ago (probably by Dr. Ausaf Ali) that the lack of entrepreneurship culture in Muslim empires was a major cause of Muslims scientific downfall .

That's an interesting factor not usually discussed
I think some more similar factors would have been there that caused their scientific downfall
Think of them and write them right here
Thanks in advance

Read the works of Francis Bacon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bacon
He was the pioneer of the Scientific method that approached the study of natural phenomenon in an objective manner leading to the advancement of science in Europe. Also read about the conflicts between Catholic church and Galileo to see how empirical methods of science overcame the dogma of scriptures. i.e., Heliocentrism of science won over Geocentricism of bible.
Another topic to study is the conflict of Darwin's theory of evolution with religious thought (Creationism) and how the world reconciled with it.

 

[Ssan]

Read the works of Francis Bacon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bacon
He was the pioneer of the Scientific method that approached the study of natural phenomenon in an objective manner leading to the advancement of science in Europe.

He “borrowed” the scientific method from ibn Al Haytham.

Also read about the conflicts between Catholic church and Galileo to see how empirical methods of science overcame the dogma of scriptures. i.e., Heliocentrism of science won over Geocentricism of bible.

Since the earliest times, we have not been against empiricism.

Another topic to study is the conflict of Darwin's theory of evolution with religious thought (Creationism) and how the world reconciled with it.

The Ismailis promoted this idea of evolution well before Darwin. It was accepted by some prominent sufis well before Darwin too.

 

[PakFactor]

Very very rarely is there one event that is the cause of something major like the fall of a civilization. The Mongol sacking of Baghdad was the death blow to a civilization was already on life support.

That is very well put. In business, a company like Apple would innovate after the launch of a Product. It started with iPod, then iPhone, iPad, etc. Innovation leads a company to its next potential. We, on the other hand, never bother innovating or growing then and now. Just as blockbuster died not purchasing Netflix or starting it owns so has the Islamic world.

Now even if you are allowed by the Western world to grow, they would limit your growth so as not to become a threat.

 

[Rusty2]

That is very well put. In business, a company like Apple would innovate after the launch of a Product. It started with iPod, then iPhone, iPad, etc. Innovation leads a company to its next potential. We, on the other hand, never bother innovating or growing then and now. Just as blockbuster died not purchasing Netflix or starting it owns so has the Islamic world.

Now even if you are allowed by the Western world to grow, they would limit your growth so as not to become a threat.

100%
Progress is not inventing one thing and then coasting. You must ALWAYS be progressing.
The problem right now is that we still have not gotten on board with the age of the industrial revolution/information age. Our mentality is still per-industrial.
We can't control what other powers do, we can only control our actions and right now, more than anything, our actions need to point our society to industrialize.

Now, it's easy to say that but industrializing means giving people freedom. Freedom of thought, freedom of action and freedom of/from religion.
We are not willing to do that as a society and thus we will never truly industrialize.
So our destiny is be in ou4 current state until the end of time or we are wiped out by greater powers.

 

[_Nabil_]

That is very well put. In business, a company like Apple would innovate after the launch of a Product. It started with iPod, then iPhone, iPad, etc. Innovation leads a company to its next potential. We, on the other hand, never bother innovating or growing then and now. Just as blockbuster died not purchasing Netflix or starting it owns so has the Islamic world.

Now even if you are allowed by the Western world to grow, they would limit your growth so as not to become a threat.

Best example is Saddam's Irak, was the leading Arab Muslim country in every field, they just destroyed it with the complicity of other Arab Muslim regimes....

 

[Rusty2]

Best example is Saddam's Irak, was the leading Arab Muslim country in every field, they just destroyed it with the complicity of other Arab Muslim regimes....

I mean he did invade 2 of his neighbors. No one forced him to do that.

 

[313ghazi]

Crux is the lack of funding for R&D. All the Empires of the past who grew relied on funding R&D. Those who built palaces instead ended up dead.

Look at oil rich Arab countries today, all the investment is in real estate. Even our broke *** manufactures more than they do.

Recently they have started military R&D and look at the rate of growth. A step in the right direction.

The key is to fund innovation and research in an academic and commercial setting.

 

[Goritoes]

Mongols, Fanaticism, Corruption, Division among the Muslims etc.

 

[epebble]

He “borrowed” the scientific method from ibn Al Haytham.


Since the earliest times, we have not been against empiricism.

The Ismailis promoted this idea of evolution well before Darwin. It was accepted by some prominent sufis well before Darwin too.

Yes, there have been many great scientific thinkers/philosophers during the Islamic Golden Age (900 A.D. to 1300 A.D.).

Islamic Golden Age - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This happened before the Renaissance and Reformation movements gained ground in Europe. Why the Islamic scientific thought collapsed after 1300 A.D. is a good question. Also interesting is, the lack of transformation from scientific ideas to applications i.e., moving from science to technology. It may be a good fortune of European scientific development that as the science developed, Industrial Revolution also started, and after that they reinforced each other to create what we today call science and technology.

It is important not to dwell only on the negatives. There have been 3 science Nobel laureates from Muslim nations. One each from Pakistan (physics), Egypt (Chemistry) and Turkey (Chemistry), though they did all the Nobel grade scientific work in Western countries.

One food for thought: You see less wealthy countries like China and India invest in scientific research, for example in space exploration. But very wealthy countries like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Qatar etc., don't have any interest in developing their own scientific or technological skills. But they won't mind spending, say, a few hundred billion dollars to build some tall towers or football stadiums etc., So, there may be a cultural factor also at play here wherein pure scientific knowledge is not valued as it does not bring any immediate tangible benefits. European physicists were all giddy over discovering Higgs Boson a few years back but in the Arab world people may wonder what is its use?

 

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[The Accountant]

I need some material on this topic (for a debate competition.
Deviance from islam is the most commonly told factor for their downfall.

I read on a book long ago (probably by Dr. Ausaf Ali) that the lack of entrepreneurship culture in Muslim empires was a major cause of Muslims scientific downfall .

That's an interesting factor not usually discussed
I think some more similar factors would have been there that caused their scientific downfall
Think of them and write them right here
Thanks in advance

Moral corruption is the key reason which resulted in loss of merit and hence ultimate downfall

 

[epebble]

Moral corruption is the key reason which resulted in loss of merit and hence ultimate downfall

There is plenty of immorality everywhere. Here, Israel, India, China, Russia everywhere. Moral corruption is not the reason for a ratio of 100 to 1 in Nobel prizes in science between Jews and Muslims. By no measure of accounting, Muslims are 100 times more corrupt than others.

 

[The Accountant]

There is plenty of immorality everywhere. Here, Israel, India, China, Russia everywhere. Moral corruption is not the reason for a ratio of 100 to 1 in Nobel prizes in science between Jews and Muslims. By no measure of accounting, Muslims are 100 times more corrupt than others.

Where is moral corruption in israel? Whatever they are doing with palestine is exactly as per their belief system ... They never dosown they always own it and as per jews belief system all non jews are subjects of jews just like animals ...

Where is moral corruption in china ? They are doing best for their own nation ... Strict rules but are applicable equally on everyone including the most successful businessman of china the owner of alibaba ...

How come russia is morally corrupt ?


How india is morally corrupt when their official are working all around the globe to promote indian growth and development objectives ?

Yes we are 100 times more corrupt ... We have cast based monarchy in saudia and sect based monarchy in iran and both are using sects to settle the long score of dominance between arabs and persians ...

All our energies are wasted in fighting each other over useless supermacy ... Look at investments of arabs ,,, they are investing in long buildings, buying football teams, building useless cities of luxury but no research and development facilities ...

Look at Pakistan we all know what is going in Pakistan ... We are collpasing but we are being told toshakhana is our biggest issue ... Isnt it moral corruption ?

If u think lack of scientific research and development is the cause then sorry its the after effect not the cause ... Cause is moral corruption where priorities is to gain personal and individual power through any means .. even at the cost of nation

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The arrogance of the muslims and their ignorance got the better of them---.