The never ending saga of the Third Generation LCA Tejas

[Riaz Hussain]

The never ending saga of the Third Generation LCA Tejas
7th Jan 2012

Pop open the Champagne, its time to celebrate? When the world was moving over to 5th Generation, a certain large country was celebrating something else. A fighter designed by the country which even its Airforce is hesitant to induct in decent numbers. The fighter which was supposed to replace the good ol' Mig-21, but strangely still in development. Yup, we are talking about the infamous LCA Tejas.

When the Project first came into existence in 1983, the IAF(Indian Air Force) was full of optimism about LCA which vaguely resembled one of their most favorite fighter, the french origin Mirage-2000. But after almost 30 years, the reality is this fighter had to be forced down the IAF's throat by the Ministry of Defence. After numerous prototypes & cost-overruns, the Light Combat Aircraft(LCA) has now finally progressed to IOC(Initial Operational Clearance). But the IAF feels the specs of this fighter is not something to write home about. And they are not wrong.

LCA's G tolerance is only 6Gs. When compared its rivals, Pakistan's JF-17/FC-1's is 8Gs, and Mig-21's(which it is supposed to replace) is 8.5Gs.

Its empty weight is a staggering 6540kgs. This betrays the very name of this fighter, "Light Combat Aircraft". Also this is a fighter which is said to have composites extensively. Just leaves one wondering what's the point of composites if it got to weigh this heavy in the end. The JF-17(similar in size to the LCA), eventhough it has a metal body, weighs only 6586kgs. The Mig-21 weighs 5460kgs.

It has a Maximum angle of attack of only 22, compared to the Mig-21's Max AoA of 28 Degrees(recoverable).

Its radar is still under perpetual development. The Israelis were supposed to give their radar, but new news reports suggests they have pulled the plug. So LCA currently has no working radar.

Tejas' new IN20 engine has a thrust of 19100lbf or 8660kgf. It is also a superior engine to RD-93 on the JF-17 which has a thrust of only 18300lbf. But the Mig-21's Tumansky engine can throw out a jaw dropping 21829lbf during interception, and 15654lbf during dogfighting, but it is an old Turbojet model. Hence the MTBO(Mean Time Between Overhaul), SFC(Specific Fuel Consumption) and other parameters favor the LCA's engine. So India has atleast one feather in its cap. Or does it? When all the parameters are below average and this one alone stands out, it's pretty obvious the engine is imported. The IN20 engine which the LCA owes its life to came straight out of the General-Electric's factory in the US.

Its max speed is unknown. While JF-17's is Mach 1.6, and Mig-21's Mach 2.2.

Its price is a staggering 1.9 billion Rupees or $41-42 million at the current 2011 exchange rate(fly away cost, not the cost with development taken into account). When compared, JF-17's cost is somewhere between $20-25 million, and Mig-21's < $2 million.

Aeronautical Development Agency(ADA) has promised these poor specs will be improved to 8Gs, 24 Degrees, Mach 1.8, with an indigenous engine in 3-4 years. But it is highly unlikely they will be able to achieve that given their track record. When it took ADA almost 3 decades to get to these below-average specs, its only logical to assume they need a miracle to improve their specs in such a short amount of time.

The Indian Airforce Chief PV.Naik came out with the truth that Tejas isn't a 4th Generation plane but rather only a Third Generation fighter. Perhaps he should have compared the specs first before classifying it as a MiG-21 on steroids("MiG-21++"). But then again the Foreign engine and a forthcoming foreign Radar, is and will be state of the art. Mr.Naik must have kept these 2 components in mind when he said that.

And not just the IAF chief, a good friend of mine suggested after witnessing the highly uninspiring characteristics of LCA first hand in Bangalore, in the Aero India held back in 2003, that the LCA program should be scrapped and India should go for Mirage-2000 ASAP. He even predicted the perpetual development schedule of the project if India doesn't abandon this fighter. Looking back, its frightening how accurate his words were, made way back in 2003. With such extremely poor specs my heart goes out to the brave souls who'll be flying this junk. It really lives up to its critic's name - Least Capable Aircraft!

References:
Livefist: IAF Grudgingly Accepts Tejas IOC, Wants 83 Mk-IIs

Is India's LCA project a waste of Tax Payers money? Are the critics right in calling it Least Capable Aircraft ?

Best article ever written! Very objective and true! made my day!

 

[SQ8]

Who wrote it? 1..
and the fact that it is almost 8 months old..

2. It is more of a Jf-17 vs LCA article instead of an actual analysis of the LCA program.

 

[Riteon]

Ohhh NEW Thread on this .

 

[arp2041]

when did the LCA got demotion to 3rd generation......


@ Oscar, pls close this thread as it is another LCA bashing thread with no sense at all + OP has changed the title to his convenience.

 

[janon]

Here is an article on the JF-17 from the same blog (which has a grand total of 17 such low quality posts). Am posting it here since the OP finds it so objective and true, as he himself says. Lets see what his comments are after he reads this:

Is Pakistan's JF-17 a Thunder or Blunder ? Are the critics right in calling it Junk Fighter -17 ?

Pakistan has witnessed new defense acquisitions in this decade than any other, and in the center of it all is the new fighter which was designed by China with partial funding from Pakistan. It is formally known as JF-17 Thunder. When the fighter was in development, Pakistani online communities were jumping with excitement comparing it with its arch rival India&#8217;s modern combatants Su-30MKI, MiG-29B & Mirage-2000H. There were claims of it featuring western Radars and long range missiles, & Chinese ordering some due to its superior capabilities. But the reality is far from it.

China having spent significant amount of money into a fighter which it is never going to use, most probably forced Pakistan to accept its avionics to offset some its development costs. Chinese who are known for their self reliance first and quality next, are further downgrading JF-17s capabilities with their poorly copy-pirated avionics. Along with their dubious weapons, any chance of JF-17 maintaining BVR edge over its adversary&#8217;s front-line combatants, for the most part, is unlikely..

Even in close combat JF-17 lacks what it takes to win the fight. Its spine, & wings bearing resemblance(in wing twist & wing area) to a fighter which china knows inside out, the J-7, doesn&#8217;t have wing twist nor does it have enough area to provide a low wing loading. Its performance during low speeds and high alphas would be very dangerous for the pilot indeed. It has a Maximum G loading of only 8, as claimed by PAC. Its thrust to weight ratio is another negative point. When its arch rival, the Indian Air Force(IAF), was overtly critical of Tejas for having a low Thrust to Weight ratio, maybe they should have compared it with JF-17 which has even less, even with Emergency Thrust. Pakistan Aeronautical Complex(PAC) proudly displays the RD-93&#8217;s &#8220;Combat thrust with afterburner&#8221; as 19,200lbf, while the whole defense community knows RD-93&#8217;s thrust is 18,300lbf and the only real thrust increase was achieved with its new re-designed Sea Wasp RD-33MK engines- which has been explicitly stated by Klimov. However, Klimov&#8217;s RD-33 series 3(or series 2?), whose avatar is RD-93 with re-positioned Gear boxes, has a provision for emergency thrust which Klimov says can produce 8700kgf(~19200lbf) in their officially released document. They further state that as &#8220;Take-off emergency mode&#8221;. So the mentioned thrust can only be used during take-off where the Air is denser, and also only during emergency situations since it would seriously lower the engine&#8217;s lifespan. This is a far cry from PAC's &#8220;Combat thrust&#8221; claim. Why this is being stated is because, the engines(bought by the Chinese after pressurizing the Russians) are the only non-Chinese & non-Pakistani component, and even there they have lied about its capabilities. Hence the true, lower than published, specifications of Chinese and Pakistani components are open to any one&#8217;s guesses. In any case, the close combat capabilities of JF-17 is below average or average at best.

The next Achilles heal is JF-17&#8217;s speed. For a good interception, speed is an important criteria. However JF-17&#8217;s max speed is Mach 1.6 which is claimed by PAC. This indicates that JF-17 is draggier. When compared, their F-7s(Reverse engineered MiG-21s) have higher speed of mach 2+ with a lower thrust engine. The IAF fighters which it is going to face, all have speeds greater than the Thunder.

So why is Pakistan still inducting more and more of this fighter, which its critics increasingly call it Junk Fighter &#8211; 17 ? The answer may lie with Pakistan&#8217;s recent trauma & its psyche. Having sanctioned by the U.S, the star of their airforce, the F-16s were severally hit by lack of spares and most of the time grounded. The other 2 sources to procure modern Aircraft- Russia, have been sealed off due to the legacy of Soviet era friendship, current market in India & India&#8217;s pressure- and the other source, the European Union, for their extremely high costs. The third source, the Chinese, at that time were still flying their reverse engineered MiG-21s. In those circumstances, &#8220;Never again&#8221; was the motto of PAF and it instantly jumped into the project of further reversing the reverse engineered MiG-21, known as Super-7(a.k.a Super F-7) to obtain self reliance. The result of that project is the JF-17. So the decision was appropriate at that time, in those situations. However now with China having developed the J-10, and going by the recent reports of offering ToT(Transfer of Technology) to Pakistan, one wonders why are the Pakistanis still ordering 250 planes. Is the trauma of F-16 sanctions so high that they don&#8217;t even trust the Chinese? This can't be the case because they still need the Chinese to procure the RD-93 engines for them, even after the Chinese transfer all their associated JF-17 tech to PAC. So why...? The answer lies with their ego/psyche rather than the trauma. Unlike J-10, Pakistan shares copyright to JF-17 and that, for some weird reason, gives them something to celebrate about. This is strange for the reason, war machines are for fighting wars and achieving tactical & strategic objectives, not for gloating about who holds the copyrights. When JF-17 comes face to face with MKI or SMT, there won&#8217;t be much to celebrate about it , or the few millions if at all it earns though exports. In the end, it&#8217;s all about defending ones homeland from the enemy, and not copyrights.

JF-17 would have been the best fighter and a sensible decision in the absence of J-10, but now its reason for existence is as obsolete as the fighter itself. This writer would rather have an upgraded MiG-23MLD than a JF-17 anyday.




What do you say now, thread starter? Very objective, isn't it? Sorry to ruin your day (that you claimed was made by the article you posted). It is sad that some people's days are made by desperately scouring the intertubes all day to land on some obscure website that ditches their enemy's accomplishments, while conveniently ignoring everything else on it.

 

[shubhamkumar]

@janon you banged him in the back man

 

[kkacer]

poor LCA, Big Mouth Product

 

[sancho]

Who wrote it? 1..
and the fact that it is almost 8 months old..

2. It is more of a Jf-17 vs LCA article instead of an actual analysis of the LCA program.

3. Based on wrong specs, even for JF17

I think the purpose of the threat is clear and you should end this as soon as possible please!

 

[Roybot]

Who wrote it? 1..
and the fact that it is almost 8 months old..

.

Try 1 year and 8 months. It was first "published" in Januray 2011, right after the LCA got its IOC.

 

[OrionHunter]

Blah, blah, and more blah!

Next...

 

[sancho]

Post reported! Guys don't reply to him anymore, let the Mods do their work.

 

[Arav_Rana]

hmm whatever lca is , i don't trust this plane

reason : this is 2012 and still in testing mode. Forget lca mkII, that plane ll not come before 2016-2017. and we Indian also developing 5th generation plane , who is already delayed, don't think we ll see them before 2022-2025. wo bhi in testing phase...
and at that time world ll be talking about 6th-7th gen.

Seriously our drdo babu spend too much time in chai-biscuit.. sale chor hai...

In this case i like chiense, does not matter they do copy or reverse engineering, they have indigenous equipment in good numbers with good qualities. what else you want ?

 

[timetravel]

hmm whatever lca is , i don't trust this plane

reason : this is 2012 and still in testing mode. Forget lca mkII, that plane ll not come before 2016-2017. and we Indian also developing 5th generation plane , who is already delayed, don't think we ll see them before 2022-2025. wo bhi in testing phase...
and at that time world ll be talking about 6th-7th gen.

Seriously our drdo babu spend too much time in chai-biscuit.. sale chor hai...

In this case i like chiense, does not matter they do copy or reverse engineering, they have indigenous equipment in good numbers with good qualities. what else you want ?

good number ok, good quality not so.

 

[Don777]

It does not matters what gen it is, it has enough capabilty to get $hitt out of the junk fihgter any day any time