What's new

The Kargil Conflict

Indiarox

FULL MEMBER
Joined
Feb 19, 2010
Messages
818
Reaction score
0
The 1999 Kargil War: Not a Generals’ Victory

By Air Marshal Ashok Goel (Retd) Published : January 2009



New Delhi. The 1999 Kargil War caused the biggest .utter in the Indian subcontinent, bringing India and Pakistan close to a nuclear holocaust. Despite the fact that the last two wars between the two neighbours had been way back, in 1965 and 1971, it happened because the Indians were lax as usual and the Pakistanis in a mischief mode, also as usual.
Much has been written about the event, including by the Chief of Army Staff at that time, Gen V P Malik, as also by the then Home Minister L K Advani. There was an official inquiry by India’s renowned strategic affairs analyst, K Subrahmanyam, but he has pointed out to this writer that he did not go into operational details and accordingly, could not comment on certain weaknesses some top Indian commanders displayed. The mid-level and younger officers and men though fought well, and even though many of them perished, the victory actually belonged to them.
The Pakistani military leadership as well as its Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) have always been indulging in nasty manoeuvers against India. But that they dared to infiltrate troops into India and tried to capture a part of Kashmir yet again was possible because we were negligent, partly because we generally are so by temperament and partly because the government of the day, led by Mr A B Vajpayee, had ordered the forces to be “soft” on Pakistan because of the “positive” talks between him and his Pakistani counterpart, Nawaz Sharif towards maintaining peace and building friendship.
While opportunities for peace must be seized by politicians, there was no reason for the armed forces – the Army in particular – to be lax. In fact, the Pakistani move as it happened had been debated in the Indian Army for years and had been taken up as a strong possibility in periodic exercises. Yet, when it was happening, we were blind to it.
In the foreword to Brig Gurmeet Kanwal’s book, Indian Army Vision 2020, Gen Malik says: “The Fact is that even after 60 years of independence, knowledge and experience of defence and military issues is lacking in most of our political leaders and civilian bureaucrats.”
But the General has not shared the lapses and neglect of responsibilities of the Army leadership, particularly of the sector commanders, and to an extent, his own. Some of these are by now, well known, including the mindset of the 15 Corps Commander, Lt Gen Krishan Pal, who insisted that there were only a handful of infiltrators – 60 to 80 – and that none of them was a Pakistani soldier. He committed troops without allowing them adequate weapons and strength, and if facts given by Lt Gen Y M Bammi in a book are taken into account, he punished an officer, Brig Devinder Singh, who wanted better preparations insisting that there were a large number of Pakistani soldiers inside the Indian territory.
The officer had eight battalions under his charge, and by all accounts, he fought very well, leading the troops from the front. Gen Malik himself has been seen and heard praising this officer at various fora. Yet, Brig Devinder Singh’s career was cut short to save those who were wrong.
To recall, the biggest players of the Kargil War were:
The Government at the highest echelon of the Political Leadership;
The top rung of the military leadership – The Army Chief, GOC-in-C Northern Command, 15 Corps Cdr , and the 3 Div Cdr;
The intelligence agencies, primarily the Intelligence Bureau (IB) and Research and Analysis Wing (RAW);
The Indian Air Force (IAF) and its exercise of Air Power.
The dedicated and committed soldiers and the middle and junior level officers.
THE ROLE OF THE POLITICAL LEADERSHIP
The NDA government was at its pinnacle in May 1998, having successfully conducted the nuclear test that month and having put India in the list of Nuclear Weapon States (NWS). The aim now was to resolve the Kashmir issue by seeking wellmeaning diplomatic and economic relations with Pakistan.
Mrs Indira Gandhi had also attempted that, after the 1971 Bangladesh Liberation War, by trying to tell the then Pakistani leader Z A Bhutto that only peace between the two neighbours would ensure their long-term economic prosperity and growth. In fact, she went out of the way to ensure a comfortable stay for Bhutto, personally choosing even the tapestry of the room he was to stay in Simla during the 1972 summit between them, and by telling Indian officers that the Pakistani leader must be given the respect due to a visiting head of government or state, and not that of a country which had lost war. She agreed to Bhutto’s request to release nearly 96,000 Pakistani POWs, and Bhutto promised to work for peace with India.
Needless to say that he backed out.
Mrs Gandhi did what was right in those circumstances. But the lesson for the Indian leadership was to understand that Pakistan is never to be trusted. Islamabad built a network of nuclear capability and missiles by smuggling and deceit, lying even to Washington which gave it liberal aid as a friend and mentor.
Prime Minister Vajpayee and his deputy, Advani, tried to establish a political dialogue with Pakistan. Coupled with the nuclear tests, a success with Islamabad would give them respect in the history books forever.
Intelligence organizations were told to be easy, and the armed forces stopped looking for periodic information from them. There was the February 1999 Bus Yatra (journey) by Vajpayee to Lahore to meet with his counterpart, Nawaz Sharif. It was a goodwill mission, seemingly wellresponded by Sharif.
But the fact that the then Pakistani Chief of Army Staff, Gen Parvez Musharraf, did not pay due respects to the visiting Indian leader during the visit, should have been an indication of the Pakistani army’s intentions; that it had no intention to accommodate the rapprochement that the political leadership in Islamabad perhaps then wanted.
It may be noted that as a Brigadier on assignment with a think tank in London, Musharraf had written in a thesis that Pakistan must capture Kashmir to secure water from the Himalayan rivers for itself. As a Chief of Staff, he would certainly try to realize his thoughts.
It is a well known fact that the Srinagar-Leh axis runs closest to the Line of Control (LOC) in the Dras–Kargil Sector. Also, the terrain on the Indian side is hostile to defend, whereas the terrain on the Pakistan side is favorable to launch an offensive. Strategically, Pakistan has always intended to block, disrupt or permanently dislocate it.
My first posting after being commissioned into the IAF in 1963 was to Jammu in Squadron 43, flying Dakotas. The main task was to operate to Kargil and Thoise to provide logistic support to the troops deployed in forward areas. I was fortunate to be deputed as the Base Commander of Air Force clement at Kargil from Feb to May 1964, working along with 121 (Ind) Infantry Brigade.
It was an education.
Brig Chopra, an Armoured Corps officer who was the Brigade Commander, always used to say that the Dras-Kargil Sector was the most sensitive because of its close proximity to the LOC as well as the terrain factors.
Much later, during a course in 1980-81 at the Army’s prestigious College of Combat at MHOW, now renamed Army War College, this lesson was repeated by none other than the Commandant, Lt Gen K Sunderji.
He became the Chief of Army Staff later, and had a sand-model exercise conducted, visualizing exactly what the Pakistanis did to occupy Kargil. A counteroffensive plan was discussed at the 15 Corps Headquarters. I was privy to that along with Lt Gen B C Nanda, Army Commander Northern Command, Air Marshal M M Singh, AOC-in-C Western Command and some other officers.
That in 1998 and 1999, the top brass in the same sector was oblivious to the risk from the Pakistani Army, is absolutely un-understanable.
RAW’S AVIATION RESEARCH CENTRE (ARC)
Till mid-1997, a user could approach ARC only through the RAW HQ for its operational tasks. This used to delay the process by a week. The legendary Billy Bedi, who headed ARC for several years, initiated userfriendly steps, and a required mission could be launched within hours. Analytical reports were delivered ASAP, within hours if required.
Top 3-star officers from the services were invited and informed of the ARC’s capabilities in airborne electronic intelligence, and the then Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal A Y Tipnis, commended the ARC.
THE KARGIL SURPRISE
In May 1999, once reports of Pakistani infiltration had come in, Army’s Directorate General of Military Intelligence (DGMI) sought Air Reconnaissance Mission in the Dras-Kargil sector.
I personally flew missions beginning May 13 and soon, on May 18, we had pictures of six Pakistani Army MI-17 helicopters parked in the Mushok Valley area on the Indian side. These photographs were shown to the then Defence Minister George Fernandes, who was aghast and observed that this could have happened only after months of planning and preparation.
Gen Malik also praised ARC for the inputs but strangely, till some three weeks after this input, Lt Gen Krishan Pal still seemed to believe that there were only a few infiltrators on the Indian side. He himself said in a TV statement that he revised his opinion only after India lost many lives in the Battle of Tololing (June 13).
Did the Army HQ fail to convey him the confirmation of the Pakistani helicopters, and presence, inside India? Or he just insisted on ignoring reality?
Perhaps, the Army should come out with the truth after an honest introspection.
For record, Gen Malik had told ARC that he had no hesitation in admitting that its inputs enabled the Army to correlate its operational plans and that otherwise the causality figures could have been much higher.
The gap between this statement and Lt Gen Krishanpal’s observation is glaring, and led to a tragic loss of lives.
THE INDIAN AIR FORCE
IAF does not have combat helicopters for high altitude offensive operations, and on May 25, it was decided to commit aircraft to neutralize the ***************** positions on the Indian side.
Initially, IAF lost two aircraft and one Mi 17 helicopter.
An IAF spokesman pointed out that the air operations in Kargil had taken place in an environment that was totally new in the history of world military aviation. The IAF had to unlearn what had been taught before, as it was operating with a new set of paradigms such as the ballistic trajectory of weapons in high altitude operations.
A well-respected Air Marshal Vinod Patney, Air Officer Commanding in-Chief (AOC-in-C) Western Air Command, conducted the air operations after a short course to his officers in precision bombing.
THE SUBRAHMANYAM COMMITTEE
The Subrahmanyam Committee did not attribute any intelligence failures to RAW or ARC, but highlighted equipment inadequacies like the lack of high resolution, all-weather and sub-meter imaging capability.
Lack of UAVs and better coordination between the security agencies was also mentioned but it acknowledged that the IB Director did convey certain inputs on activities in areas under the Gilgit-based FCNA (Force Commander orthern Areas) of Pakistan to the Prime Minister, the Home Minister, the Cabinet Secretary, the Home Secretary and the Director-General Military Operations (DGMO).
There is apparently a general lack of awareness of the critical importance of, and the need for, assessed intelligence, at all levels. Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC) reports do not receive the attention they deserve at the political and higher bureaucratic levels. One officer in a listening post mentions that a senior bureaucrat asked him about some entertainment programmes only in a span of one year.
It is clear that a Kargil-type situation could have been avoided either by plugging gaps as in Siachin, or by a credible declaratory policy of swiftly punishing wanton and willful violation of the sanctity of the LOC, as the Committee observed.
THE NUCLEAR TANGLE
Kargil was a stupid adventure for Pakistan.
Threats from Islamabad about using nuclear weapons were considered but dismissed as Pakistan would not have been more stupid to invite destructive retaliation.
The Kargil War has also helped strengthen India’s doctrine that while India would not first use nuclear weapons, it would retaliate by inflicting massive destruction.
CONCLUSION
There is much evidence available to suggest that the intelligence agencies, RAW and IB, had in fact provided their political masters and military commanders with ample warning about Pakistani intentions and activities.
In any case, lack of strategic intelligence could have been made up by the observation on the ground through scouts and patrolling. One did not have to get basic inputs about the Pakistani infiltration from shepherds, which as a matter fact, happened. After all, the Pakistani infiltration was spread over a large front.
India deliberately limited its response to the eviction of Pakistani soldiers.
But many of our officers and men died needlessly as we were neither prepared for the war nor ready to absorb the inputs towards efficient and better coordination between the security forces.
The victory indeed belonged to those officers and men who fought, died or survived, but won.:cheers:
 
.
can anyone help me out I am trying to find the name of a soldier in the Kargil war, I belive a Sikh in the Sikh regt who kille 4 SSG members in taking a point. I believe they engaged in hand to hand fighting.

There is not much info on this man for some reason.

I am no trying to insult anyone only uncover FACTUAL HISTORY, if this happend then there should be no reason to take offence from the truth (history) and so no reason to complain.

Thanks to anyone for their help.
 
.
can anyone help me out I am trying to find the name of a soldier in the Kargil war, I belive a Sikh in the Sikh regt who kille 4 SSG members in taking a point. I believe they engaged in hand to hand fighting.

There is not much info on this man for some reason.

I am no trying to insult anyone only uncover FACTUAL HISTORY, if this happend then there should be no reason to take offence from the truth (history) and so no reason to complain.

Thanks to anyone for their help.

It was not in Kargil, its in Operation Rajiv, in 1987 - in Siachen Glacier area.

The guy is Bana Singh a Param Vir Chakra Awardee.

Bana Singh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
.
SSG was present in kargil but covertly in mujh gear and with AK's in an operation like kargil no SF is stupid enough to be in an war like overt mode of operation it gives away your identities which is the exact opposite for a kargil like operation,SSG has been in covert mode in both kargil and afghanistan during the soviet days.

and i havent heard anyone tell about the sikh story with SSG,they alongwith the normal regts were busy with maskoh,tiger valley,pimple complex,dras and tololing,the indian SF that is 9 para sf were engaging on the hard peaks of zulu 1.MARCOS are said to be involved but what they did remains classified to this day.
 
.
SSG was present in kargil but covertly in mujh gear and with AK's in an operation like kargil no SF is stupid enough to be in an war like overt mode of operation it gives away your identities which is the exact opposite for a kargil like operation,SSG has been in covert mode in both kargil and afghanistan during the soviet days.

and i havent heard anyone tell about the sikh story with SSG,they alongwith the normal regts were busy with maskoh,tiger valley,pimple complex,dras and tololing,the indian SF that is 9 para sf were engaging on the hard peaks of zulu 1.MARCOS are said to be involved but what they did remains classified to this day.

dude not in kargil but in siachen this incident took place why bring kargil in this
 
.
dude not in kargil but in siachen this incident took place why bring kargil in this

9 PARA took part in Kargil and this decision was lateron criticised as they were used like an Infantry and not as a "special force" which they are.

Secondly SSG were also involved and there is one incident in which the SSG conducted an operation to bring back the body of a Pakistani soldier(Lalak Jan i think) who had successfuly managed to destroy Indian Ammo dump.
 
. .
Major sacked, gets sentence for faking Siachen encounters

The Gorkha Rifles officer who staged and filmed encounters hoping to get bravery awards said he would appeal to the Supreme Court.

NEW DELHI, JODHPUR, DHNS/PTI/UNI:

Major Surinder Singh, a Gorkha Rifles officer, was on Tuesday dismissed from service after an army court martial found him guilty of faking encounters with the enemy on Siachen Glacier and sentenced him to three years’ rigorous imprisonment.

The Major had filmed the fake encounters to buttress his claims to bravery awards and obtain favourable mentions by higher formation commanders.

“Major Surinder Singh has been found guilty of all charges by the General Court Marshal (GCM) and is cashiered from the Army and sentenced to undergo rigorous imprisonment for three years”, Presiding Officer of the seven-member jury Brig A D S Grewal said.

The Army Court, started on September 21 after the 80-day Summary of Evidence (SoE) proceedings, included five colonels and the court martial process began after a court of inquiry recommended disciplinary action against the Major.

The sentence will now be confirmed by the Army Chief as per rules.

On being pronounced guilty, Maj Singh pleaded for leniency, saying he was the lone earning member of his family. His wife and three children aged between 5-8 years had no other source of income, he said.

Major sacked, gets sentence for faking Siachen encounters - Deccan Herald
 
.
Major sacked, gets sentence for faking Siachen encounters

The Gorkha Rifles officer who staged and filmed encounters hoping to get bravery awards said he would appeal to the Supreme Court.

NEW DELHI, JODHPUR, DHNS/PTI/UNI:

Major Surinder Singh, a Gorkha Rifles officer, was on Tuesday dismissed from service after an army court martial found him guilty of faking encounters with the enemy on Siachen Glacier and sentenced him to three years’ rigorous imprisonment.

The Major had filmed the fake encounters to buttress his claims to bravery awards and obtain favourable mentions by higher formation commanders.

“Major Surinder Singh has been found guilty of all charges by the General Court Marshal (GCM) and is cashiered from the Army and sentenced to undergo rigorous imprisonment for three years”, Presiding Officer of the seven-member jury Brig A D S Grewal said.

The Army Court, started on September 21 after the 80-day Summary of Evidence (SoE) proceedings, included five colonels and the court martial process began after a court of inquiry recommended disciplinary action against the Major.

The sentence will now be confirmed by the Army Chief as per rules.

On being pronounced guilty, Maj Singh pleaded for leniency, saying he was the lone earning member of his family. His wife and three children aged between 5-8 years had no other source of income, he said.

Major sacked, gets sentence for faking Siachen encounters - Deccan Herald

Ur point being???

what has this article to do with Kargil War?
 
. . .
Peace is good..

But does the other side want it?
Taali ek haath se nahi bajti..

And we should never forget the lessons of Kargil..Never let ur guard down against Pakistan..They will talk about peace and they will also be planning to attack us when we least expect..
 
.
haha kargli war v hit bharath in d head form kargil haha and u cry hahaha go by more helikcoperts 360 helikopers and pul dem in kargil becoz v cum der in 2011 ears and agan cuntrol antaire bharath hahahaha were is da cowwwwwww hahah


in english buddy!!!
 
. .
haha this is from wikipedia--

Bana Singh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



thats how reliable wiki is--



This is the Real Article
Bana Singh
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Captain Bana Singh, was born on 6 January 1949 at Kadyal in Jammu and Kashmir. He enrolled in the Indian Army on 6 January 1969 into the 8th Jammu & Kashmir Light Infantry (JAK LI) Regiment. He was awarded the Param Vir Chakra, the highest wartime gallantry medal in India.
During the Siachen Conflict of June 1987, the 8th Jammu & Kashmir Light Infantry (JAKLI), was deployed to the Siachen Glacier area. It was then found that a large number of Pakistani infiltrators had intruded in the Siachen Glacier. The ejection of these infiltrators was considered difficult but necessary and a special task force was constituted for the purpose. Bana Singh was a Naib Subedar then, posted on the Glacier. Naib Subedar Singh volunteered to join this force.
The Pakistani intrusion had taken place at a height of 6450 metres, one of the highest peaks in the Siachen Glacier area. From this feature the Pakistanis could snipe at Indian army positions since the height gave a clear view of the entire saltoro range and siachen glacier. The Pakistanis called this post 'Quaid post' after their founder Quaid-e-azam Md Ali Jinnah. The enemy post was virtually an impregnable glacier fortress with ice walls, 457 metres high, on either side. Operation Rajiv, named after 2nd Lt Rajiv Pande VrC, was launched to evict the Pakistanis from that post. Naib Subedar Bana Singh led his men through an extremely difficult and hazardous route, climbing a height of 1500 feet in near darkness in a snowstorm. He inspired them by his indomitable courage and leadership. He and his men crawled and closed in on the adversary. Lobbing hand-grenades, charging with a bayonet and moving from trench to trench, he cleared the post of all intruders. All together 6 Pakistani Special Service Group commandos were killed, 3 or 4 of them were bayoneted in hand to hand battle at a height of 21,000 ft.
Naib Subedar Bana Singh was awarded the Param Vir Chakra, the highest wartime gallantry medal in India, for conspicuous bravery and leadership under most adverse conditions. The peak which he captured was renamed Bana Top in his honour. At the time of the Kargil War, he was the only PVC awardee who was still serving in the Army.
 
.

Latest posts

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom