the greenhouse effect theory is wrong, don't believe liberal nonsense

[ultron]

I think, a lot of people are confused of light and heat. When most people hear the word infrared, they immediately think of heat. Infrared is electromagnetic radiation. In layman's terms, electromagnetic radiation is light. Light is not heat. Light and heat are completely different kinds of energy.

If light is absorbed by a material, light is converted into heat. When a cooler thing emits infrared radiation at a hotter thing, does the temperature of the hotter thing increase? No. Because a hotter thing reflects incoming infrared radiation that have weaker longer wavelengths than what itself already emits, just like a mirror reflects incoming light back.

For example, if two hot light bulbs of equal temperature are placed next to each other, both light bulbs emit infrared radiation at each other, but neither light bulb will change its temperature.

This is why, no matter how much infrared radiation greenhouse gases in the cooler air emit at the warmer surface, the temperature of the surface does not increase. This is why, the greenhouse effect theory is not correct.

Indeed, if a cooler thing can heat, or in a layman's terms, increase the temperature of a warmer thing, then free energy would have been created out of nothing and a Nobel prize would be in order.

This is junk science told by NASA at the order of the draconian Obama administration.

 

[C130]

why doesn't other governments not under the yoke of U.S/NASA come forward and tell the trurth.



surely Russia or China would disprove the U.S and West on this topic

 

[flameboard]

Makes no sense. What's the warmer thing that reflects heat the ground? The air? Surely they both cool down at night and they're affected by the sun's radiation.

How does this planet stay warm but the moon which is pretty close by have extreme variation in temperature? You would say the the atmosphere which is correct because the atmosphere creates a greenhouse effect.

Perhaps if the Earth becomes as hot as the sun it will deflect all of the infra red radiation according to your reasoning. Only then maybe we can stop worrying about the planet getting any hotter

 

[ultron]

why doesn't other governments not under the yoke of U.S/NASA come forward and tell the trurth.



surely Russia or China would disprove the U.S and West on this topic

NASA is a government organization. Obama can fire any of its employees by executive order. So they are too scared to speak out.

Makes no sense. What's the warmer thing that reflects heat the ground? The air? Surely they both cool down at night and they're affected by the sun's radiation.

How does this planet stay warm but the moon which is pretty close by have extreme variation in temperature? You would say the the atmosphere which is correct because the atmosphere creates a greenhouse effect.

Perhaps if the Earth becomes as hot as the sun it will deflect all of the infra red radiation according to your reasoning. Only then maybe we can stop worrying about the planet getting any hotter

Each Moon day is like as long as an Earth month, so the Moon is hot at day and cold at night, compared to Earth which does not heat up that much at day nor cool off that much at night.

Keep in mind that the warmer ground heats the cooler air, not the other way around.

 

[ultron]

All objects emit radiation at their own temperatures.

The Sun is very hot, so its radiation has very short wavelength. Earth is much cooler, so its radiation has much longer wavelength. CO2 in the air is cooler than Earth's surface, so its radiation has longer wavelength than Earth's surface.

Any object will absorb incoming radiation that has shorter wavelength than what itself emits. Any object will not absorb, will reflect, incoming radiation that has longer wavelength than what itself emits.

This is why, hotter things transfer heat to cooler things, cooler things do not transfer heat to hotter things.

So, Earth's heat transfer is bottom up, not top down.

So, the greenhouse effect is wrong.

QED

 

[flameboard]

NASA is a government organization. Obama can fire any of its employees by executive order. So they are too scared to speak out.




Each Moon day is like as long as an Earth month, so the Moon is hot at day and cold at night, compared to Earth which does not heat up that much at day nor cool off that much at night.

Keep in mind that the warmer ground heats the cooler air, not the other way around.

The temperatures do fluctuate extremely on the moon.
Temperature of the Moon - Universe Today

You're right about the ground heating up the air, but even then how much of the heat stays around Earth depends on the the greenhouse effect.

That's why greenhouse can contribute to how much hotter it gets. But the Earth isn't just heating up, a better description for what's going on as a result is climate change.

Particles of ash in the air from all of our pollution have also been blamed for absorbing heat as well in the atmosphere but that's a whole other thing.

 

[ultron]

You're right about the ground heating up the air, but even then how much of the heat stays around Earth depends on the the greenhouse effect.

There's nothing special about CO2. All air molecules, whether N2, O2, CO2, H2O, what have you, absorb radiation and emit radiation at their own temperatures. N2 and O2 absorb shortwave radiation from the Sun during the day and release IR radiation at night. There's nothing that CO2 does that other air molecules cannot do.

All materials absorb and release heat. There's nothing magical about CO2. As for retention of heat, the entire atmosphere does that by releasing IR at night. In fact, O2 has better heat absorbing properties compared to CO2.

 

[ultron]

 

[rubyjackass]

For example, if two hot light bulbs of equal temperature are placed next to each other, both light bulbs emit infrared radiation at each other, but neither light bulb will change its temperature.

Puff...

 

[flameboard]

There's nothing special about CO2. All air molecules, whether N2, O2, CO2, H2O, what have you, absorb radiation and emit radiation at their own temperatures. N2 and O2 absorb shortwave radiation from the Sun during the day and release IR radiation at night. There's nothing that CO2 does that other air molecules cannot do.

All materials absorb and release heat. There's nothing magical about CO2. As for retention of heat, the entire atmosphere does that by releasing IR at night. In fact, O2 has better heat absorbing properties compared to CO2.

Ultron you say there's nothing special about CO2, and imply that all air molecules have the same properties, and absorb and release heat without difference. But then you refute these claims by saying O2 has better heat absorbing properties than CO2, make up your mind and take a chemistry class. Also our atmosphere has more nitrogen than oxygen, so a better comparison would be nitrogen

 

[rubyjackass]

First comment on the video:

Erwin Gaubitzer 1 month ago
I am ashamed of him being a chemist, as I am!!

 

[ultron]

Ultron you say there's nothing special about CO2, and imply that all air molecules have the same properties, and absorb and release heat without difference. But then you refute these claims by saying O2 has better heat absorbing properties than CO2, make up your mind and take a chemistry class. Also our atmosphere has more nitrogen than oxygen, so a better comparison would be nitrogen

All gases in the air are greenhouse gases, because they absorb heat from the ground and radiate heat in all directions, some of that radiation go down. CO2 and H2O may be better greenhouse gases than O2 and N2 in that they can be heated not only by conduction but also by radiation. That's the only difference.

Let's take oxygen as an example. Suppose the Earth has no atmosphere, then the ground radiates IR to space. Nothing can slow this radiation. Suppose the Earth's atmosphere is entirely oxygen. Oxygen molecules absorb heat from the ground and from each other by conduction. Heated oxygen molecules emit IR radiation in all directions. About half of the emitted IR radiation go down to the ground and heat the ground. With an atmosphere that's entirely oxygen, the ground retains heat much better compared to the case if Earth has no atmosphere.

It is true that only greenhouse gases can be heated by radiation. It is not true that oxygen and nitrogen gas molecules do not emit IR radiation. Everything that has heat emit IR radiation. Everything. It is not true that oxygen and nitrogen gas molecules cannot be heated. Everything can be heated. Everything.

First comment on the video:

Erwin Gaubitzer 1 month ago
I am ashamed of him being a chemist, as I am!!

Earth's surface does not have an emissivity of 1.0. Earth's surface has an emissivity of about 0.6.

As derived by the distinguished Dr. Pierre Latour, Earth's surface temperature is nearly 15 C if there is no atmosphere. The -18 C number that James Hansen derived with e = 1.0 is wrong.

Starts at the 39:00 mark.

 

[Mythal]

This is why, no matter how much infrared radiation greenhouse gases in the cooler air emit at the warmer surface, the temperature of the surface does not increase. This is why, the greenhouse effect theory is not correct.

After reading your first post I thought this was supposed to be a joke. But I think you actually believe this. Please spent a few seconds to educate yourself about what a greenhouse effect is.
The heating is NOT caused by the infrared radiation from the greenhouse gases. Greenhouse gases forms a layers over the earth which is unable to stop the lower wavelength UV rays from the SUN, but traps the same light, after being reflected from Earth's surface and becoming larger wavelength IR rays, to escape from Earth's atmosphere.
This is not a theory, we see this everywhere. Heard about greenhouses? the glasses that make the surface of greenhouses do not radiate Infrared radiations that might heat the room, they just stop part of the light from escaping and thus heating the room eventually.
Also do you know the hottest planet in solar system is not the one closest to the Sun, it is Venus, because of greenhouse gases.

 

[ultron]

After reading your first post I thought this was supposed to be a joke. But I think you actually believe this. Please spent a few seconds to educate yourself about what a greenhouse effect is.
The heating is NOT caused by the infrared radiation from the greenhouse gases. Greenhouse gases forms a layers over the earth which is unable to stop the lower wavelength UV rays from the SUN, but traps the same light, after being reflected from Earth's surface and becoming larger wavelength IR rays, to escape from Earth's atmosphere.
This is not a theory, we see this everywhere. Heard about greenhouses? the glasses that make the surface of greenhouses do not radiate Infrared radiations that might heat the room, they just stop part of the light from escaping and thus heating the room eventually.
Also do you know the hottest planet in solar system is not the one closest to the Sun, it is Venus, because of greenhouse gases.

Venus has 90 times as much atmosphere as Earth. Bad comparison. You are forgetting Mars which has an atmosphere that is 96% CO2 compared to a puny 0.04% as with Earth's atmosphere. Furthermore, a lot of Venus' heat is generated by chemical reactions in its violent atmosphere.


Earth's surface does not have an emissivity of 1.0. Earth's surface has an emissivity of about 0.6.

As derived by the distinguished Dr. Pierre Latour, Earth's surface temperature is nearly 15 C if there is no atmosphere. The -18 C number that James Hansen derived with e = 1.0 is wrong.

Starts at the 39:00 mark.

As derived from the equation, Earth's average surface temperature WITHOUT atmosphere is 15 C by setting emissivity about 0.6 which is the correct value. Earth's surface is a grey body, not a perfect black body. Earth's surface does not absorb all incoming light, and does not emit light only in the IR spectrum. Of course, if that were the case, Earth's surface would be perfectly black everywhere.

A perfect black body is a theoretical concept. No one has seen one. A black hole comes very very close to being one. A perfect black body is perfectly black, absorbs all light, emits only in the IR spectrum. A perfect black body has emissivity being 1. Put that number in the equation, one obtains an average surface temperature of -18 C as derived by Dr. Pierre Latour in the last slide of his presentation. The assumption is wrong, so the number used by alarmists is wrong.

 

[ultron]

I repeated Dr. Pierre Latour's calculation of the Earth's average surface temperature without atmosphere. Setting e = 0.612, I get 288 K which rounds to 15 C. Nothing wrong with it. Atmosphere including clouds does not increase Earth's average surface temperature by any noticeable amount.

Here's my calculation, which repeats of Dr. Latour's calculation on his slide at 42:45 of his presentation. Only he missed a pair of brackets around 5.67 * 0.612.

https://www.google.ca/?gws_rd=ssl#q=100 * (239 / (5.67 * 0.612)) ^ 0.25

Here's the liberal bad science. Atmospheres and Planetary Temperatures - American Chemical Society

Their calculations assumed emissivity 1, assuming all those planets are perfect black bodies, which is wrong.

Here's my calculation with emissivity set at 1. The result I get is 255 K which rounds to -18 C.

https://www.google.ca/?gws_rd=ssl#q=100 * (239 / (5.67 * 1)) ^ 0.25

In fact, every observable thing in the universe, including Earth, has emissivity less than 1. For any real life thing, you never input 1 for the value of the parameter e. NEVER do that. NEVER EVER do that. Nothing in the universe is a perfect black body. That is a theoretical concept ONLY.