The Greatest Deception

[War Thunder]

It's quite fun at the start, then it starts getting tedious, imagine trying to convince someone 1+1=2 and they refuse to believe it.

 

[Krptonite]

Bhai bilkul kiya hai aur bahar zameen nazar aati hai bilkul flat.
Kabhi horizon ka naam suna hai? Kabhi ghar se bahar nikal ke door tak horizon ko dekhney ki koshish ki hai? Kya dikhta hai? Jitney door dekho woh door ki cheez oopar uth ke aap ke saamney aati hai aur gum nhi hojati.
Kabhi doorbeen utha ke ya telescope se try karlo?

The point is, open the video and check the argument, its discussing the same arguments you guys are making.
Being hardwired to education is not good for your health.

It's fun to hold a critical point of view. Only deep and free thinkers can.
I do not believe in a specific shape of the earth yet, I am open to both possibilities because I can see the flaws in both sides of the argument for now.




Bro watch it, its worth knowing the argument and concepts, just for the sake of learning and knowing regardless of what we believe in.
I can summarize but it won't do justice to the video itself.

To answer your questions.

Why do you believe the Americans have never returned to the moon? Why do you think they destroyed all data and tapes from the moon (public domain and statements from NASA officials).

Maybe all governments have agreed to keep the conspiracy as it is to make it easy for them to rule the masses?

What if the Earth was flat and center of the Universe? What if its not a planet but an unlimited realm of worlds? And maybe the whole point to mislead people was to keep them away from understanding the spiritual reality of the universe and knowing their significance?




I do not believe earth is flat, just like i do not believe its round.
Both theories have valid arguments and flaws and I do not trust NASA or the governments in general to not lie to the public.

This is just information which people should know and have as a part of their thought process.
It;s better to question something and reach a conclusion instead of never questioning something taught in books.

It's ok if you don't trust NASA, it's selective bias if you ignore the plethora of evidence available well before we sent sattelites for visual confirmation.

Researchers arrived at earth is spherical( not specifically but in general) in shape and countless experiments differing in complexity, methodology, geography, and application have all provided the same conclusion time after time.

 

[War Thunder]

It's quite fun at the start, then it starts getting tedious, imagine trying to convince someone 1+1=2 and they refuse to believe it.

The same statement was used to laugh at the Wright brothers before they discovered flight...
You can count two fingers on your hand. But you cannot see the earth. Instead you are supposed to believe science with a blind faith. Funny thing is most people nowadays Question existence of God because they don't see Him, yet the are fine having blind faith over something shown on tv and taught in school without questioning it.

 

[Krptonite]

The same statement was used to laugh at the Wright brothers before they discovered flight...
You can count two fingers on your hand. But you cannot see the earth. Instead you are supposed to believe science with a blind faith. Funny thing is most people nowadays Question existence of God because they don't see Him, yet the are fine having blind faith over something shown on tv and taught in school without questioning it.

I like how you think, and I agree with your sentiment about not believing blindly, but therein lies the strength of science, it's not faith like religion, it's methodological wherein every assumption, conclusion, procedure, inference, extrapolation based on the data available is questioned, analysed and checked for authenticity. That's why many people believe it, not because some significant authority says so, simply because if something's the truth then it doesn't matter what experiments you do or what methodology you utilise, they all will lead to the truth.

Wright brothers didn't discover flight, they looked at those who could already fly (avian species) and asked the question why and then more importantly how can we repeat this, that's what physics is, looking at the lord's creation and laws of existence and trying to understand them and then hopefully master them.

For a long time humans associated natural phenomena with divine attributes, but only after did we understand a fraction of how this universe works were we able to progress this much, future progress is made on the foundation of old, imagine studying mathematics till post degree level and then trying to explain why 10x10=100 and not 101.

Here are some you can personally try and arrive at an answer :https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pb...ce/7-diy-experiments-b-o-b-the-earth-is-round

 

[VCheng]

The same statement was used to laugh at the Wright brothers before they discovered flight...

The Wright brothers did NOT discover flight. They invented the first practical controllable powered airplane. Flight was known for a long time before that.

Warner brothers didn't discover flight,

Correct. Warner brother made cartoons.

 

[Krptonite]

Correct. Warner brother made cartoons.

Thanks for pointing that one out

 

[Omar Al-Deek]

It's fun to hold a critical point of view. Only deep and free thinkers can.
I do not believe in a specific shape of the earth yet, I am open to both possibilities because I can see the flaws in both sides of the argument for now.

I like to listen to what people have to say. I'm not the type to yell at people or get aggressive because they disagree. If anything, maybe I become sad that they are misguided and maybe pray for God to guide them.

However, this is a fun and interesting issue and it's also one where I don't think we're going to go to Jannah or Jahannam based on this.

Myself, I am a proud round-earther. I am also a conspiracy theorist. I do not believe that the NASA people in the 60's went to the moon. I believe the moon landing is fake.

Also, I think it is crazy to believe that the earth revolves around the sun. I believe that the sun revolves around the earth and I believe this is the Quranically correct position.

So I don't believe everything the media says or that is taught in schools. I don't trust NASA either.

However, I love and I trust our Muslim scholars.

Furthermore, if we want to know the shape if the earth I believe we should not go to NASA- I believe we should go to Quran and Sunnah.

"Ibn Hazm (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

The proofs of the Qur’an and Sunnah indicate that it is round. End quote."

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/211...ou-the-earth-wide-spread-an-expanse-nooh-7119

If Quran and Sunnah say it's round, it is round and I can sleep with the assurance that it is round.

"More than one of the scholars have narrated that there is consensus that the Earth is round. For example:

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) narrated that from Abu’l-Husayn ibn al-Munaadi (may Allah have mercy on him), when he said:

Imam Abu’l-Husayn Ahmad ibn Ja‘far ibn al-Munaadi narrated from the prominent scholars who are well known for knowledge of reports and major works in religious sciences, from the second level of Ahmad’s companions, that there was no difference of opinion among the scholars that the sky is like a ball.

He said: Similarly they were unanimously agreed that the Earth, with all that is contains of land and sea is like a ball. He said: That is indicated by the fact that the sun, moon and stars do not rise and set over those who are in different parts of the earth at the same time; rather that occurs in the east before it occurs in the west.

End quote from Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa (25/195)"

I love and I trust Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah and I am confident that he was not an agent of NASA.

Furthermore, I can understand how a scholar today might feel pressure to say it's round- if a scholar says "it's flat," the anti-Muslim types will laugh at them and be disrespectful, insulting the poor man and saying they're "unscientific". This era is one where people basically worship science.

I believe Ibn Kathir as well believed in round earth. Why would Ibn Kathir and Ibn Taymiyyah (God forbid) not tell the truth? Since they lived in the Middle Ages, I don't think it would have been seen as being as big a deal if they were to say the earth is flat today. I don't think people worshipped "science" in the way they do now.

Also, Shaykh Uthaymeen believed in a round earth: "Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

The earth is round, based on the evidence of the Qur’an, reality, and scientific views."

(quote is from the same fatwa)

I know Shaykh Uthaymeen lived in the modern day but I have a book with a translation of his fatwa that says the sun revolves around the earth. I love Shaykh Uthaymeen and I think he was a great scholar. Furthermore, if he was willing to say the sun revolves around the earth, why would he lie (God forbid) about the shape of the earth?

So I believe that the earth is round, I am a proud round-earther and I believe in such a way not because the lying NASA tells me so (I say they lie because I think they lied about the alleged moon landing) but because the scholars say so and I consider them the leaders of the Ummah. I can sleep easy at night, believing in what great scholars say and not believing in what fake "celebrity sheikhs" on YouTube tell me or what NASA tells me.

I believe in many "conspiracy theories". I believe the hippie movement was a CIA creation. I think Jews were behind 9/11. I believe Alan García, ex-president of Peru, was murdered by Jews (he spoke against a "Jewish mafia" before he died).

However, I am a believer in the earth being round and I don't believe I will change my position unless maybe, for example, you can bring a fatwa from Shaykh Fawzan or Shaykh Albaani saying they found proof from Quran and Sunnah that the earth is flat. However, from what I've read there is a consensus among the scholars and if the scholars say it's round I don't see any reason to think otherwise.

 

[VCheng]

Also, I think it is crazy to believe that the earth revolves around the sun. I believe that the sun revolves around the earth and I believe this is the Quranically correct position.

What an interesting concept. I am truly amazed. Please do explain more.

 

[Omar Al-Deek]

It's quite fun at the start, then it starts getting tedious, imagine trying to convince someone 1+1=2 and they refuse to believe it.

I think so many lies are spread that it's kind of natural that people will question what they were taught about the shape of the earth. I believe the answer is to turn to the scholars and see what the scholars have to say.

I'm not necessarily out to convince anyone. If someone very stubbornly believes something which is false, you can walk away. I try not to argue with people. I express my view and I try to avoid debating. I don't like to debate. I think it's not conducive to examination of things.

 

[Krptonite]

I like to listen to what people have to say. I'm not the type to yell at people or get aggressive because they disagree. If anything, maybe I become sad that they are misguided and maybe pray for God to guide them.

However, this is a fun and interesting issue and it's also one where I don't think we're going to go to Jannah or Jahannam based on this.

Myself, I am a proud round-earther. I am also a conspiracy theorist. I do not believe that the NASA people in the 60's went to the moon. I believe the moon landing is fake.

Also, I think it is crazy to believe that the earth revolves around the sun. I believe that the sun revolves around the earth and I believe this is the Quranically correct position.

So I don't believe everything the media says or that is taught in schools. I don't trust NASA either.

However, I love and I trust our Muslim scholars.

Furthermore, if we want to know the shape if the earth I believe we should not go to NASA- I believe we should go to Quran and Sunnah.

"Ibn Hazm (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

The proofs of the Qur’an and Sunnah indicate that it is round. End quote."

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/211...ou-the-earth-wide-spread-an-expanse-nooh-7119

If Quran and Sunnah say it's round, it is round and I can sleep with the assurance that it is round.

"More than one of the scholars have narrated that there is consensus that the Earth is round. For example:

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) narrated that from Abu’l-Husayn ibn al-Munaadi (may Allah have mercy on him), when he said:

Imam Abu’l-Husayn Ahmad ibn Ja‘far ibn al-Munaadi narrated from the prominent scholars who are well known for knowledge of reports and major works in religious sciences, from the second level of Ahmad’s companions, that there was no difference of opinion among the scholars that the sky is like a ball.

He said: Similarly they were unanimously agreed that the Earth, with all that is contains of land and sea is like a ball. He said: That is indicated by the fact that the sun, moon and stars do not rise and set over those who are in different parts of the earth at the same time; rather that occurs in the east before it occurs in the west.

End quote from Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa (25/195)"

I love and I trust Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah and I am confident that he was not an agent of NASA.

Furthermore, I can understand how a scholar today might feel pressure to say it's round- if a scholar says "it's flat," the anti-Muslim types will laugh at them and be disrespectful, insulting the poor man and saying they're "unscientific". This era is one where people basically worship science.

I believe Ibn Kathir as well believed in round earth. Why would Ibn Kathir and Ibn Taymiyyah (God forbid) not tell the truth? Since they lived in the Middle Ages, I don't think it would have been seen as being as big a deal if they were to say the earth is flat today. I don't think people worshipped "science" in the way they do now.

Also, Shaykh Uthaymeen believed in a round earth: "Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

The earth is round, based on the evidence of the Qur’an, reality, and scientific views."

(quote is from the same fatwa)

I know Shaykh Uthaymeen lived in the modern day but I have a book with a translation of his fatwa that says the sun revolves around the earth. I love Shaykh Uthaymeen and I think he was a great scholar. Furthermore, if he was willing to say the sun revolves around the earth, why would he lie (God forbid) about the shape of the earth?

So I believe that the earth is round, I am a proud round-earther and I believe in such a way not because the lying NASA tells me so (I say they lie because I think they lied about the alleged moon landing) but because the scholars say so and I consider them the leaders of the Ummah. I can sleep easy at night, believing in what great scholars say and not believing in what fake "celebrity sheikhs" on YouTube tell me or what NASA tells me.

I believe in many "conspiracy theories". I believe the hippie movement was a CIA creation. I think Jews were behind 9/11. I believe Alan García, ex-president of Peru, was murdered by Jews (he spoke against a "Jewish mafia" before he died).

However, I am a believer in the earth being round and I don't believe I will change my position unless maybe, for example, you can bring a fatwa from Shaykh Fawzan or Shaykh Albaani saying they found proof from Quran and Sunnah that the earth is flat. However, from what I've read there is a consensus among the scholars and if the scholars say it's round I don't see any reason to think otherwise.

You can personally buy or borrow a strong enough laser to validate whether NASA went to the moon, they left reflective panels there.


Funnily enough the cinematic technology available then, to fake moon landing, wasn't developed at the level it is today, and wouldn't have been able to convincingly fake it.

Humans reaching the moon is one of the most important achievements in our history, the hard work, the ingenuity, the dedication required to perform this feat was immense.

I think so many lies are spread that it's kind of natural that people will question what they were taught about the shape of the earth. I believe the answer is to turn to the scholars and see what the scholars have to say.

I'm not necessarily out to convince anyone. If someone very stubbornly believes something which is false, you can walk away. I try not to argue with people. I express my view and I try to avoid debating. I don't like to debate. I think it's not conducive to examination of things.

Therein lies the disagreement, science is not best left to scholars and their interpretations, it's the search for truth, debate in of itself is not bad if the goal is to further your knowledge and not " how can I own this fool"

 

[Taimoor Khan]

One thing I cant get my head around with earth being a nicely rounded sphere is the vast oceans and water. How water stick in a nice "rounded" shape specially in southern hemisphere where it is water property to flatten itself out.

 

[VCheng]

How water stick in a nice "rounded" shape specially in southern hemisphere where it is water property to flatten itself out.

How does water get this property to flatten itself out?

 

[Krptonite]

One thing I cant get my head around with earth being a nicely rounded sphere is the vast oceans and water. How water stick in a nice "rounded" shape specially in southern hemisphere where it is water property to flatten itself out.

It's not a nice rounded sphere, it's a lump of rock moulded by years of celestial mass impacts, the closest geometrical figure that it resembles is a sphere. Here's what scientist estimate it to actually look like, an obloidish shape

 

[Omar Al-Deek]

What an interesting concept. I am truly amazed. Please do explain more.

JazakAllahkhair.

Yes, I was amazed when I read about this. I have a two volume of set of fatawaa (translated) from Shaykh Uthaymeen and that was where I read the fatwa. I will provide a link to the fatwa below, insha'Allah.

When I was at the masjid where I attend, I had someone ask the Sheikh for me about this (this other brother had to ask because the Sheikh is from Yemen and speaks Arabic) and the Sheikh said the same thing as Sheikh Uthaymeen.

Here is a quote from the fatwa of Shaykh Uthaymeen (I will put the link below insha'Allah since the full fatwa is a little long and I don't want to take up too much of the page):

Question: Does the Sun revolve around the earth?

It is apparent from the Islamic evidences that they confirm that it is the sun which revolves around the earth, and by its revolving the alternation of night and day takes place on the surface of the earth. It is not for us to exceed the apparent meaning of these evidences without some evidence stronger than that, which permits us to explain them differently from their apparent meaning.

http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=6&Topic=6338

 

[FalconStar]

You can literally see the video and understand the concept and arguments there in before posting a so called live feed. I can make a live feed of dinosaurs walking the earth tomorrow, except it will all be CGI, how do you know its the truth?

Please do I'll like to see that.