The Construction of a New Pakistani Identity

[Jungibaaz]

Personally I don't see value in thinking about contrived efforts to build an identity, especially a new one. We've had identity problems for a while now. Alongside normal development of identity, a sort of militaristic/nationalistic identity has developed, Pakistan's resemblances to Israel are uncanny in many ways. National identities form over time with the right kind of development and stability.

What's needed now in my honest opinion is better administration in Pakistan, political reform to redistribute power more evenly among regions, and an going (and hopefully improving) democratic process. Pakistan faces a lot of threats. Political stability, peace and economic development are the foundation upon which a national identity will form. Iran is a country that has been besieged for a very long time, they're blessed with natural resources, but it's their will power and unity that has kept them from crumbling, if being an Islamic Republic offers this strength to Pakistan, then it's a blessing.

On an aside, I think that simple things like Coke Studio have done more to boost Pakistani identity than anything any political party has done in the last 10 years.

 

[Zhukov]

Quite constructive, thank you!

I shall say only this, do not question my loyalty to Pakistan, sir. I love it more than I do anything else on the face of the earth. My devotion to Pakistan is unquestioned.
I've only posted this thread to bring about discussion of a topic that actually merits discussion. I can not continue to watch my country burn helplessly.

The last thing I want is the Balkanisation of Pakistan based on religio-ethnic lines. I detest ethnic and caste divisions. I simply want us to be united and on one page in our national discourse.
That is the very point of this thread. To ensure that we are united as Pakistanis and nothing else. That we become inclusive and homogenous, and the segregation and prejudice we see in society is brought to an end.

Plus, I'm not a fascist. Nowhere near it.

Why are you giving him or any other Neo Mullah any explanation of your loyalty?
This is always the case. One says a thing, they create a "Toofan e Badtameezi". first they call you disloyal question your Loyalty, then go all out against your Emaan and declare you anti Islam. And Peopel start to give them explanation.
That Apologetic attitude against these Reactive people is the very reason they are always on top.

Tell me one thing. If some one Start to abuse you calling names to your mother. will you start to explain to him that your mother is a good person? No you will slap his face or ignore him altogether. Do the same with these people distributing Certificates of Patriotism and Emaan.

 

[El Sidd]

Why are you giving him or any other Neo Mullah any explanation of your loyalty?
This is always the case. One says a thing, they create a "Toofan e Badtameezi". first they call you disloyal question your Loyalty, then go all out against your Emaan and declare you anti Islam. And Peopel start to give them explanation.
That Apologetic attitude against these Reactive people is the very reason they are always on top.

Tell me one thing. If some one Start to abuse you calling names to your mother. will you start to explain to him that your mother is a good person? No you will slap his face or ignore him altogether. Do the same with these people distributing Certificates of Patriotism and Emaan.

Why don't you quote me directly if you are interested in labeling people as mullah or neo mullah?
Playing victim will not help your cause.

An Indian and a person who called for genocide of 10 million Pakistanis LIKED your post.

 

[HariPrasad]

Right, do excuse me but I've been giving this a bit of thought recently, especially in light of recent events.

Do we need to construct a new identity for ourselves as Pakistanis?

As I understand, following independence, Pakistan, in an attempt to build its own identity, clung to a strong Islamic identity in order to protect what may be seen as a very uniquely inorganic state - after all ethnically, there are no Pakistani people in the same fashion as there are Punjabis, Sindis and so forth. We are a people not bound collectively by anything except for a majority religion (of varying interpretation throughout), and a language (native to a very small minority). It developed into a very pan-Islamic interpretation of a nation, something which was greatly accelerated in the 1970s and 1980s, where, for many, a Muslim and Pakistani were (and continue to be) essentially one and the same. Has this led, by any means, to any degree of segregation on grounds of questionable interpretation?

In my mind's eye, I do not see Pakistan making any degree of progress without society becoming inclusive and homogenous, free of prejudice of religion or caste, which is our case today.
Pakistan was, after all, not meant to be a theocracy. Does our identity as Pakistanis not lie in our desire and love for freedom from an oppressive majority (as in pre-partition India)? Have we not become those whom we despised, and strove hard to be freed from? Was our desire for freedom not borne out of an oppressive and unjust majority which subjugated us (something we thought as unjust and wrong)? Have we not become those whom we hated all those years ago?

I do hope that this can be a topic we can discuss seriously.
@Indus Pakistan. @Zibago. I'd like your views.

What was wrong with old identity so that a new Identity is required?

 

[Zhukov]

Why don't you quote me directly if you are interested in labeling people as mullah or neo mullah?
Playing victim will not help your cause.

An Indian and a person who called for genocide of 10 million Pakistanis LIKED your post.

I only control what i say. Not what people think of me. Who ever likes my post is not my concern be it Chengis khan or Winston Churchill. I am not arguing with you or anyone who starts labeling anyone who disagrees with you as disloyal and traitors. I was telling him to stop reacting to anyone who starts questing your loyalty at the first instance. Anyone keep on distributing loyalty and Emaan certificates i have no problem with it. Its a Free Democracy every one is entitled to his view. I can only prey you people get open minded and less reactive and see the damage this approach have done to our beloved country.
Cheers

 

[GHALIB]

Why don't you quote me directly if you are interested in labeling people as mullah or neo mullah?
Playing victim will not help your cause.

An Indian and a person who called for genocide of 10 million Pakistanis LIKED your post.

Talking genocide is bad idea.

 

[El Sidd]

I only control what i say. Not what people think of me. Who ever likes my post is not my concern be it Chengis khan or Winston Churchill. I am not arguing with you or anyone who starts labeling anyone who disagrees with you as disloyal and traitors. I was telling him to stop reacting to anyone who starts questing your loyalty at the first instance. Anyone keep on distributing loyalty and Emaan certificates i have no problem with it. Its a Free Democracy every one is entitled to his view. I can only prey you people get open minded and less reactive and see the damage this approach have done to our beloved country.
Cheers

Neither did i label anyone nor did stop him. I only made an observation that there are forces who would like to raise a situation where ethno fascists and religious fascists will exploit.

It is your paranoia that your included Emaan.

Its a free democracy only for one particular mindset. the rest who exercise the free democracy are sold on to gitmo for better economic reasons.

 

[Solomon2]

What's needed now in my honest opinion is better administration in Pakistan, political reform to redistribute power more evenly among regions, and an going (and hopefully improving) democratic process.

Would you comment on this story, please?

 

[Jungibaaz]

Would you comment on this story, please?

The quoted post of mine was really talking about threats to stability arising from sources other than religious intolerance and extremism/vigilantism, for example the threat of a failure of the current political system, or the clear problem of too much power in the hands of a few people, or uneven distribution between provinces etc.

But since you ask, my views on this matter are clear, I'm against the blasphemy law, and I believe Asia's case is a tragic show of cowering to the wrong kind of political pressure, causing inaction and apathy towards the misuse of a draconian law. The latest court verdict ought to be upheld. I also believe the TLP protesters are a bunch of crazies and goons led by deplorable characters who have nothing of value to contribute to society.

 

[M. Sarmad]

The forum plays host to direct mutiny against the Objective Resolution.

Objectives Resolution of 1949 is a perfect antithesis of Jinnah's vision anyway.

 

[313ghazi]

Personally I don't see value in thinking about contrived efforts to build an identity, especially a new one. We've had identity problems for a while now. Alongside normal development of identity, a sort of militaristic/nationalistic identity has developed, Pakistan's resemblances to Israel are uncanny in many ways. National identities form over time with the right kind of development and stability.

What's needed now in my honest opinion is better administration in Pakistan, political reform to redistribute power more evenly among regions, and an going (and hopefully improving) democratic process. Pakistan faces a lot of threats. Political stability, peace and economic development are the foundation upon which a national identity will form. Iran is a country that has been besieged for a very long time, they're blessed with natural resources, but it's their will power and unity that has kept them from crumbling, if being an Islamic Republic offers this strength to Pakistan, then it's a blessing.

On an aside, I think that simple things like Coke Studio have done more to boost Pakistani identity than anything any political party has done in the last 10 years.

100% agree. Identity politics would be next to dead if we had jobs to keep people busy and fed/clothed and basic decent governance to keep things ticking over. Some effort must be made to nurture and encourage identity, but it's not an uphill struggle when you don't have the divisiveness of ethnic politics and sectarian politics to contend with.

 

[El Sidd]

Objectives Resolution of 1949 is a perfect antithesis of Jinnah's vision anyway.

A thousand mouths and a thousand opinions.

 

[M. Sarmad]

A thousand mouths and a thousand opinions.

Well, the Non Muslims in the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan that passed this resolution, The Chief Justice of Pakistan and the Ulema of Pakistan (all of them) held the opinion that The Objectives Resolution was against the vision of Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/twin-surrenders.532412/page-3#post-10078293

 

[El Sidd]

Well, the Non Muslims in the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan that passed this resolution, The Chief Justice of Pakistan and the Ulema of Pakistan (all of them) held the opinion that The Objectives Resolution was against the vision of Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/twin-surrenders.532412/page-3#post-10078293

Mohammad Ali Jinnah was dead in 1949.

The representatives in the assembly were a bunch of feudal lords. Feudal Lords still want a joint defence pact with India and still wish to become a vassal state for the India since that is where the money is and was and probably will be.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Mohammad Ali Jinnah was dead in 1949.

Yes, you are right. Had Jinnah been alive in 1949, there would have been no "Objectives Resolution of 1949" ...