The Caliber of Gen. Zia

[Zarvan]

Zia have Some Bonus Points - Although he is not my favourite Politician....I used to hate him but he have scored in the innings of Pakistan..
Positives:
1. Busted Russia (Its the Sole task of High Caliber General not Politician)
2. Avoided war with India (which was necessary bcoz of Russians presence in Afghanistan)
3. Atomic Program Completed (started by Bhutto but he absorbed & diverted International pressure)

Negatives:
1. He killed my favorite politician Bhutto
2. Dramatization of Religion Islam with yearly Episodes to prolong his reign
3. Economic Bubble: We enjoyed HEALTHY Economy in His tenure but it was a BUBBLE. As the foreign funding of Cash inflow stopped - Economy gone with severe Repercussions in late 90's.
Instead of investing Foreign US AID to help Economy to Grow like making Motorways / Gwadar in that early time, we can have much higher Edge today.... (He was full time GENERAL not Politician or Economist)
4. He was a general So he can only think next 1 or 2 years, Not 20 to 50 years ahead of his time. Today we're dealing Fatal mistakes done by him.
5. Democracy or Presidency or Else....(Still today we dont know... what type of System of Gov we want)
Killing of Palestinians have nothing to do with History of Pakistan.....

Bhutto got what he deserved Bhutto did same with father of Saad Rafique with father of Ahmed Raza Kasuri although target was Ahmed Raza Kasuri he got one JI leader killed and also one another and as for economy if the BB and Nawaz governments start racing to prove themselves most corrupt he can do nothing Man Generals can thought of years ahead and he was not running the show mostly it was General Akhtar Khan

 

[Windjammer]

F-16s were of no help when it came to Siachen conflict that went in favour of India, in 1984.

I could say your blue water navy proved useless against a certain rubber boat, however first comprehend the context of my reply besides apart from rotary wings, neither country used air force in that sector.

 

[OrionHunter]

It seems like you were either sleeping or never attended any history class.

Even though Pakistan was on offensive but the threat was made in 1987,3years after the siachen battle

And are you aware that ever since, the Pakistan army has been trying its darnedest to capture Siachen but came a cropper each time, notwithstanding your super duper SSG that suffered enormous casualties in trying to do so!

 

[nForce]

I could say your blue water navy proved useless against a certain rubber boat, however first comprehend the context of my reply besides apart from rotary wings, neither country used air force in that sector.

Useless ? Do I have to remind you how a handful of gun boats paralyzed the entire Pakistani navy and imposed a naval blockade in Karachi ?
Was there any agreement between India and Pakistan that they will not use airforce in Siachen ? India didn't use because the necessity was not there.The armed forces only took the point.No particular reason why Pakistan couldn't use airforce to retaliate.

Fast forward to Kargil, a skirmish of almost similar manner.This time, India did use airforce, because there was a necessity.Again,dubiously enough the Pakistani airforce stayed out of this.

That makes me wonder, whether those F-16s are just for show or what?

 

[pursuit of happiness]

@Aeronaut @Spring Onion @chauvunist @Umair Nawaz @farhan_9909 @HRK

--

HE was and is TERRORIST ..
butcher of afg
ruined both the countries ....

 

[Windjammer]

Useless ? Do I have to remind you how a handful of gun boats paralyzed the entire Pakistani navy and imposed a naval blockade in Karachi ?
Was there any agreement between India and Pakistan that they will not use airforce in Siachen ? India didn't use because the necessity was not there.The armed forces only took the point.No particular reason why Pakistan couldn't use airforce to retaliate.

Fast forward to Kargil, a skirmish of almost similar manner.This time, India did use airforce, because there was a necessity.Again,dubiously enough the Pakistani airforce stayed out of this.

That makes me wonder, whether those F-16s are just for show or what?

Nonsensical rant, those weren't just gun boats but missile crafts equipped with Styx missiles, they did cause some damage but far from any blockade. The IAF initially thought of using their Hunters from the display team in Siachin as their como was suitable but found it impossible for a fast jet to determine locations due to the environment, something PAF already concluded.
As for Kargil, may i remind you, India used it's airforce within it's own borders, the few time the Indian crossed into Pak airspace, they found out to their cost.

 

[B+ Dracula]

And yes our Amedi brothers are suffering because of Bhutto, He legalized the crime against Ahmedi brothers.,

They Change Basic Foundation of Islam never done in 1400 years (its all happened in British Era..which make sense), .....its Your right to call them Brothers,

There are some incident when Pakistan underestimated India
1. 1965: Pakistan thought India will not open other front
2. Kargil: Pakistani thought that India will not use full offensive
3. 1971: Pakistani were living in denial

Here you're Right........but in 1971 Pakistan never intended in dreams of Indian attack, Its the period of Political Turmoil and your side took unnecessary advantage.........Right now in the Heat of Arguments its Ok for Indian side
But sooner or later Historians from your side will support Us.
1947 War Incident...can be calm down......
1965 War ......is accepted mistake by our side (few Army General did that) ...."it can be forgotten"
1971 War.....Is Marked with clear Fingerprints of Indian Presence to destabilize Pakistan for Good

3. Mumbai attack: Pakistani out smarted India
4. Parliament attack.

its Non sense....its not in our interest in long term or short term....
Please be rational..... How a group of 3-4 men can do a Miracle for Us ??
World is already Eyeing Us....that is total failure of your side or you people just want to make it happened.....
Bcoz
In the Negotiation (I studied Art of Negotiation...its available on Net).........Weak Arguments can nullify Strong Argument.
Negotiation is giving / receiving concession from other side.
both side decide before negotiation level of giving ...(max level of giving & receiving)
.
Kashmir become flash-point center of conflict after 1999 but in late 2000's both Parliment attack & Mumbai attack favoured which side.?? Ask yourself??

We lost Benazir Bhutto in terror Attacks.....
We lost most Generals in all 4 Warz Combined....
Pakistan is in War with Talibans........Right now.....

We cant afford full Conflict with India when we're alredy in War
- No Resources
- No backup army

 

[Black Widow]

They Change Basic Foundation of Islam never done in 1400 years (its all happened in British Era..which make sense), .....its Your right to call them Brothers,


Here you're Right........but in 1971 Pakistan never intended in dreams of Indian attack, Its the period of Political Turmoil and your side took unnecessary advantage.........Right now in the Heat of Arguments its Ok for Indian side
But sooner or later Historians from your side will support Us.
1947 War Incident...can be calm down......
1965 War ......is accepted mistake by our side (few Army General did that) ...."it can be forgotten"
1971 War.....Is Marked with clear Fingerprints of Indian Presence to destabilize Pakistan for Good


its Non sense....its not in our interest in long term or short term....
Please be rational..... How a group of 3-4 men can do a Miracle for Us ??
World is already Eyeing Us....that is total failure of your side or you people just want to make it happened.....
Bcoz
In the Negotiation (I studied Art of Negotiation...its available on Net).........Weak Arguments can nullify Strong Argument.
Negotiation is giving / receiving concession from other side.
both side decide before negotiation level of giving ...(max level of giving & receiving)
.
Kashmir become flash-point center of conflict after 1999 but in late 2000's both Parliment attack & Mumbai attack favoured which side.?? Ask yourself??

I call Hindu/Muslim/Shia/Ahmedi every one brother. The religion is not absolute, it changes. What right for Muslim are not right for Hindus. (Religion is very personal thing, one should not fight for religion)

Just because 1999 Attack favor India doesn't mean that India stage that attack. Entire world know the truth.

Moreover Zia-Ul-Haq Islamisation of Pakistan is hurting Pakistan the most.

 

[shuntmaster]

I could say your blue water navy proved useless against a certain rubber boat, however first comprehend the context of my reply besides apart from rotary wings, neither country used air force in that sector.

Your nukes were useless against a bunch of semi literature terrorists with rifles infiltrate PNS Mehran and destroy the Orion aircrafts...ditto for PAF Kamra base attack which destroyed many of your AWACS

 

[B+ Dracula]

Bhutto got what he deserved Bhutto did same with father of Saad Rafique with father of Ahmed Raza Kasuri although target was Ahmed Raza Kasuri he got one JI leader killed and also one another and as for economy if the BB and Nawaz governments start racing to prove themselves most corrupt he can do nothing Man Generals can thought of years ahead and he was not running the show mostly it was General Akhtar Khan

You know Hajaj Bin Yousaf..?? He was called Butcher till that day you are unable count his Massive Achievements....
People of his time wont understand the greatness of that men....

 

[Zarvan]

You know Hajaj Bin Yousaf..?? He was called Butcher till that day you are unable count his Massive Achievements....
People of his time wont understand the greatness of that men....

Achievement doesn't mean you start killing your political rivals which Bhutto did and as for Bhutto achievements my foot Mr it was he who also destroyed the economy the policy of nationalization proved fatal for us and also he had quite a role in breaking of Pakistan the start of nuclear program and declaring Qadyanis non Muslims are his only two achievements

 

[Iggy]

Yet an another feel good threads from our friendly neighborhood!! These guys believe what ever thing some blogs feed them!!

 

[Windjammer]

@Irfan Baloch @Zarvan @farhan_9909 @PWFI @secretservice @Aeronaut @Shahmir kashmir

I believe this is the edition of India Today which carried the story, subject of this article.

 

[rockstar08]

ahem ahem
BBC News - Condoms 'too big' for Indian men

 

[Irfan Baloch]

And what about the genocidal murderer of Sikhs and her kin.......

yes Zia was bad and died in a plane crash but two great Gandhis met a fitting end as well

best part by their own people who they antagonized.