Brother
@Timur you are spot on.
and once there was a time when Muslim Empires gained admiration for their Justice System, Military Tactics and the their governing methods.
and now our power is shown by a piece of cloth............damn thats a lot of progress
You have only so called liberal secular "muslims" or in some cases feminist "muslims" to blame for that. Muslims need to to defend the very basic tenet of their religion from intellectually disingenuous arguments of secularists, liberals and feminist "muslims" who have been totally intellectually colonized. Talk about islamic justice system or governance and western sponsored secularists will cry human rights , democracy and freedom of speech.
@Luffy 500
Ask your 'daddy Saudi' if they will ever dare to declare war on the French or the US.
We know they will unleash their state Mullahs on a rampage against Assad, Iran and Russia. Will they create any noise against America?
What have saudis got to do with this? Can you think properly? Do you have a functioning brain?
I am against - and have stated this on the forum - the incident where it seems that a bunch of French police are bullying a lone woman.
But this is a stupid defence, one of the worst I have read in a long time. The author seems to be herself an obscurantist responding to the debate by trying to prove her own religious superiority.
For example:
Erm, why? How?
I understand that 'nation' can conceptually mean many things. But if you are the 'best nation' then why are do all those who believe like you still live in the western world?. Should they not live where all of them believe in Allah?
LOL. If you're going to debate kindly don't throw your fervour at me, disguised as logic.
Muslims should use their own arguments rather than using liberal arguments for their rights.Buying into narrative of western superiority is self-defeating and humiliating but that exactly what happens when muslims use liberal arguments of "freedom and choice".
Secularism does NOT guarantee every choice. You don't have the choice of not paying taxes or questioning the holocaust. Now if French claim that muslims women by following their religion are making a political statement , a statement that is against what french state stand for - the french version of secularism does NOT grantee freedom for muslims in that case. That's the hypocrisy and inherent contradiction and fallacy of secularism. Its for the majority by the majority without a hint of justice or fair play.
They have every right to ban the burkini and the hijabi, ban the quran, and also ban all mosques across the country. It's their country their laws.
The french have a right to their hate.
On a personal level I think it is detrimental on a humanistic basis... but ultimately the 50+1% will decide the fate of that land.
The burkini ban just shows how pathetic and impotent muslims have become.. They would never dream of touching an orthodox Jewish woman covered from head to toes. Because we are nothing but unproductive members of society who have not excelled in economic and social power. If Europe kicked out all muslims from all countries... you know what the negative impact would be on Europe?... Nothing! Except for some delays getting a taxi.
Pakistan is our safety net.. A safety for the south Asian muslims... so work to keep it.
Brother i understand what you are saying but Jews and christians who have assimilated with secular liberal western culture are jews and christians in name only. They are bonafide liberal secularists as liberal secularism is the new religion of the west NOT judaism or christianity. Western states are post-christian states.
France is a state that is founded on DE-christianization. Within 10 years of french revolution , priests and nuns were slaughtered in mass and 1000s of churches were closed. The same goes for muslims who assimilate (note - don't mistake integration with assimilation , muslims are well integrated in the west) and reach high posts. They are muslims in name only eg - look at the mayor of london :
https://defence.pk/threads/tolerance-and-the-first-muslim-mayor-in-europe.431167/
A muslim with a beard can NOT ever become mayor of london and neither can a sister in niqab become an MP in UK parliament.What the west want from muslims is complete assimilation into majority culture NOT mere integration.
Orthodox jews are fringe minority and as such they don't stand out. Muslims are considerable in number and hence a sore in the eyes of Europeans who see muslims as a challenge to their colonial notion of superiority. A muslim women wearing a veil or covering herself properly is spitting on the face of western standard of freedom and choice ..............at least that's how the Europeans see it.
Their country their rule. Forcefully remove the burqa, demolition of mosques, go even to extreme that Muslims need to change their name. I can still bet non of the muslim will leave that country to live in any middle eastern country. Cause lets face it they love western society rather then so called Islamic republics/ dictatorships . So if you love to live with them then act like them also.
What are you talking about? There is NO such thing as Islamic dictatorships.
Dictatorships in muslim states are virulently secular and are ruled by westernized natives who are natives in body only - their mind and soul are totally western.
- Secular Turkey was founded by a westernized dictator who hated Islam with a passion.
- Secular Tunisia's founder was French mind , body and soul. In Tunisia hijab was also banned until recently and still conservative tunisians are looked down upon by secularists elites.
- You can not even have a beard in central asian countries eg. Tajikistan. Even Hijab (NOT niqab) is banned there too.
- Egypt's Nasser idolized attaturk and was virulently secular. Current dictator Sisi is hailed in western press as a secular reformer.
- Bangladesh is secular and ruled by a Indian implanted autocratic secular party.
- Syria's Assad dynasty is characterized by their anti-islamic bigotry.
- The same goes for countries like Algeria, Jordan , morocco , Gaddafi's libya.
Well, the courts overturned the Burkini ban. It's not a perfect system, but it proves that if enough people support something, it will survive.
That is democracy. Can you show me a working example of a better system?
Ps all your opinions seem sourced from sites like islam21c, islamqa, 5pillarz... Do you have any original thoughts? Or do you learn your opinion from whatever 16 year old 'scholar' writes the comment piece?
What's the point? Niqab is still banned there. The burkini ban was a fuss over literally basic covering of women's body. Sarcozy (widely expected to win) has made banning burkini a part of his election manifesto. France is the hallmark of a secular state in its pristine form. DO you know that the secular European court of "human rights" used to upheld Turkey's Hijab ban laws?
As for websites from where i post , well all of those sites are very credible and authentic run by well known respected people. Islam QA is run by a world renowned saudi scholar of medina university. 5pillarz and islam21c are legal news website based in the UK.
You seem to have a shallow flawed understanding of a scholar. A 16 year old can NOT be a scholar. You need to study islamic sciences 16 years at least to earn the status of scholar. NO wonder you are so ignorant with ridiculous presumptions.
The courts just overturned it. Said courts are based on secular laws so........
I don't know what else you want me to say.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Means absolutely nothing. This whole fuss shows that Europe has a problem with mere existence of muslim in europe
I just want to make you promoters of secularism who disingenuously oppose Islam , look yourselves in the mirror before trying to force your corrupt ideology on muslims in muslim lands.
Courts recognized the stupidity of the ban, especially considering it broke French laws on freedom of religion.
Having said that, it isn't over. Two major right wing parties, NF and Sarkozy's party, have made the banning of the Burkini, as well as the hijab and every single Islamic clothing, a part of their election campaign. Sarkozy has indicated that he's willing to change the constitution, in order to get a permanent ban, but that is unlikely to happen. Such a thing is not only difficult, but prone to court challenges that can last years, rendering the intent to change pointless.
There are strong arguments within Frace's laicite to ban burkini. It will most likely will get banned .............at least the drama won't be over.
Secularism does NOT mean freedom of religion. It means freedom from religion or freedom as defined by majority society and societal norms. Anything that is based on religion is NOT considered fair , neutral or acceptable in secular system. Concept of fairness,justice, neutrality, rights are all based on opposition to religion or things outside religion. NOW many of their societal norms are derived from judeo-christian-european pagan values , but that's cultural for them and something they can identify with. Islam on the other hand is something they can NOT identify with . Its foreign and alien to them and thus European secularism can't stand it.
