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Talks for Su-35, Mi-35 sales to Pakistan are underway: Russian Deputy FM

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How many Su-35 we should buy?
The total price for the 48 fighters will be US$1.58 billion, sources told the newspaper. Konstantin Makiyenko, an analyst from the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies in Moscow, said this is the largest deal between UAC and the defense ministry this year, since the air force may not purchase additional Su-30SM fighters and Su-34 tactical bombers in near future.
source:
PLA must pay double Russian Air Force's price for Su-35 fighter|WCT

Lets not jump the gun here.

The Su-35 is truly a very good fighter. Some talks on a possible sale most likely took place. Hence the news. Even the Russian Ambassador to India didn't say there were no such talks. What he said was that the news was an overstatement. Which may have been to placate the media outburst over the news. However it is absolutely too early to predict whether all this will end up in an actual deal. Things don't happen that way. These are long drawn processes and anything can happen.

So first, lets see how this pans out and not be hasty and count our chickens before they hatch.

Personally I really do like this plane and the PAF have always been missing an Air Superiority Fighter and this fighter is not only that but it is also an excellent strike fighter.

Also I would like to point out that some fellow members are saying that the Chinese Su-27/30 derivatives are also a very good option (J-11D especially). Well the problem, in my humble opinion, is that there is a bit of bad blood between Russia and China on the issue of China reverse engineering the Su-27/30 family ... and there is a tacit agreement that China won't export those fighters.
 
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Well Russia could have sold Pakistan few Migs and India would have sulked and carried on but SU35s are a different story. You assume that Russia is so pissed about the fact that India has started to buy from Israel and the West that it will sell SU35s to Pakistan to teach India a lesson.

Why do you think its about teaching India a lesson? Why can't it not be about just finding a customer for one of the best fighter jets that you produce and ignoring or pacifying the insecurities of your old (but recently diversified) business partner simultaneously?

As far as the threat to Indian security is concerned, Russia already supplies top end weapons to China so from Russian POV it doesn't care if the weapons are going into an anti Indian nation.
 
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Why do you think its about teaching India a lesson? Why can't it not be about just finding a customer for one of the best fighter jets that you produce and ignoring or pacifying the insecurities of your old (but recently diversified) business partner simultaneously?

As far as the threat to Indian security is concerned, Russia already supplies top end weapons to China so from Russian POV it doesn't care if the weapons are going into an anti Indian nation.

You probably don't understand the kind of relations that India and USSR (now Russia) has enjoyed over the years. If that relationship still exists then if times comes probably Russia itself will have to fly against there own SU35s. If Russia sells SU35s to Pakistan it will be a 360 degree turnaround in Indian Russian relations. Heck even France stopped selling Pakistan cutting edge tech (with no real history or strategic partnership with India) for a fraction of what Russia earns from India

China is another story, as I said earlier Chinese have the dollars and it's probably the biggest market so it's a different story there
 
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Well according to most sources Su-35S has a much reduced RCS compared to the Su-30. I mean if MiG could reduce the RCS of MiG-29K to 1/4th of the standard MiG-29 then why couldn't Sukhoi do the same? Also here is a reference that I have found on the RCS of the Su-35 ...

Deagel: Su-35
Crew: 1
External Stations: 12
Number of Engines: 2
Service Life Flight Hours: 6,000
Area
Radar Cross Section (RCS): 0.50 square meter (5,000 square cm)
Dimensions

Height: 5.90 meter (19.4 foot)
Length: 21.9 meter (72 foot)
Main Gun Caliber: 30 millimeter
Wingspan: 15.3 meter (50 foot)
G-load
Max Maneuvering Load Factor: 9 g
Performance
Ceiling: 19,000 meter (62,336 foot)
Ferry Range: 4,500 kilometer (2,430 nautical mile)
Max Range: 3,600 kilometer (1,944 nautical mile)
Max Range at Sea Level: 1,580 kilometer
Speed
Cruise Speed: 1.20 mach (398 mps)
Top Speed at High Altitude: 2,500 kph (2.09 mach)
Top Speed at Sea Level: 1,400 kph (1.17 mach)
Time
Service Life: 30 year
Time Between Overhaul: 10 year
Weight
Fuel Load: 11,500 kilogram (25,353 pound)
Max Takeoff Thrust: 29,000 kilogram (63,933 pound)
Max Takeoff Weight: 34,500 kilogram (76,058 pound)
Operational Weight: 25,300 kilogram (55,776 pound)
Payload: 8,000 kilogram (17,637 pound)
 
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do it ! :agree:

anigif_enhanced-buzz-28053-1381426017-24.gif


all through his career he saw it as big as a basketball anyway, eh ?
Smiley-India.gif

Yeah!!!! he saw it as big as a basketball but when Shoaib Akhtar came things changed. :pakistan:

CbGZ4k6.gif
 
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Lets not jump the gun here.

The Su-35 is truly a very good fighter. Some talks on a possible sale most likely took place. Hence the news. Even the Russian Ambassador to India didn't say there were no such talks. What he said was that the news was an overstatement. Which may have been to placate the media outburst over the news. However it is absolutely too early to predict whether all this will end up in an actual deal. Things don't happen that way. These are long drawn processes and anything can happen.

So first, lets see how this pans out and not be hasty and count our chickens before they hatch.

Personally I really do like this plane and the PAF have always been missing an Air Superiority Fighter and this fighter is not only that but it is also an excellent strike fighter.

Also I would like to point out that some fellow members are saying that the Chinese Su-27/30 derivatives are also a very good option (J-11D especially). Well the problem, in my humble opinion, is that there is a bit of bad blood between Russia and China on the issue of China reverse engineering the Su-27/30 family ... and there is a tacit agreement that China won't export those fighters.
Its almost 100th time , you are trying your best to clear the minds & hearts of a Indian ?
If it wasn't cleared 99 times before , how would it will be done now ?
 
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Coming Soon: Russian Su-35s to Pakistan and American F-35s to India?
6120285680_2e19f607f6_b.jpg

Dave Majumdar
September 14, 2015


Russia seems to be eager to antagonize both friend and foe alike these days.

In a move that seems to be completely inexplicable, Russia is apparently negotiating to sell Pakistan advanced Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E fighters along with Mi-35 Hind-E attack helicopters. Perhaps more amazingly, the Russians don’t seem to grasp that their Indian allies are likely to react extremely negatively at the prospect of such a deal.


“I do not think that the contracts under discussion will cause jealousy on the part of any of the two sides,” Russian deputy foreign minister Sergei Ryabkov told state-owned Russian media outlet Sputnik on Sept. 9.

Despite the fact that the two South Asian nations share linguistic, cultural, geographic and economic links—and are part of the same civilization—they have fought three full-scale wars over the past several decades. At the best of times, their relationship has been fraught with hostility and suspicion—and that probably won’t improve until the generation that lived through the 1947 partition of India passes on. As Australian defense analyst Brian Cloughley told Defense News: “The Indians would be extremely upset, to the point of a major diplomatic rift.”

An Edge for Pakistan?:

Acquisition of the Su-35 would probably give Pakistan a marginal edge in terms of capability over India’s two-seat Su-30MKI if it is bought in numbers, but the newer Flanker model only offers modest improvements over its predecessor. Most of those could likely be retrofitted to the Indian Air Force (IAF) Flanker fleet. In fact, there are indications that Russia and India are discussing modernizing the IAF Su-30 fleet.

How Would India Respond?:

However, Russia’s move to supply India’s archenemy with advanced weapons could lead to the nascent South Asian giant turning further towards the United States and Europe. Indian prime minister Narendra Modi has already signaled his intention to purchase 36 Dassault Rafale multirole fighters off-the-shelf from France after the cancellation of the long-running Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) debacle. And there are some signs that a deal could be imminent.

If Russia starts to sell weapons to Pakistan, that could mean that France and the Eurofighter consortium will be in a far better position for when India inevitably issues another tender to replace its dwindling and increasingly decrepit fleet of antiquated Soviet-built MiG-21s and MiG-23s. Moreover, the prospect of Su-35s in Pakistani hands could prompt the Indians to act with a sense of urgency as they watch their perceived advantages erode away.



Another possibility is that because India urgently needs to start recapitalizing its rapidly dwindling fighter inventory, they could opt to simply extend the Rafale buy to the original numbers envisioned for the MMRCA program. It would be an expensive proposition, but national security concerns might force India’s hand. In any case, the Rafale offers better technology and is probably a more effective aircraft overall than the Russian fighter.

Would India Purchase U.S. Jets in Response?:

There is also the prospect that India might move to buy fighter aircraft from the United States once it restarts the MMRCA program. The Lockheed Martin F-16IN and the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet were both rejected last time around, but the United States does not have to offer the India a fourth-generation plane.

The United States could offer India participation on the Lockheed F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. Frankly, the United States has the wherewithal to offer India access to much better technology than Russia could ever hope to with the F-35 and follow-on projects. For India, the F-35 would kill two birds with one stone: access to advanced technology, and a trump card over Pakistan and China (in some respects). The only downside is that India would have to abide by U.S. restrictions on the aircraft--which it has traditionally resisted.

In fact, U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter—when he was still the undersecretary of defense for acquisition, technology and logistics had expressed his willingness to sell India the fifth-generation stealth fighter in response to a question I had posed to him during an event at the Carnegie Endowment in January 2011.

"There is nothing on our side, no principle which bars that on our side, Indian participation in the Joint Strike Fighter. Right now, they're focused on these aircraft (F-16IN and F/A-18E/F) which are top-of-the-line fourth-generation fighters," Carter had said at the time.

Only time will tell if Russia ends up selling advanced weapons to Pakistan and driving India into a closer relationship with Europe and the United States. But, if Russia sells Su-35s to Pakistan, there is a chance one might see F-35s wearing IAF colors one day in the not so distant future.

Dave Majumdar is the defense editor for The National Interest. You can follow him on Twitter: @DaveMajumdar.
Indian military establishments , hardest media effort to send a clear message to RUSSIA that if they sell SU-35 to Pakistan ,India will throw its whole dam wallet to USA ?
Will that stop RUSSIA ?no way !
Cause the whole world knows that well , AMERICA is in no position to match its own needs of F-35 & even its listed allies won't be getting a single pice of F-35 IN COMMING FUTURE let's say within next 5 to 7 years ?
But within that time ,Russia can give Pakistan at least a few sqd ?
This stupid media long shot has exposed India ,s long kept weakness ?
 
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Indian military establishments , hardest media effort to send a clear message to RUSSIA that if they sell SU-35 to Pakistan ,India will throw its whole dam wallet to USA ?
Will that stop RUSSIA ?no way !
Cause the whole world knows that well , AMERICA is in no position to match its own needs of F-35 & even its listed allies won't be getting a single pice of F-35 IN COMMING FUTURE let's say within next 5 to 7 years ?
But within that time ,Russia can give Pakistan at least a few sqd ?
This stupid media long shot has exposed India ,s long kept weakness ?
now thats interesting but tell me dear sir do you realli think russia will risk its future protects with india to sell a few su-35s to pakistan when khair janne do :azn:
 
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Coming Soon: Russian Su-35s to Pakistan and American F-35s to India?
6120285680_2e19f607f6_b.jpg

Dave Majumdar
September 14, 2015


Russia seems to be eager to antagonize both friend and foe alike these days.

In a move that seems to be completely inexplicable, Russia is apparently negotiating to sell Pakistan advanced Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E fighters along with Mi-35 Hind-E attack helicopters. Perhaps more amazingly, the Russians don’t seem to grasp that their Indian allies are likely to react extremely negatively at the prospect of such a deal.


“I do not think that the contracts under discussion will cause jealousy on the part of any of the two sides,” Russian deputy foreign minister Sergei Ryabkov told state-owned Russian media outlet Sputnik on Sept. 9.

Despite the fact that the two South Asian nations share linguistic, cultural, geographic and economic links—and are part of the same civilization—they have fought three full-scale wars over the past several decades. At the best of times, their relationship has been fraught with hostility and suspicion—and that probably won’t improve until the generation that lived through the 1947 partition of India passes on. As Australian defense analyst Brian Cloughley told Defense News: “The Indians would be extremely upset, to the point of a major diplomatic rift.”

An Edge for Pakistan?:

Acquisition of the Su-35 would probably give Pakistan a marginal edge in terms of capability over India’s two-seat Su-30MKI if it is bought in numbers, but the newer Flanker model only offers modest improvements over its predecessor. Most of those could likely be retrofitted to the Indian Air Force (IAF) Flanker fleet. In fact, there are indications that Russia and India are discussing modernizing the IAF Su-30 fleet.

How Would India Respond?:

However, Russia’s move to supply India’s archenemy with advanced weapons could lead to the nascent South Asian giant turning further towards the United States and Europe. Indian prime minister Narendra Modi has already signaled his intention to purchase 36 Dassault Rafale multirole fighters off-the-shelf from France after the cancellation of the long-running Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) debacle. And there are some signs that a deal could be imminent.

If Russia starts to sell weapons to Pakistan, that could mean that France and the Eurofighter consortium will be in a far better position for when India inevitably issues another tender to replace its dwindling and increasingly decrepit fleet of antiquated Soviet-built MiG-21s and MiG-23s. Moreover, the prospect of Su-35s in Pakistani hands could prompt the Indians to act with a sense of urgency as they watch their perceived advantages erode away.



Another possibility is that because India urgently needs to start recapitalizing its rapidly dwindling fighter inventory, they could opt to simply extend the Rafale buy to the original numbers envisioned for the MMRCA program. It would be an expensive proposition, but national security concerns might force India’s hand. In any case, the Rafale offers better technology and is probably a more effective aircraft overall than the Russian fighter.

Would India Purchase U.S. Jets in Response?:

There is also the prospect that India might move to buy fighter aircraft from the United States once it restarts the MMRCA program. The Lockheed Martin F-16IN and the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet were both rejected last time around, but the United States does not have to offer the India a fourth-generation plane.

The United States could offer India participation on the Lockheed F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. Frankly, the United States has the wherewithal to offer India access to much better technology than Russia could ever hope to with the F-35 and follow-on projects. For India, the F-35 would kill two birds with one stone: access to advanced technology, and a trump card over Pakistan and China (in some respects). The only downside is that India would have to abide by U.S. restrictions on the aircraft--which it has traditionally resisted.

In fact, U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter—when he was still the undersecretary of defense for acquisition, technology and logistics had expressed his willingness to sell India the fifth-generation stealth fighter in response to a question I had posed to him during an event at the Carnegie Endowment in January 2011.

"There is nothing on our side, no principle which bars that on our side, Indian participation in the Joint Strike Fighter. Right now, they're focused on these aircraft (F-16IN and F/A-18E/F) which are top-of-the-line fourth-generation fighters," Carter had said at the time.

Only time will tell if Russia ends up selling advanced weapons to Pakistan and driving India into a closer relationship with Europe and the United States. But, if Russia sells Su-35s to Pakistan, there is a chance one might see F-35s wearing IAF colors one day in the not so distant future.

Dave Majumdar is the defense editor for The National Interest. You can follow him on Twitter: @DaveMajumdar.
Indian military establishments , hardest media effort to send a clear message to RUSSIA that if they sell SU-35 to Pakistan ,India will throw its whole dam wallet to USA ?
Will that stop RUSSIA ?no way !
Cause the whole world knows that well , AMERICA is in no position to match its own needs of F-35 & even its listed allies won't be getting a single pice of F-35 IN COMMING FUTURE let's say within next 5 to 7 years ?
But within that time ,Russia can give Pakistan at least a few sqd ?
This stupid media long shot has exposed India ,s long kept weakness ?
& from now on words Pakistan ,Russia , China & even america will play the tango games with India taking out its whole dam wallet ?lolzz

now thats interesting but tell me dear sir do you realli think russia will risk its future protects with india to sell a few su-35s to pakistan when khair janne do :azn:
What risks Russia has from india ?to its future ,if its sells the SU 35 to Pakistan ?
I mean, this whole risks calculations are mostly Indian mind set ,which was dented by Russian FM s statement on the issue ?
If they were so affraid , would they be giving these kind of open statment ?
Think before what you post ?lolzzz
 
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What risks Russia has from india ?to its future ,if its sells the SU 35 to Pakistan ?
I mean, this whole risks calculations are mostly Indian mind set ,which was dented by Russian FM s statement on the issue ?
If they were so affraid , would they be giving these kind of open statment ?
Think before what you post ?lolzzz

thats because russia wants india to buy its su-35s + armata tanks + amur subs among many other things so the best way for that in todays world is innovative use of "corporate trolling" if you know what i mean :cheers:
 
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Its almost 100th time , you are trying your best to clear the minds & hearts of a Indian ?
If it wasn't cleared 99 times before , how would it will be done now ?

I am trying to set the right perspective for Indians and Pakistanis both. We seem to have gone totally overboard on this. Over-exuberance on one side and emotion driven trolling on the other side. I may try a couple times more ... I am a pragmatist by nature.:-)
 
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One of the advantage of a Right wing Government is that matters of National Security are given a priority.

If you really think that their Wont be a reaction to a Pakistanis purchase of the Su35, then you are wrong.
India Doesn't really care about Mi35 mainly because we consider them obsolete as compared to Apaches
Su35 is a different story
If Russia sells them to pak, then it can say goodbye to the order of 127 PAKFA/FGFA

Now here's the question
Will Russia risk a 25 Billion Fighter contract for a 3 Billion Contract with Pak

Their is also an ongoing contract for 3 improved Talwar class Frigates worth 2 Billion USD and an 8 Billion Contract for SSKs where Russia is facing off against the Germans and French.
Each and every contract will be jeopardized if Russia sells Su35 to pak
 
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thats because russia wants india to buy its su-35s + armata tanks + amur subs among many other things so the best way for that in todays world is innovative use of "corporate trolling" if you know what i mean :cheers:
No thy don't want actually they are really pi$$$ed off on India since its nuclear contract to USA ?
Now Russia has the biggest investor of this world who won't even think to get a pin from USA in comming next 30 years ?
You will see , Russia will play the same game what USA played with Pakistan in 90s ?
By delaying the projects in hands with India & by increasing the prices of anything India wants to buy ?
India has become a target ?lolzz

One of the advantage of a Right wing Government is that matters of National Security are given a priority.

If you really think that their Wont be a reaction to a Pakistanis purchase of the Su35, then you are wrong.
India Doesn't really care about Mi35 mainly because we consider them obsolete as compared to Apaches
Su35 is a different story
If Russia sells them to pak, then it can say goodbye to the order of 127 PAKFA/FGFA

Now here's the question
Will Russia risk a 25 Billion Fighter contract for a 3 Billion Contract with Pak

Their is also an ongoing contract for 3 improved Talwar class Frigates worth 2 Billion USD and an 8 Billion Contract for SSKs where Russia is facing off against the Germans and French.
Each and every contract will be jeopardized if Russia sells Su35 to pak
Russia not cares 25 billions going out from its pocket but it cares Chinese hundreds of billions going back to China ?
India is not hundered miles closer to China with the money ? Right ?say yes !lolzz
 
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I am trying to set the right perspective for Indians and Pakistanis both. We seem to have gone totally overboard on this. Over-exuberance on one side and emotion driven trolling on the other side. I may try a couple times more ... I am a pragmatist by nature.:-)
Friend ,
You are just ignoring the mind set of both nations , if they had good mature more political minds , we would have spending our money on mutual beneficial projects & would have made ourselves a power by ourselves ?
 
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No thy don't want actually they are really pi$$$ed off on India since its nuclear contract to USA ?
Now Russia has the biggest investor of this world who won't even think to get a pin from USA in comming next 30 years ?
You will see , Russia will play the same game what USA played with Pakistan in 90s ?
By delaying the projects in hands with India & by increasing the prices of anything India wants to buy ?
India has become a target ?lolzz


Russia not cares 25 billions going out from its pocket but it cares Chinese hundreds of billions going back to China ?
India is not hundered miles closer to China with the money ? Right ?say yes !lolzz
well even if i agree with all the rosy pictures you want to beleve questuion is and bottom line is russia still in deals with india well over 25 billion as pre you which according to my sources are much much more .... in short whu will russia give away all that (two birds in hand are better than four in the bush) as for china russia was always selling its latest stuff to china even china was biggest buyer of flankers before india went for flankers and how does china buying wepons from russia helps pakistani cause to buy su-35s :azn:
 
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