Talks for Su-35, Mi-35 sales to Pakistan are underway: Russian Deputy FM

[Skull and Bones]

Sorry to disappoint you but Russia has offered to Pakistan...and more disappoints are coming india's way in near future

Russia had offered Mig-29s to Pakistan in the early 90s, how did that played out?

 

[IceCold]

There is no fucking comparison between the two. One is at best a 4.5th generation aircraft while the other is a true 5th generation fighter. The comparison is simply absurd. Pakistan will not go for SU-35, our best bet would be J-10 or the J-11. No chance for a Russian fighter to be a part of our inventory. The logistics would be a nightmare.

 

[!eon]

About SUs, I m also doubtful but not because of Russians, rather it's PAF. Babas will be offered something from Uncle Sam and they will run to him leaving their shoes behide. Americans have already started playing their cards.
My point is that Russians have been ignoring India's objections. Indians have habit of objections and they have been showing it every where, in France, in Sweden etc.
Then also Pakistan can use Chinese influence on Russia, if they really need something. Which is obviously far more than India.
I will rather take Russian DFM statement as credible unless an authority higher than him negates his statement. But again, procurement from PAF is highly unlikely.

The RD-93 sale owes a lot to the Chinese.
The JF-17 does not pose the same threat to India as the Su-35 will. A replacement for 3rd-gen fighters is nowhere close to what an air-superiority figther offers.


Sorry to disappoint you brother. The Lightning II was open to any country that offered benefit to the programme whether India, Japan, Canada or Turkey. The program did not need funds, but it was being developed as a Joint Fighter with input (technical and financial) from partner countries.

Wrt RD-93, please read my post above.

 

[ito]

SU 35 falling in to the hands of PAF is very slim, unless off course if Russia wants to jeopardize its defense relations with India.

Then there is FGFA that India is involved with Russia. India will go for FGFA rather than with F 35. Indian navy may opt for F 35 for its A/C.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Neither Pakistan is getting Su35's, Nor India is getting F35's

why are you bursting there new bubble of hope sirji

lol , oh dear you gave me heartfull laugh

please dont laugh at there state

 

[Fireurimagination]

Do you guys really believe Russia would jeopardise billions of dollars of business with India for selling 20 odd Su-35s to Pakistan? If Pakistan could afford them in big number (which it can't) then probably if could have been a different story. Money talks simple

 

[Knight Rider]

One Squadron of 25 Fighter Jets will be enough........


Seriously LOOK at this Beauty......

 

[PurpleButcher]

Indian Claims:-

1> Russia will jeopardize its relations with India if SU 35 deal goes through

Reply:- Yes Indians will not like it. But, rather a very big BUT, it would be impossible for INDIA to stop doing business with Russia because of the already huge percentage of Russian weapons which require spare parts, maintenance and upgrades which can be provided by none other than Russia. India has no option but to do business with Russia though with a heavy heart may be.

2> India will be pushed towards west i.e., Europe/ USA for weapons etc
Reply:- Well, India since its economy has improved has been leaning towards west and with the MMRCA fiasco it became evident to the Russians that India will opt a western based platform as compared to a Russian one ,subject to availability of a quality weapon system form the west. So Just like a good customer, India is buying the best weapons form where ever it can get. There are no loyal customers, everyone wants to get the best possible deal regardless wheteher it comes form fiji, russia, france or uncle sam. So Indians must stop acting as if after this deal we will stop purchasing Russian weapons. You already didn't opt Russia for MMRCA and same will be the case sometimes in the future also. This is not nail in the coffin scenario.

3> Wait till Modi's December visit to Russia
Reply:- Ok. We are waiting.

 

[PurpleButcher]

Indian Claims:-

1> Russia will jeopardize its relations with India if SU 35 deal goes through

Reply:- Yes Indians will not like it. But, rather a very big BUT, it would be impossible for INDIA to stop doing business with Russia because of the already huge percentage of Russian weapons which require spare parts, maintenance and upgrades which can be provided by none other than Russia. India has no option but to do business with Russia though with a heavy heart may be.

2> India will be pushed towards west i.e., Europe/ USA for weapons etc
Reply:- Well, India since its economy has improved has been leaning towards west and with the MMRCA fiasco it became evident to the Russians that India will opt a western based platform as compared to a Russian one ,subject to availability of a quality weapon system form the west. So Just like a good customer, India is buying the best weapons form where ever it can get. There are no loyal customers, everyone wants to get the best possible deal regardless wheteher it comes form fiji, russia, france or uncle sam. So Indians must stop acting as if after this deal we will stop purchasing Russian weapons. You already didn't opt Russia for MMRCA and same will be the case sometimes in the future also. This is not nail in the coffin scenario.

3> Wait till Modi's December visit to Russia
Reply:- Ok. We are waiting.

 

[nadeemkhan110]

How many Su-35 we should buy?
The total price for the 48 fighters will be US$1.58 billion, sources told the newspaper. Konstantin Makiyenko, an analyst from the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies in Moscow, said this is the largest deal between UAC and the defense ministry this year, since the air force may not purchase additional Su-30SM fighters and Su-34 tactical bombers in near future.
source:
PLA must pay double Russian Air Force's price for Su-35 fighter｜WCT

 

[SP!TF!R3]

Nor India is getting F35's

This part,I'm not so sure..INS Vishal may get F-35C.There is also speculation about F-35B which can be flown from our future LPD/Light AC..but I'm quite sure that Pakistan is not going to get or can't afford SU-35 of any significant number due to its prohibited cost as a 4++ gen aircraft.I pointed out that late batches of SU-30 MKI cost us nearly $100 mil a piece.Is Pakistan ready to spend more than that???They couldn't even buy JF-17s in good number,8 years after "Induction"..

 

[shah1398]

Perhaps more amazingly, the Russians don’t seem to grasp that their Indian allies are likely to react extremely negatively at the prospect of such a deal.

Russians are masters of diplomacy. They exactly know when and where to hit. Its not the very first time they are (i would use the word) antagonizing India but it has happened many times when India went against its interests. Like was the case when Russia called a joint naval exercise with India Navy when Russia's contender for MMRCA was shown light of the day off the MMRCA. Hence proved that there are no permanent foes or friends in IR but only interests.

 

[Fireurimagination]

Indian Claims:-

1> Russia will jeopardize its relations with India if SU 35 deal goes through

Reply:- Yes Indians will not like it. But, rather a very big BUT, it would be impossible for INDIA to stop doing business with Russia because of the already huge percentage of Russian weapons which require spare parts, maintenance and upgrades which can be provided by none other than Russia. India has no option but to do business with Russia though with a heavy heart may be.

It's not about the deals in the past, it's about the future acquisitions. Although India has started purchasing for the west and Israel but Russia still is a major supplier to Indian armed forces with joint production of hardware etc and will remain so. I don't think they would want Indian business of billions of dollars to go elsewhere

 

[PurpleButcher]

It's not about the deals in the past, it's about the future acquisitions. Although India has started purchasing for the west and Israel but Russia still is a major supplier to Indian armed forces with joint production of hardware etc and will remain so. I don't think they would want Indian business of billions of dollars to go elsewhere

You have clearly overlooked Russian point of view. Yes the Russian won't want indian business to go somewhere but it has already started migrating to Israel and west. Why should Russian not diversify its customers when Indian has already diversified its weapons suppliers?

Moreover as an Indian member pointed out in the other thread of Su 35, there are a lot of projects going on with Russia which will be completed in future such as BrahMos, PakFA etc as mentioned in the following post. Do you really think because of few dozen fighter jets India will throw away its PAK FA and other future Russian acquisitions etc. I highly doubt that this will be a proportionate response from India. Do you think India will be willing to let go off PAK FA because of SU 35?

Do you know how much these costs .. atleast $200-250 Billion dollar (equal to Pakistan's GDP), Russia don't have guts to throw them in dustbin for sake of couple of Heli and su35s


India and Russia have several major joint military programmes including:

• BrahMos cruise missile programme
• 5th generation fighter jet programme (This alone is worth of $35 billion dollar)
• Sukhoi Su-30MKI programme (230+ to be built by Hindustan Aeronautics)
• Ilyushin/HAL Tactical Transport Aircraft

Additionally, India has purchased/leased various military hardware from Russia:

• Kamov Ka-226 200 to be made in India under the Make in India initiative.
• T-90S Bhishma with over 1000 to be built in India
• Akula-II nuclear submarine (2 to be leased with an option to buy when the lease expires)
• INS Vikramaditya aircraft carrier programme
• Tu-22M3 bombers (4 ordered)
• US$900 million upgrade of MiG-29
• Mil Mi-17 (80 ordered)
• Ilyushin Il-76 Candid (6 ordered to fit Israeli Phalcon radar)
• The Farkhor Air Base in Tajikistan is currently jointly operated by Indian Air Force and Tajikistan Air Force.

 

[Fireurimagination]

You have clearly overlooked Russian point of view. Yes the Russian won't want indian business to go somewhere but it has already started migrating to Israel and west. Why should Russian not diversify its customers when Indian has already diversified its weapons suppliers?

Moreover as an Indian member pointed out in the other thread of Su 35, there are a lot of projects going on with Russia which will be completed in future such as BrahMos, PakFA etc as mentioned in the following post. Do you really think because of few dozen fighter jets India will throw away its PAK FA and other future Russian acquisitions etc. I highly doubt that this will be a proportionate response from India. Do you think India will be willing to let go off PAK FA because of SU 35?

The same question can be asked the other way around, that whether because of few dozen fighter jets Russia will throw away a market like India? Well Russia could have sold Pakistan few Migs and India would have sulked and carried on but SU35s are a different story. You assume that Russia is so pissed about the fact that India has started to buy from Israel and the West that it will sell SU35s to Pakistan to teach India a lesson.

India and Russian are still jointly developing Brahmos, PAK FA etc, Russia is leasing nuclear subs to India etc, the military hardware trade still runs in to millions if not billions of dollars, so I don't think the relations are deteriorated to that extent and if the relations are still strong then Russia will surely have to keep Indian sensitivities in mind