Superior Technology Defeated—The Battle of Maiwand

[sparten]

http://www.smallwars.quantico.usmc.mil/search/LessonsLearned/afghanistan/maiwand.asp
My Great Great Great Grand Father fought at that Battle. I tell you if the Pashtuns had lost there would never have been a nation called Pakistan.

 

[Zeeshan S.]

Nice link. Although i haven't read it totally but it looks nice. It will come handy when i am getting bored.

BTW: Are Pashtuns related to Afghan ancestry? If yes when did they come to Pakistan, what was the time? I know many people from Afghan ancestry now lets say all the people who have the name "Khan" in their last name are probably Afghani decendent, and now have been matured into Pakistanis.

 

[sparten]

Khan is a very common last name and does not donate Pashtun ancestery.
As for the Pashtuns the present division is a result of the Durent Line, and it caused large parts of Afghanistan to be annexed to British India (in theory at least, in practice it retained a de facto independence), infact most of Pakistan West of the Indus was traditionally part of Afghanistan, which itself was part of Persia till 1760.

 

[Mujahideen e Haq]

what about that battle

 

[Ahmad]

Nice link. Although i haven't read it totally but it looks nice. It will come handy when i am getting bored.

BTW: Are Pashtuns related to Afghan ancestry? If yes when did they come to Pakistan, what was the time? I know many people from Afghan ancestry now lets say all the people who have the name "Khan" in their last name are probably Afghani decendent, and now have been matured into Pakistanis.

pashtoons of pakistan havent come from afghanistan. and also it is wrong to say Khan is equal to pashtoon. if we go according to this logic, then Changiz khan was also pashtoon.

 

[Joe Shearer]

A bit of an astonishing discussion.

The title Khan is of Mongol origin, and was inherited from the Mongols by various tribes and ethnic groups, including the Uzbegs and the Pakhtun or Pashtun (depending on which pronunciation one follows). As an honorific, it has also been inherited by Indian Muslims converted from various other ethnic backgrounds. In some parts of South Asia, Khan was also given as a title to individuals not Muslim, by a local Muslim ruler.

In general, in South Asia, the title 'Khan' is a Pakhtun title.

The Pathan, or as they describe themselves, the Pashtun (south-western) or Pakhtun (north-eastern) people are a collection of tribes who occupy about two-thirds of Afghanistan, sweeping down in a wide arc to Kandahar in the west, and in the FATA and NWFP regions of Pakistan, although there are pockets of Pakhtun elsewhere as well. There are too many tribes to enumerate fully, but prominent ones include the Abdali (who were called Durrani after a compliment paid to their clan chief by the King Nadir Shah), led by their leading clans the Popalzai (of whom Karzai is the head) and within the Popalzai, the Sadozai, of which clan Ahmad Shah Abdali was a member, if I am not mistaken. King Zaheer Shah was from the rival clan which provided many rulers, the Mohammadzai sub-clan of the Barakzai branch of the Durrani. When the Popalzai Sadozai rule collapsed, this related clan took over. Both King Zaheer Shah and his cousin, who deposed him, Sardar Daoud Khan, were Barakzai Mohammedzais. It must have been a sweet moment for Karzai to take over the leadership of Afghanistan.

Incidentally, a personal hero of mine, not very popular with my Pakistani liberal friends, Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan, was a Barakzai Mohammadzai too, therefore so is his grandson in the ANP (Asfandyar Wali Khan Sahib).

Among the Pakhtun tribes most feared by the British were the Afridi, the Mohmand, the Waziris - but a full description of the situation would take several books.

Sincerely,

 

[Jazzbot]

You are not authorized to view this page

You do not have permission to view this directory or page using the credentials that you supplied.


looool

 

[Kinetic]

Khan is a very common last name and does not donate Pashtun ancestery.
As for the Pashtuns the present division is a result of the Durent Line, and it caused large parts of Afghanistan to be annexed to British India (in theory at least, in practice it retained a de facto independence), infact most of Pakistan West of the Indus was traditionally part of Afghanistan, which itself was part of Persia till 1760.

Its not Indus but Hindukush mountains was considered as border of India from ancient times and the two passes Khyber and Bolan were the entry points.

So as far as history is concerned NWFP/KP is a legitimate part of Pakistan not Afghanistan.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Its not Indus but Hindukush mountains was considered as border of India from ancient times and the two passes Khyber and Bolan were the entry points.

So as far as history is concerned NWFP/KP is a legitimate part of Pakistan not Afghanistan.

Dear Sir,

With the greatest respect, what 'Sparten' has stated is exactly correct; the NWFP/KP portion became the boundary line only since 1893, when Henry Durand signed an agreement with the Emir of Afghanistan defining the Durand line as the boundary.

Prior to that date, Afghanistan existed with a fluid frontier, which sometimes included the Punjab and beyond, right up to the Ganges-Yamuna Doab, and sometimes shrank, for instance in the face of the expansion of the Lahore Durbar and its outstanding general, Hari Singh Nalwa.

The Hindu Kush being a natural boundary is due to a habit of thinking loosely of 'India' as being bounded by the peaks on the north and the west; unfortunately for this sloppy habit, the trans-Indus territories were at least as often (I am being polite) under the rule of the ruling power in what we call Afghanistan today, as under any other rule this side of the mountains.

If I may be permitted to remind readers, these trans-montane rulers of the trans-Indus sections include the Achaemenids, the Alexandrian (Macedonian) Greeks, the Bactrian Greeks, the Saka (Scythians), the Parthians, the Kushanas, the Ephthalite Huns, then after a gap during the Gupta Empire, the Hindu-Shahi/Turk-Shahi kingdom (ruling both sides of the mountains), the Ghaznavids, the Ghorids, again a gap during the Delhi Sultanate, or parts of it, the Mongols (specifically the Il-Khanate), and finally the Afshar and Abdali Empires. Against that, we have the Maurya Empire, the Delhi Sultanate and the Mughal Empire, and Lahore under Ranjit Singh pushing the frontier back. This is not intended to be an accurate or comprehensive list.

It would be interesting to know under these circumstances what makes the Hindu Kush to be considered the natural boundary of 'India', and by whom. Natural obstacle, yes; passages in a natural obstacle, yes; 'deemed' boundaries, a somewhat over-extended definition.

Today, no doubt, NWFP/KP is very much a part of Pakistan.

Sincerely,