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Stealthy Robots Stalk The T-50

SBD-3

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September 14, 2010: The Russian answer to the American F-22, the T-50, first flew earlier this year, and has made 18 flights so far this year. The T-50 is a prototype, and the Russians are still doing a lot of tinkering. While the T-50 is the stealthiest aircraft the Russians have, it is not nearly as stealthy as the F-22, or even the F-35 or B-2. The Russians are apparently going to emphasize maneuverability instead of stealth. But they are having problem perfecting the engines for the T-50, and the defensive electronics. This puts the T-50 at a big disadvantage against the F-22 or F-35, which try to detect enemy aircraft at long distance, without being spotted, and then fire a radar guided missile (like AMRAAM).

The T-50 is not an entirely new design, like the F-22. The T-50 was developed from the Su-27, which it is to eventually replace. As part of this process, another development aircraft, the Su-35, was created. This aircraft first flew two years ago. The Su-35 contains a lot of the technologies that are going into the T-50. It was three years ago that, the Russian Air Force showed off the first of two flyable prototypes of the Su-35. It was less than four years ago, that Russia announced its long promised Su-35 fighter, was back in development again. The Su-35 is an enhanced Su-30 (itself a development of the Cold War era Su-27), and has been in development for over a decade. At one point, it was called the Su-37, but the name was changed back to Su-35. A dozen or more Su-35 prototypes have been built, and apparently no two are identical. This is typical for Russian aircraft development. They prefer to produce many incremental improvements, rather than make a huge jump to a very different new model. Thus you can trace an evolution from the Su-27 to the T-50.

The Russians want to sell their "Fifth Generation Fighter" (the T-50, which they admit is not true 5th Gen) to China, India and other foreign customers. There is already a deal for India to develop its own version of the T-50, while contributing some technologies (like lightweight materials) to the basic design. The Indians have announced that their version of the T-50 will be a two seater with longer range than the single seat Russian model. Russia now has the billions of dollars it will take to carry out the T-50 development program. India has become a partner, contributing cash, technology and manufacturing capability.

The T-50 is a 34 ton fighter that is more maneuverable than the 33 ton, Su-27, has much better electronics and is stealthy. It can cruise at above the speed of sound. It also costs at least fifty percent more than the Su-27. That would be some $60 million (for a barebones model, at least 50 percent more with all the options), about what a top-of-the-line F-16 costs. The Su-27 was originally developed to match the F-15, which is larger than the single engine F-16.

Russia is promising a fighter with a life of 6,000 flight hours, and engines good for 4,000 hours. Russia promises world-class avionics, plus a very pilot-friendly cockpit. The use of many thrusters and fly-by-wire will produce an aircraft even more maneuverable than earlier Su-30s (which have been extremely agile).

The T-50 is not meant to be a direct rival for the F-22, because the Russian aircraft is not as stealthy. But if the maneuverability and advanced electronics live up to the promises, the aircraft would be more than a match for every fighter out there except the F-22. If such an T-50 was sold for well under $100 million each, there would be a lot of buyers. Russia says it will begin production, and sales, in five years. That may be too ambitious, but for the moment, the T-50 is the only potential competitor for the F-22 in development. But, as with the F-22, development expenses are increasing, and it looks like the T-50 will cost at least $120 each (including a share of the development cost), but only if 500 or more are manufactured. Only 182 F-22s were built because of the high cost. American developers are now seeking to apply their stealth, and other, technologies, to the development of combat UAVs. Thus by the time the T-50 enters service, in 5-10 years, it may already be made obsolete by cheaper, unmanned, stealthy fighters.
 
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American developers are now seeking to apply their stealth, and other, technologies, to the development of combat UAVs. Thus by the time the T-50 enters service, in 5-10 years, it may already be made obsolete by cheaper, unmanned, stealthy fighters.

And so would be the F22 and the F35. UCAVs would make everything obsolete .. not just the T50. Surely you can see that...

:coffee:
 
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And so would be the F22 and the F35. UCAVs would make everything obsolete .. not just the T50. Surely you can see that...

:coffee:

yes indeed.....but Yankees are very smart....just as Russians think that they have got them....Yankees will be upgrading Raptors....The Raptor line will stay operational for upgrading and maintainance and in extreme need, new assembly:coffee:
 
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Furthermore, Stealthy UCAVs will be an ideal option for countries looking at more economical solution will lesser worries about long range strikes (which actually ACs are for) so as many small countries have their adversaries next door. They will be more tempted towards UCAVs rather than stealth fighters.....
 
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satelite jamming and probably satellite busting will be the norm if UAVs take over the skies.
Without remote control via satellite,UAVs will be headless chicken.
 
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satelite jamming and probably satellite busting will be the norm if UAVs take over the skies.
Without remote control via satellite,UAVs will be headless chicken.

The same thing applies to 5th gens as they are highly network centric machines so they would be able to fly as they ll have a pilot in them but blinded and left on their own
 
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arrrr

no guys, you got things a bit wrong.

The F22 line is officially closed. Equipment and tooling will be stored for potential future use, but that is it.

No official upgrade program for the F22 has seen the light of day so far.

UCAVs if ever take to the sky are the same for everyone.

You don't need satelites for UCAVs .. not the generations you are talking about anyway..
 
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arrrr

no guys, you got things a bit wrong.

The F22 line is officially closed. Equipment and tooling will be stored for potential future use, but that is it.

No official upgrade program for the F22 has seen the light of day so far.

UCAVs if ever take to the sky are the same for everyone.

You don't need satelites for UCAVs .. not the generations you are talking about anyway..

and the same equipment and tooling may be assembled into new F-22s when needed.....189 is a very thin line....here is an extract about future expected upgrades of Raptor
Current planning envisages the introduction of the GBU-39/40 Small Diameter Bomb in the Block 20 aircraft by 2007, together with high resolution SAR radar modes, improved radar ECCM, two way voice and data MIDS/Link-16 capability, improved crew station software, and improved electronic countermeasures.
The Block 20 configuration is the baseline for the Global Strike Task Force (GSTF) fleet, and will include JSF common radar modules, a dedicated high-speed radar processor, and COTS technology CIP processors. The Block 30 configuration, planned for 2008-2011,
extends the growth seen in the Block 20. Side-looking radar arrays are envisaged to provide a significant ISR capability in the aircraft along with enhancements to provide full air defence suppression (Wild Weasel) and time-critical target engagement capabilities. A Satcom
terminal will be added to provide continuous network connectivity during deep-strike profiles. The post-2011 Block 40 aircraft is intended to be the definitive Global Strike configuration, including
incremental enhancements to Block 30 additions, to provide full sensor networking, range enhancements, highly integrated ISR capabilities, and a Helmet Mounted Display similar to the JSF. Longer term planning for post Block 40 envisages an Electronic Attack variant, essentially replacing the lost EF-111A Raven. A stealthy stores pod for JDAM and SDB is also in development to enable carriage on external pylons. As a strike aircraft the F/A-22A will have similar internal payloads to the JSF, but will be vastly more survivable
due to better stealth to evade air defence missile batteries, plus better speed/altitude performance, more defensive internally carried air-air missiles and the ability to kill opposing fighters with no difficulty. The spiral development program for strike capabilities is
incremental, and primarily involves software and integration of networking equipment and new weapons. As a result, it is an affordable proposition. The Block 20 enhancements were covered within the original 2004 production budget.
Concurrent with F/A-22A evolution, the FB-22A is being explored as a parallel strike platform for the US Air Force. The most recent reports indicate that the configuration of the FB-22A has shifted from a pure delta design, to a configuration similar to the F/A-22A with an enlarged wing, enlarged weapon bays, and stretched forward fuselage accommodating a second crew station. The F119-PW-100 engine would be enhanced to permit long-duration supercruise on
deep-strike profiles, with specific optimisations in a number of areas for this purpose.
U.S. Air Force AIM Points: F/A-22 Raptor - Stealth, supercruise, firepower
 
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and the same equipment and tooling may be assembled into new F-22s when needed.....189 is a very thin line....here is an extract about future expected upgrades of Raptor

These are not upgrade programmes, these are "possibilities".

Also the fact that the "assembly line" can again be formed, if ever, does not mean the plane can be restarted... there is a bunch of subcontractors who will have moved on to different production sinde the end.

:coffee:
 
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These are not upgrade programmes, these are "possibilities".

Also the fact that the "assembly line" can again be formed, if ever, does not mean the plane can be restarted... there is a bunch of subcontractors who will have moved on to different production sinde the end.

:coffee:
but how much of them will move?.....JSF is almost similar interms of tech and structure....US will be able to keep these subcontractors alive by assigning JSF to them....LMCO will certainly not produce JSF completely as the case with F-22.....Foriegners, well they wont get anything estonishing in the plane by themselves as US will certainly resist to this
 
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but how much of them will move?.....JSF is almost similar interms of tech and structure....US will be able to keep these subcontractors alive by assigning JSF to them....LMCO will certainly not produce JSF completely as the case with F-22.....Foriegners, well they wont get anything estonishing in the plane by themselves as US will certainly resist to this

Actually if my understanding is correct, most of the subcontractors have already moved on to different things, as the vast majority of the parts required to assemble an F22 have already been produced and have been stored for some years now waiting assembly.
It's called "long storage" or something ... not sure what the term is.

Bottom line, it is very doubtful right now that the F22 production line will be able to be restarted easlily and timely if needed.

Now an upgrade programme is different, but as I said, none have emerged as real so far.

:coffee:
 
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arrrr

no guys, you got things a bit wrong.

The F22 line is officially closed. Equipment and tooling will be stored for potential future use, but that is it.

No official upgrade program for the F22 has seen the light of day so far.

UCAVs if ever take to the sky are the same for everyone.

You don't need satelites for UCAVs .. not the generations you are talking about anyway..

Currently there is no funding for more then 183 aircraft. However the production line won't be finished building the 183rd aircraft till sometime in 2011. After that the production equipment is being mothballed and stored so that it can be used at a future date if needed. So if The U.S. sees a need to build more it can. Also any upgrading will be mainly with the avionics, software, and radar. They don't need to be at the Lockheed Martin plant for that.

Behind the scenes there is still pressure being applied to allow for an export version. However even though several key senators have come out in support of this. The political realities are for now that's not going to happen. Other political items are going to be taking up the debates for quite a while.
 
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Currently there is no funding for more then 183 aircraft. However the production line won't be finished building the 183rd aircraft till sometime in 2011. After that the production equipment is being mothballed and stored so that it can be used at a future date if needed. So if The U.S. sees a need to build more it can. Also any upgrading will be mainly with the avionics, software, and radar. They don't need to be at the Lockheed Martin plant for that.

Behind the scenes there is still pressure being applied to allow for an export version. However even though several key senators have come out in support of this. The political realities are for now that's not going to happen. Other political items are going to be taking up the debates for quite a while.

read my previous post.

:coffee:
 
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Actually if my understanding is correct, most of the subcontractors have already moved on to different things, as the vast majority of the parts required to assemble an F22 have already been produced and have been stored for some years now waiting assembly.
It's called "long storage" or something ... not sure what the term is.

Bottom line, it is very doubtful right now that the F22 production line will be able to be restarted easlily and timely if needed.

Now an upgrade programme is different, but as I said, none have emerged as real so far.

:coffee:
The B-1 was canceled and resurrected within a few years.
 
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