South Korea and Russia competing for Indian Army's VSHORAD tender

[mkb95]

It's Once again the South Koreans and Russians competing to Supply mobile VSHROAD systems to Indian Army, Recently India selected the South Korean K9 Howitzer who defeated the Russian Msta-S in Evaluation and Field Trails. It's once again the South Korean competing against the Russians for a multi billion dollar air defense missile deal, Indian Army currently operates the Sterla Mobile VSHORAD's which is not a good platform in current battlefield due to lack of High altitude engagements.
Here under the new tender Army needs a mobile system equipped with cannons and air defense missiles, Older Sterla having four surface to air missiles with low engagement rate, Sterla can bring down targets flying upto some 11,000 feet altitude only, Nowadays Helicopters can fly even higher than the Sterla engagement altitude, So army needs a new system which is much advanced systems for higher attitude engagement. Here the Russian Sosna R first competed, Later the South Korean Bi Ho also entered in the race. Where both are on final run to seize the Tender.
Sosna R


The Sosna R is high performing low cost short range mobile defense system, Which can perform fire on the move too, The System equipped with two six barreled 30mm cannon and another twelve ready to fire missiles. The maximum target interception altitude for the Sosna R's missile is some 15,000 feet, Which is a major disadvantage since MANPAD missile's like American stinger and European starstreak has engagement range upto some 25,000 feet. Which is good enough for engaging high flying targets.
Actually the Fighter jets can normally cruise at the altitude of some 35,000 or above. They also drop air to ground munitions and fire missile even at the same altitude, To intercept those high flying air crafts ground forces need most sophisticated systems. Indian Army is poorly equipped when dealing with such threats. Army's Igla and other missiles are decade old and poor engagement rate.
Sosna R is completely new system same like the Pantsir S1 systems, Which is based on the older Khasthan and evolved Palma system. The Sosna R is still in trails and yet to be delivered to the Russian ground forces.
The Sosna R work as a Stand alone system as well as can be integrated into network systems. The Sosna R comes with a Electro Optics and Radar system for effective surveillance and guidance. Sonsa system uses upgraded version of sterla missiles for target management. Which is a Infrared Guided missile. Most of the IR guided missile comes with fire and forget capability. Allows multiple target engagement simultaneously.




The six barreled twin 30mm Gun in the Sosna provide additional fire support for better engagement against low flying targets. The cannons can engage targets upto 3000 feet height. Which allows to destroy low flying cruise missiles and low flying other targets like UAV and Observation Helicopters.
Same like others, The Sosna R also lacks range, It can engage targets upto some 12,000 to 15,000 feet only. Which is not a good range for future battlefield scenario's, Since enemy fighters and helicopters can easily evade the system by flying above the engagement rate.The Target engagement range of the Missile is some ten kilometers.
Hybrid Bi Ho


The Hybrid Bi Ho is the South Korean system comes with single barrel twin 30mm cannon and two twin launched surface to air missiles. The Biho uses the south Korean Chiron man portable surface to air missile for target engagement. Same like Sterla the Chiron too limited upto some 12,000 to 15,000. A
s said above missile have low altitude engagement rate is not a viable solution for future battle planning.
The Biho comes with better surveillance and tracking system. same like Sosna, the Biho too work as a stand alone system and can be interconnected to air defense network. The Electro Optornic system and the Radar makes the system more reliable. The Biho have little enhanced target tracking system compared to Sosna.
Almost all of the VSHORAD designed to perform missions in low altitude, When comparing both of the system are better, however the Sosna Leads with the multiple number of Missiles and cannon. while Biho leads in sensor and EO Systems.
The Chiron also a fire and forget IR guided missile same like Sterla, Both are smarter enough to evade the countermeasure systems dispensed from the Fighter jets.
Conclusion

It's better Indian Army may reject both of the contender, due to the altitude limitation. Better scrap it and go for some other system having interception altitude of more than 25,000 feet. The Indian Trishul project based on French MICA missile is better for that, However the system doesn't have onboard cannon. However a 30 mm cannon won't make wonders in future battlefields. While one must understand about the importance of CIWS in warship.
source- Life of Soldiers: South Korea and Russia competing for Indian Army's VSHORAD tender

 

[Ankit Kumar]

If VSHORAD is about this......
Then what are the talks of competition between US, France and Russia to supply us with Stingers, Misterls and Igla S about?

 

[Beast]

Why Indian army never consider Tor-M1?

 

[Zarvan]

Why Indian army never consider Tor-M1?

Yes don't know why. Well but I think Pakistan is considering it

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Why Indian army never consider Tor-M1?

Sir, it depends upon Russia, what they offer in reply to the RFI.

 

[Beast]

Sir, it depends upon Russia, what they offer in reply to the RFI.

If Russian can sell to China, I am sure India can get it too. But Russian export monkey version and we Chinese upgrade it to HQ-17 which uses more modern radar and system. But still the Tor-M1 is a deadly system and a gunship, low attitude warplane killer.

 

[Basel]

Sir, it depends upon Russia, what they offer in reply to the RFI.

But they offered it to Pakistan, why not India?? Is it not good??

 

[Ankit Kumar]

ARMY VSHORAD TENDER


French UN peacekeepers with Mistral

After years of evaluation the Army is all set to award the tender for VSHORAD systems valued at around $ 1 billion. VSHORAD( Very Short Range Air Defence ) system is basically an air defence system with a canister launchable missile system that is mounted on a stable platform. VSHORAD contains of a long range twin tubes equipped with ECCM suites. The VSHORAD is a Long awaited tender for which the army has completed an extensive battery of field trails and a final report drafted.

The tests included putting the system to use under extreme climatic conditions, Coastal environmental Trails, High altitude Trails each of these trails proving the capabalities of the system.

After extensive initial trails only three contenders of the five contenders remain in the race to supply the system Indian Army. Chiron and Starstrak were knocked out afer the initial evaluation.French Mistral, Swedish SAAB RBS 70NG and the Russian new generation Igla-S continue to be in extensive trials before the final contract is awarded. The VSHORADS requirements will be largely met by a local manufacturing line, and a mandatory offsets requirement will apply.

The deal comprises supplying of a total of one thousand launchers along with six thousands missiles and support systems and training systems, also here the Mistral and Igla S uses the IR based homing for target lock while only the SAAB RBS 70 uses the Laser based homing for target lock, while compared to IR homing the Laser homing have disadvantages like Most of the Fighter jets have RWR (Radar warning Receivers ) and MAWS sensors which can easily alert the pilot if the aircraft has been lased by
any laser lights and can alert the pilot to put in use the counter measures. VSHORAD have a very short range which is about 10 or less kilometers. Battlefield is a chaos filled area and the ability of laser guidance missile to find or lock on to targets is greatly compromised under various circumstances. Saab’s RBS-70 NG is a beam ridden system with a Hard 3D short range radar attached to it alongside a C2 system and battery commander terminal. It fires within an 8km range at an altitude of 5km, which very well exceeds the Indian requirements.

Back in the end of 2013, the US offered it's stinger missiles under Foreign Military sales, but which but failed to pass the stringent standards set by the Indian Army Evaluation team.
Igla-S



Twin tube Igla-S VSHORAD

As of now the Indian Army uses the Igla-S the Russian MANPAD which is a battle proven system under the Indian condition earlier our MANPAD crew shot downed two Pakistani helicopters using the Igla-S. Igla is a cheap, easy to maintain and use system. It's a highly portable, very effective system compared to other contenders. During the trails in summer 2012 Igla failed to hit the targets where it shot down only one out of four targets, during the sea trails the system failed produce any impressive results, in the high altitude tests the Igla's failed to intercept any target.

The Igla S can engage targets at the Altitude upto 20000 feet, where as it's operation range remains classified.

MBDA Mistral



Twin Tube Mistral Launcher


Mistral is the latest generation Fire and Forget missile, It's a man portable, fully digital heat seeking missile. The Mistral has a 97% of kill probability compared to other systems in the range of low level air defence. The missile is having high kill probability as well as can maneuver upto 30 G , which can hit highly maneuverable Combat Jets and Helicopters. The system can be used in all rough weather conditions and be put to use under any condition. MBDA can also be deployed under stand alone mode.


SAAB RBS 70 NG


SAAB RBS 70 NG, surveillance radar in the foreground

The SAAB offered the RBS 70 next generation variant which is claimed to be unjammable. It uses the Laser beam for Target acquire and Lock function. During the SAAB evaluation in Sweden which exhibited to seventeen country's defence officials the system scored a hundred percent kill probability. Unlike the IR guided missiles which are easily jammable, the RBS 70 uses the Laser beam riding which can't be jammed in open area's. The RBS 70 NG range is classified but according reliable sources the missile can engage a target up to 8 kilometers away flying at an altitude of 16000 feet . Unlike other systems the RBS 70 needs a surveillance radar where three to five stations can operate under one Radar.

The RBS 70 NG can be used in any tough conditions, the system will work under stand alone mode too according to SAAB reports.




@Major Shaitan Singh Sir please clear the doubts.
1. VSHORAD Tender is for what ?
2. What are the required specifications?

Thanks

But they off it to Pakistan, why not India?? Is it not good??

Sir
May be it did not fulfilled the Army's VSHORAD requirements. It may be too costly for this role.

 

[Gen Padmanabhan]

If Russian can sell to China, I am sure India can get it too. But Russian export monkey version and we Chinese upgrade it to HQ-17 which uses more modern radar and system. But still the Tor-M1 is a deadly system and a gunship, low attitude warplane killer.

Because there are already plans to induct Barak-8 by IAF.

If VSHORAD is about this......
Then what are the talks of competition between US, France and Russia to supply us with Stingers, Misterls and Igla S about?

Mobile VSHORAD, that can move with IBGs.

 

[Echo_419]

If Russian can sell to China, I am sure India can get it too. But Russian export monkey version and we Chinese upgrade it to HQ-17 which uses more modern radar and system. But still the Tor-M1 is a deadly system and a gunship, low attitude warplane killer.

I think they offered the best they can in answer for our RFI,also this system looks more mobile than Tor.The days of selling monkey versions are gone, the Russians know that India is the last remaining major weapons customer for Russia,pissing us of is not the best thing to do.

 

[nik141993]

Why not pantsir s1, it is better than both of them @Abingdonboy

 

[desimorty]

If Russian can sell to China, I am sure India can get it too. But Russian export monkey version and we Chinese upgrade it to HQ-17 which uses more modern radar and system. But still the Tor-M1 is a deadly system and a gunship, low attitude warplane killer.

Source: South Korea and Russia competing for Indian Army's VSHORAD tender

Your an idoit. The Tor M1 or whatever PLA wants to call it is not a VSHORAD. Minimum range is horrible. Its got a lot of deployment issues. India has other offers as well and the technology is NOT critical or strategic.
These are more or less manpads that the IA is looking for. Tor-M1 is not a manpad.

Why not pantsir s1, it is better than both of them @@Abingdonboy

Source: South Korea and Russia competing for Indian Army's VSHORAD tender

Again read above post.

 

[Major Shaitan Singh]

Thank for Taging me

Russia confident of Igla in VSHORAD contest

Russia’s Rosoboronexport is pitching the Igla-S system in the contest for the Indian Army tender for a Very Short Range Air Defense System (VSHORAD). And they’re confident of their chances against Saab’s RBS 70 NG and MBDA’s Mistral systems, besides the LIG Nex1 Chiron and the Thales Star Streak, which had also been invited to offer information on their system.

The Russian VSHORAD system is based on the Igla MANPADS (Man Portable Air Defense System) and the Strelets control system. Heat seeking, Russian officials say the launcher can fire two missiles simultaneously, which is uncommon, as otherwise the missiles would end up targeting each other.


French UN peacekeepers with Mistral

After years of evaluation the Army is all set to award the tender for VSHORAD systems valued at around $ 1 billion. VSHORAD( Very Short Range Air Defence ) system is basically an air defence system with a canister launchable missile system that is mounted on a stable platform. VSHORAD contains of a long range twin tubes equipped with ECCM suites. The VSHORAD is a Long awaited tender for which the army has completed an extensive battery of field trails and a final report drafted.

The tests included putting the system to use under extreme climatic conditions, Coastal environmental Trails, High altitude Trails each of these trails proving the capabalities of the system.

After extensive initial trails only three contenders of the five contenders remain in the race to supply the system Indian Army. Chiron and Starstrak were knocked out afer the initial evaluation.French Mistral, Swedish SAAB RBS 70NG and the Russian new generation Igla-S continue to be in extensive trials before the final contract is awarded. The VSHORADS requirements will be largely met by a local manufacturing line, and a mandatory offsets requirement will apply.

The deal comprises supplying of a total of one thousand launchers along with six thousands missiles and support systems and training systems, also here the Mistral and Igla S uses the IR based homing for target lock while only the SAAB RBS 70 uses the Laser based homing for target lock, while compared to IR homing the Laser homing have disadvantages like Most of the Fighter jets have RWR (Radar warning Receivers ) and MAWS sensors which can easily alert the pilot if the aircraft has been lased by
any laser lights and can alert the pilot to put in use the counter measures. VSHORAD have a very short range which is about 10 or less kilometers. Battlefield is a chaos filled area and the ability of laser guidance missile to find or lock on to targets is greatly compromised under various circumstances. Saab’s RBS-70 NG is a beam ridden system with a Hard 3D short range radar attached to it alongside a C2 system and battery commander terminal. It fires within an 8km range at an altitude of 5km, which very well exceeds the Indian requirements.

Back in the end of 2013, the US offered it's stinger missiles under Foreign Military sales, but which but failed to pass the stringent standards set by the Indian Army Evaluation team.
Igla-S



Twin tube Igla-S VSHORAD

As of now the Indian Army uses the Igla-S the Russian MANPAD which is a battle proven system under the Indian condition earlier our MANPAD crew shot downed two Pakistani helicopters using the Igla-S. Igla is a cheap, easy to maintain and use system. It's a highly portable, very effective system compared to other contenders. During the trails in summer 2012 Igla failed to hit the targets where it shot down only one out of four targets, during the sea trails the system failed produce any impressive results, in the high altitude tests the Igla's failed to intercept any target.

The Igla S can engage targets at the Altitude upto 20000 feet, where as it's operation range remains classified.

MBDA Mistral



Twin Tube Mistral Launcher


Mistral is the latest generation Fire and Forget missile, It's a man portable, fully digital heat seeking missile. The Mistral has a 97% of kill probability compared to other systems in the range of low level air defence. The missile is having high kill probability as well as can maneuver upto 30 G , which can hit highly maneuverable Combat Jets and Helicopters. The system can be used in all rough weather conditions and be put to use under any condition. MBDA can also be deployed under stand alone mode.


SAAB RBS 70 NG


SAAB RBS 70 NG, surveillance radar in the foreground

The SAAB offered the RBS 70 next generation variant which is claimed to be unjammable. It uses the Laser beam for Target acquire and Lock function. During the SAAB evaluation in Sweden which exhibited to seventeen country's defence officials the system scored a hundred percent kill probability. Unlike the IR guided missiles which are easily jammable, the RBS 70 uses the Laser beam riding which can't be jammed in open area's. The RBS 70 NG range is classified but according reliable sources the missile can engage a target up to 8 kilometers away flying at an altitude of 16000 feet . Unlike other systems the RBS 70 needs a surveillance radar where three to five stations can operate under one Radar.

The RBS 70 NG can be used in any tough conditions, the system will work under stand alone mode too according to SAAB reports.

Currently what are your partnerships for the Indian companies for the VSHORAD and SRSAM programmes?
We have several partnerships for these programmes. We have teamed with different companies to do the production in India. I would not want to disclose the names of these companies since all these are part of the offset proposals. But, of course, we are in talks with the defence public sector companies like Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL) as they are currently taking care of these programmes.

How is your VSHORAD programme advancing at this point of time?
For the VSHORAD programme, the fully-integrated RBS 70 NG, with day and night firing capabilities, has on-going trials in India. This programme is a combined programme for Indian Army, Air Force and the Navy. Indian Army is, of course, the lead customer in the trials. We have been doing trials in various places - we have been at the coast, in the desert, and we are now at the high altitude.

What are the current timelines for the VSHORAD trials?
The trials will continue until this summer. It’s been more than one year. We have been in the trials since May 2012.

You seem to have generated a lot of interest for the RBS 70NG at the Aero India, particularly from the Indian Air Force. Can you give us a brief account into that?
During Aero India we had visitors from both army and air force and we have seen a wide interest for the RBS 70 NG. I agree that the air force is much interested in this because it is an unjammable system. We are one of the three companies which are in the competition and, of course, we hope to win the contract.

How do you think you are going to emerge in the competition for the VSHORAD programme?
It is hard to say at this stage. I think the important difference with India and some other countries is that the trials here are very long in time. This trial for RBS 70 NG and GIRAFFE will take more than a year with people and equipment from our company in India.

 

[nik22]

Your an idoit. The Tor M1 or whatever PLA wants to call it is not a VSHORAD. Minimum range is horrible. Its got a lot of deployment issues. India has other offers as well and the technology is NOT critical or strategic.
These are more or less manpads that the IA is looking for. Tor-M1 is not a manpad.


Again read above post.

Well, you may be a real Jatt or Jat. I know their blood boils easily. But be nice

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Koreans are working with TATA to offer their product.