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Something about kashmir war

Shamain

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Guys ihave to ask something abt the tribals who had fought alongside pak army to free kashmir and jammu in 48. Who were those tribals? To be honest several times on the forums and even recently in some thread it happened that some indian said that it were those afghani tribals who had fought along our forces.

So well how on earth we got afghani tribes?? It is pre 70s era. Or is it again indians peddling outright lies everywhere to say whatever suits their narratives ?
Who were those tribals? Where did they come from?
 
they were tribal or pathans of NWFP and FATA and this is what problem start when we use non state actors first time in our history
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Mercenaries, who had nothing to do with Kashmir in the first place.
 
non state actors means civilians in conflict or disputes mam .
Nahi non state actors is used in a diff sense from what i know.they are the civilians who challenge the state's authority,acha iwill recheck the broader meaning of it.

But idont see anything wrong with it , civilians of any country can assist their army in event of a conflict ,how shud it be taken as unethical.?

Mercenaries, who had nothing to do with Kashmir in the first place.
oh just shut it and dont troll here. Just cut it out u indians.
They werent mercenaries, they were pakistan's civilians. Unlike india who uses ttp mercenries in afganistan.
 
Mercenaries, who had nothing to do with Kashmir in the first place.

I'll take a leaf out of Indian arguments and point out that lakhs of Kashmiris were fleeing Kashmir into Pakistan and settled in Northern Areas. The lashkars involved definitely had a right to intervene after being directly affected by what was going on in Kashmir.
 
oh just shut it and dont troll here. Just cut it out u indians.
They werent mercenaries, they were pakistan's civilians. Unlike india who uses ttp mercenries in afganistan.

:) A very good morning to you too..Now that all my plans for trekking is cancelled due to the rains and mudslides, and all of a sudden my Saturday starts looking dark and gloomy and lazy, we have time to take a walk down the memory, visit a few chapters of history, perhaps with a cup of tea..
I'll go make that tea now..and then build upon this. :)
 
I'll take a leaf out of Indian arguments and point out that lakhs of Kashmiris were fleeing Kashmir into Pakistan and settled in Northern Areas. The lashkars involved definitely had a right to intervene after being directly affected by what was going on in Kashmir.
They had full right to intervene ,they were Pakistani citizens? Werent they?? Then why cant they?
 
They had full right to intervene ,they were Pakistani citizens? Werent they?? Then why cant they?
Pakistanis invading a princely state which has signed instrument of accession with India..Thus official beginning of using non-state actors to wage war against neighbors.
 
But then why indians write afghans everywhere????



Imran bahi they fata and nwfp people were pakistanis how did they become non state actors?

whats the big difference?

pashtun is pashtun.

Nahi non state actors is used in a diff sense from what i know.they are the civilians who challenge the state's authority,acha iwill recheck the broader meaning of it.

But idont see anything wrong with it , civilians of any country can assist their army in event of a conflict ,how shud it be taken as unethical.?

oh just shut it and dont troll here. Just cut it out u indians.
They werent mercenaries, they were pakistan's civilians. Unlike india who uses ttp mercenries in afganistan.

Since when did FATA came under J&K?

When Pakistani civillians raid Kashmir,it is called Hamla.

They had full right to intervene ,they were Pakistani citizens? Werent they?? Then why cant they?

It was happening everywhere,Hindus & Sikhs were also fleeing Sialkot/Jhelum & NWFP too.
 
Guys ihave to ask something abt the tribals who had fought alongside pak army to free kashmir and jammu in 48. Who were those tribals? To be honest several times on the forums and even recently in some thread it happened that some indian said that it were those afghani tribals who had fought along our forces.

So well how on earth we got afghani tribes?? It is pre 70s era. Or is it again indians peddling outright lies everywhere to say whatever suits their narratives ?
Who were those tribals? Where did they come from?
Let me clear
First Kashmir war(1947-1949) was started by ex british army officers and jawans belongs to independent state Poonch. After rebellion and liberation of poonch, on request of sardar Ibrahim khan Quaid e azam allowed Masood and wazir tribe belongs to Tribal ares to fight for Srinagar.
For your information i will point out major information.
1. Rebellion by Poonch was indigenous movement and fought by Azad Kashmir Regular Forces. ( Now on Azad Kashmir Regiment)
2. Masood and wazir tribes were deployed on different areas much closer to Pakistan Army.
3. Ex british army officers are jawans involved in First Kashmir war 1947 were ww1 and ww2 veterans. They recruited youngsters and trained them for rebellion known as poonch rebellion.
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Nahi non state actors is used in a diff sense from what i know.they are the civilians who challenge the state's authority,acha iwill recheck the broader meaning of it.

But idont see anything wrong with it , civilians of any country can assist their army in event of a conflict ,how shud it be taken as unethical.?

oh just shut it and dont troll here. Just cut it out u indians.
They werent mercenaries, they were pakistan's civilians. Unlike india who uses ttp mercenries in afganistan.

I'll take a leaf out of Indian arguments and point out that lakhs of Kashmiris were fleeing Kashmir into Pakistan and settled in Northern Areas. The lashkars involved definitely had a right to intervene after being directly affected by what was going on in Kashmir.

When Clement Attlee's Labour party came to power in war devastated Britain in 1945, he accelerated the process of end of British rule in India. Subsequently in June 1947, the Government of India Act, 1947 was promulgated, calling for creation of two independent nations, India and Pakistan, one secular and the other for religion. Now there were two kinds of territories, those under direct British rule and more than 560 princely states, under the rule of Indian princes, comprising of 41 % of total landmass. Sizes varied from as big as France, as for example Hyderabad and Kashmir to as small as a village.

Now, the princes of those bigger states were in no hurry to join India or Pakistan, for that matter most of them chose to stay independent, while the British tried to pursue them to join any dominion. As for example Hyderabad and Kashmir, while the Nawab of Junagadh decided to flee to Pakistan, leaving behind his state matters to his court official.

The most challenging of them all was of course, Kashmir, divided mainly into four parts, the Hindu majority Jammu bordering Punjab, Kashmir valley with Muslim majority, the valley of Ladakh populated largely by the Buddhists and the territories of Gilgit and Baltistan to the west. The last region was also populated by the Muslims, but they were mainly Ismailis, rather than Sunni Muslims, a sect that was declared to be non-Muslim by Pakistan.

Kashmir's rule at that time was Maharaja Hari Singh, who literally loathed the Congress party in general and Nehru in particular, mainly because he feared the land-reforms that Nehru had plans for. Mountbatten had suggested the Maharaja, not to act in haste. While the Maharaja's indecisiveness irked the Indian leaders, his own decisions made the situation far more complex than it already was.
After World War 2, around 60,000 veterans from Poonch only to find they were no longer subjects of Maharaja of Poonch but rather the Maharaja of Kashmir, who imposed high taxes upon them. These war veterans, who were largely Muslims, and all worked up by the recent spurt of communal violence in Punjab, held a public rally in August 1947, and demanded to join Pakistan.The Maharaja dispatched his dogra troops who irresponsibly opened fire in a rather peaceful rally. As a result, some of them went into hiding and some fled to Pakistan; one among them was Sardar Mohammad Ibrahim Khan, lawyer by profession and member of state assembly. He met Colonel Akbar Khan of Pakistani Army and sought help to liberate Kashmir by force. Till this time, both Indian and Pakistani government were in indecisive state.
An enthusiastic Khan, who was the director of weapons and equipment at General Headquarters in Rawalpindi, decided to take the matters in his own hands and not inform Pakistani army chief British General Sir Frank Messervy because Messervy may have communicated that to the Indian Army Chief. Perhaps the Pakistani Army's habit of acting autonomously, without the involvement of civilian authority, started back then.

Some words eventually reached Prime Minister Liaquat Ali Khan and Sardar Shaukat Hayat Khan, a minister in the Punjab government, but the Pakistani Army Chief and Jinnah himself were still out of the loop. A military thrust was planned, with the objective of deposing Maharaja Hari Singh and taking Kashmir by force. It was assumed that disposed veterans and other Muslims from Poonch and Kashmir valley will join the uprising. The overall plan was characterized by amateur enthusiasm, lack off operational experience and inability to foresee the immediate enemy reaction and it's after effects.

One will find striking similarities in these schemes of 1948, 1965 and 1999. All had some over-enthusiastic and somewhat out-of-control military officer/political leader planning for taking the region by military,characterized by lack of coordination/communication, with the assumption that locals will support them and in all cases, the enemies response and it's effects on regional as well international scale was grossly miscalculated.

By October,1947, hardly a few months since independence the elements within the Pakistani army were convinced that Maharaja Hari Singh's indecisiveness is in essence his reluctance to join Pakistan and the situation has reached a critical stage already!
Under Col. Akbar Khan's command, Khurshid Anwar, Cmdr. Muslim League National Guards, Khan Abdul Qayyum Khan, the minister from NWFP and Khwaja Rahim, the commissioner of Rawalpindi, put together a force of around 2000 tribesmen from NWFP and tribal areas. They crossed into Kashmir through Jhelum Valley on October 23 early morning.
The following evening, Nehru became aware of the situation and discussed informed Mountbatten. This is the point of catastrophic mistake by Pakistan. Given the course of time and how things were developing, Kashmir probably would have gone to Pakistan only. But then, someone decided to jump the gun.
Maharaja Hari Singh panicked. He took it as an invasive attack by Pakistan and asked for help from India. India decided to fight only if the attack was against Indian sovereignty. Hence Hari Singh decided to accede to India and signed the instrument on October 26 and Indian troops landed on Srinagar airport shortly. By that time, the militia had already reached outskirts of Srinagar, quite close to the airport.

When Indian forces reached Srinagar, it was then that Jinnah came into action. He ordered Pakistani acting Army Chief General Douglas Gracey(Messervy was on leave) to march on Srinagar, which, he refused. Field Marshal Auchinleck, the supreme Commander of all British forces in India ordered all British officers to stand down and a limited war continued, till Nehru sought UN intervention. After negotiations, a ceasefire was arranged, in effect from 31 December, 1948.
 

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