So what are the reasons why modern science developed in Europe

[GameSparta500]

What are the reasons why modern mathematics and science developed pretty much exclusively in Europe

despite the fact that countries like China, The Arabic World, India were more advanced than Europe for centuries, it seems like that completely shifted during the Rennaisance (which was started by Arabics translating lost greek texts) but then Europe started to dominate math and science

 

[Indika]

separation of religion from state was one of the factors. Religion often dictated which was wrong & right and state often looked at religious head for approval.
Other was intense competition among european powers to gain more trade & colonies. This led to innovation in military especially naval & related technologies. Along with it rose trader class & commerce.

 

[GameSparta500]

separation of religion from state was one of the factors. Religion often dictated which was wrong & right and state often looked at religious head for approval.
Other was intense competition among european powers to gain more trade & colonies. This led to innovation in military especially naval & related technologies. Along with it rose trader class & commerce.

so insular countries like India and China had no incentive to develop...interesting thesis

 

[litman]

separation of religion from state was one of the factors. Religion often dictated which was wrong & right and state often looked at religious head for approval.
Other was intense competition among european powers to gain more trade & colonies. This led to innovation in military especially naval & related technologies. Along with it rose trader class & commerce.

some people are simply bent upon putting the blame of every failure on religion.

 

[untitled]

Many modern historians often overlook the religious aspect of why the western (then Christian) world has progressed so rapidly. One of the major reasons was a strong Christian identity and a motivation to prove the world that the Christian world view is superior to all others. One has to recall that during the European exploration age and Renaissance, these Europeans were actively promoting Christianity through their missionary activities too.

European nations faced a genuine threat to their way of life from Muslim Spain and the Ottoman empire. Once they these threats were removed these nations went on to bring back the former glory to the Christian world which had been put in check by the rise of Islam. By the time India became a British colony in 1857, the British society was anything but atheist.

Ignoring the Christian foundations of the modern Western world would be a great disservice to their history.

So the bottom line is that zeal for an ideology can do wonders if channeled properly.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

There seems to always be a pattern. One era, the West is ahead - the next era, the East is ahead.

Almost all aspects of the modern world, originated during the Islamic golden age.

Muslims lost their edge in science, maths, technology around the 1700s. This was accredited to the domino effects caused by the fall of Al-Andalus, sack of Baghdad, the Crusades, Mongol invasions and cultural borrowing/infringement.

War became much more prominent, various sects developed and indulged in sectarian conflicts, cultural laws overtook Islamic laws, a lack of well-educated religious leaders led to local influential chiefs interpreting Quran in their own way to justify their goals and ambitions.

The death blow came after the Janissary Corps refused to modernize and change. As they were very influential - their thinking of "modern/progress/education = haram (religiously forbidden)" spread throughout the Muslim world. Prominently the Arab world. This later evolved to arguments such as "who cares about science or maths, all we need is to pray 5 times a day" or "this life is temporary, we don't need maths or science" - despite the Quran making it clear that seeking education and knowledge (in all fields) is mandatory in Islam. This approach pitted Islam against science (even though they are considered inseparable). Scholars that were once praised and most respected became 'heretics' or 'conspirators'. This reasoning was also heavily influenced by Christianity (during the dark ages) and Orthodox movements (both Jewish and Christian). To this day, this thinking is still very dominant in many Muslim regions.

 

[GameSparta500]

There seems to always be a pattern. One era, the West is ahead - the next era, the East is ahead.

Almost all aspects of the modern world, originated during the Islamic golden age.

Muslims lost their edge in science, maths, technology around the 1700s. This was accredited to the domino effects caused by the fall of Al-Andalus, sack of Baghdad, the Crusades, Mongol invasions and cultural borrowing/infringement.

War became much more prominent, various sects developed and indulged in sectarian conflicts, cultural laws overtook Islamic laws, a lack of well-educated religious leaders led to local influential chiefs interpreting Quran in their own way to justify their goals and ambitions.

The death blow came after the Janissary Corps refused to modernize and change. As they were very influential - their thinking of "modern/progress/education = haram (religiously forbidden)" spread throughout the Muslim world. Prominently the Arab world. This later evolved to arguments such as "who cares about science or maths, all we need is to pray 5 times a day" or "this life is temporary, we don't need maths or science" - despite the Quran making it clear that seeking education and knowledge (in all fields) is mandatory in Islam. This approach pitted Islam against science (even though they are considered inseparable). Scholars that were once praised and most respected became 'heretics' or 'conspirators'. This reasoning was also heavily influenced by Christianity (during the dark ages) and Orthodox movements (both Jewish and Christian). To this day, this thinking is still very dominant in many Muslim regions.

I read somewhere that Muslim intellectuals had trouble adjusting to Newton's Principia and the revelations there, is that true?

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

I read somewhere that Muslim intellectuals had trouble adjusting to Newton's Principia and the revelations there, is that true?

I doubt so. Infact, Newton based off much of his work from Islamic scholars. Such as Al-Haytham who wrote about the laws governing the movement of bodies (later known as Newton’s 3 laws of motion) and the attraction between two bodies – gravity. It was not, in fact, the apple that fell from the tree that told Newton about gravity, but the books of Ibn al-Haytham.

You should read this article:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/jan/30/religion.world

 

[GiG]

The modern world is created by WARS is the west
First world war
Second world war
Cold war
Space race
All lead to big scientific achievements in a very little time space which would not be possible in a peaceful world

 

[Indika]

some people are simply bent upon putting the blame of every failure on religion.

if at all you knew european history....

http://www.inquiriesjournal.com/art...o-and-the-church-science-in-a-religious-world
Copernicus, Galileo, and the Church: Science in a Religious World
By Nicholas P. Leveillee
2011, Vol. 3 No. 05 | pg. 1/2 | »
Cite References Print
AddThis Sharing Buttons
Share to Google BookmarkShare to Facebook37Share to TwitterShare to PrintShare to More251
KEYWORDS:
Copernicus Galileo Astronomy History Of Science Scientific Revolution Spanish Inquisition Catholic Church
During most of the 16th and 17th centuries, fear of heretics spreading teachings and opinions that contradicted the Bible dominated the Catholic Church. They persecuted scientists who formed theories the Church deemed heretical and forbade people from reading any books on those subjects by placing the books on the Index of Prohibited Books. A type of war between science and religion was in play but there would be more casualties on the side of science.

Nicholas Copernicus and Galileo Galilei were two scientists who printed books that later became banned. Copernicus faced no persecution when he was alive because he died shortly after publishing his book. Galileo, on the other hand, was tried by the Inquisition after his book was published. Both scientists held the same theory that the Earth revolved around the sun, a theory now known to be true. However, the Church disapproved of this theory because the Holy Scriptures state that the Earth is at the center, not the Sun. As the contents of the Bible were taken literally, the publishing of these books proved, to the Church, that Copernicus and Galileo were sinners; they preached, through their writing, that the Bible was wrong.



Nicholas Copernicus (1473 - 1543), mathematician and astronomer, established a model of the universe with the sun, rather than earth, at its center. His most notable book, On the Revolutions of Heavenly Bodies, was highly controversial when it was published in 1543 but nevertheless became a fundamental turning point in the history of science.

Copernicus published his book On the Revolutions of the Heavenly Bodies (hereafter referred to simply as Revolutions) in 1543 shortly before his death.1.) In Revolutions, Copernicus states that the Sun is at the center and the Earth revolves around it while rotating on its axis daily.2.) Like all scholarly authors, Copernicus wrote in Latin, which only educated people could read, effectively minimizing the number of readers to a select few.3.)

The phrasing Copernicus utilized was “that if the earth were in motion then the observed phenomenon would result.”4.) This phrasing is extremely important as it means the Copernicus himself could deny he believed it; he merely fashioned it in such a way that it was a hypothesis that would allow astronomers to correct mathematical errors they came across while observing the heavens. By writing in this fashion, Copernicus would have been able to deny that he himself believed in heliocentrism because he phrased it as nothing more than a hypothesis and as a result, would be able to slip past the Church's dislike of heliocentrism.

Copernicus' theories are not fully formed, meaning there are several flaws that make the heliocentric hypothesis appear weak and ill-contrived. According to Giovanni Tolsani in 1546, a member of the Dominican Order, “almost all the hypotheses of this author Copernicus contain something false”5.) and he “seems unfamiliar with Holy Scripture since he contradicts some of its principles.”6.) Revolutions was not placed on the Index of Prohibited Books until 1616, seventy-three years after it was first published.7.)

A censored version with some sections changed or omitted was released four years after it was prohibited.8.) It is possible that Revolutions was not banned immediately because of its hypothetical nature and weak arguments. However, Tolsani also wrote, a papal authority “had planned to condemn his [Copernicus'] book. But, prevented at first by illness, then by death, he could not carry out this [plan].”9.) After his death, the Church was heavily involved in the Council of Trent during the years 1545 to 1563 and other matters10.) . Thus, Revolutions escaped prohibition for many years and eventually influenced Galileo Galilei, who read it and wrote on the subject himself.

In 1616, Galileo was issued an injunction not to “hold, defend, or teach” heliocentrism.11.) When he began writing Dialogues in 1624, he intended to present both arguments equally. However, he wrote the arbitrator in such a way that he decided the Copernican speaker had the most points that made logical sense, thus supporting Copernicanism throughout his book.12.)

When Galileo originally tried to print Dialogues in 1630, he was ordered to have it printed in Rome. However, he left Rome because of the outbreak of plague and communicated with the Master of the Sacred Palace, the chief censor, through writing. The Master of the Sacred Palace ordered Galileo to have someone the Master chose review the manuscript to ensure it was fit for publishing.

Father Master Giancito Stefani was chosen to review the manuscript and the publisher followed all instructions from the Father Master.13.) Galileo said, during his trial in 1633, that he did not believe what he wrote, that he let his vanity influence his words and phrasing to make him appear more intelligent to his readers but this plan failed when his readers came to the conclusion that he believed the Copernican hypothesis to be true because of his powerful phrasing.14.)

Galileo wrote and published Dialogue on the Two Chief Systems of the World, Ptolemaic and Copernican (Dialogues) in 1632; Pope Urban VIII issued an order almost immediately to prevent the publisher from printing more copies.15.) It was printed in Italian, not in Latin like Revolutions, so all of Italy was able to read it.16.) The original title had been Dialogue on the Ebb and Flow of the Sea but it was changed so it would not appear that Galileo was pushing the fact that the tides supported his opinion and the new title also appeared more theoretical.



Galileo Galilei (1564 - 1642) made significant contributions to the scientific revolution, specifically by making improvements to the telescope and by making astronomical observations that supported Copernicus's findings.

Also, the title with the sea in it might have made the Church feel threatened that Galileo was supporting heliocentrism, which would have resulted in Galileo being charged with heresy. Dialogues was structured as several conversations between a supporter of Ptolemy, a Copernicus supporter, and a neutral arbitrator. The Copernican supporter spoke Galileo's mind and the Ptolemaic supporter was called Simplicio, simpleton in Italian.17.) Urban was infuriated when he read the book and saw that the phrase he required in order for the book to be published, about God's omnipotence, was said by Simplicio.

In the Pope's mind, Galileo was making a caricature of him by having Simplicio say that phrase. Personal vanity is believed to have led the Pope to cry for a committee to be made to determine if Galileo should be tried by the Inquisition and to determine how the book was published and not censored.18.) Galileo also insulted people who did not believe in Copernicanism; a fact which did not escape the notice of Pope Urban VIII's advisory committee.19.) Because Galileo did not phrase his words as hypothetical, readers thought Galileo held the theory that the Earth revolved around the Sun.20.) The committee created by the Pope also came to the same conclusion: Galileo knew what he was doing and must be disciplined for it.

The committee created to charge Galileo determined that Galileo held heliocentrism as a matter of fact and violated the injunction issued to him.21.) With that decision, it was determined that Galileo would be tried by the Inquisition. The Inquisition did not need to decide if Galileo was innocent or guilty, they already knew he was guilty. The Inquisition wanted to determine what Galileo's intentions were. Galileo tried to delay going to Rome for the trial, most likely due to the Inquisition's infamous methods. He wrote to the Inquisitors and said he would be happy to answer questions by mail. He cited his failing health for his reluctance to take the 200 mile journey and had three doctors write to the Inquisition to say that he was unable to travel without risking his life.Continued on Next Page »

so insular countries like India and China had no incentive to develop...interesting thesis

you are right partly japan was highly insular country but by the end of 18th century that changed. They borrowed a lot of ideas from europeans and modernized themselves. It was the same case with russia until peter the great brought in changes.

 

[litman]

if at all you knew european history....

http://www.inquiriesjournal.com/art...o-and-the-church-science-in-a-religious-world
Copernicus, Galileo, and the Church: Science in a Religious World
By Nicholas P. Leveillee
2011, Vol. 3 No. 05 | pg. 1/2 | »
Cite References Print
AddThis Sharing Buttons
Share to Google BookmarkShare to Facebook37Share to TwitterShare to PrintShare to More251
KEYWORDS:
Copernicus Galileo Astronomy History Of Science Scientific Revolution Spanish Inquisition Catholic Church
During most of the 16th and 17th centuries, fear of heretics spreading teachings and opinions that contradicted the Bible dominated the Catholic Church. They persecuted scientists who formed theories the Church deemed heretical and forbade people from reading any books on those subjects by placing the books on the Index of Prohibited Books. A type of war between science and religion was in play but there would be more casualties on the side of science.

Nicholas Copernicus and Galileo Galilei were two scientists who printed books that later became banned. Copernicus faced no persecution when he was alive because he died shortly after publishing his book. Galileo, on the other hand, was tried by the Inquisition after his book was published. Both scientists held the same theory that the Earth revolved around the sun, a theory now known to be true. However, the Church disapproved of this theory because the Holy Scriptures state that the Earth is at the center, not the Sun. As the contents of the Bible were taken literally, the publishing of these books proved, to the Church, that Copernicus and Galileo were sinners; they preached, through their writing, that the Bible was wrong.



Nicholas Copernicus (1473 - 1543), mathematician and astronomer, established a model of the universe with the sun, rather than earth, at its center. His most notable book, On the Revolutions of Heavenly Bodies, was highly controversial when it was published in 1543 but nevertheless became a fundamental turning point in the history of science.

Copernicus published his book On the Revolutions of the Heavenly Bodies (hereafter referred to simply as Revolutions) in 1543 shortly before his death.1.) In Revolutions, Copernicus states that the Sun is at the center and the Earth revolves around it while rotating on its axis daily.2.) Like all scholarly authors, Copernicus wrote in Latin, which only educated people could read, effectively minimizing the number of readers to a select few.3.)

The phrasing Copernicus utilized was “that if the earth were in motion then the observed phenomenon would result.”4.) This phrasing is extremely important as it means the Copernicus himself could deny he believed it; he merely fashioned it in such a way that it was a hypothesis that would allow astronomers to correct mathematical errors they came across while observing the heavens. By writing in this fashion, Copernicus would have been able to deny that he himself believed in heliocentrism because he phrased it as nothing more than a hypothesis and as a result, would be able to slip past the Church's dislike of heliocentrism.

Copernicus' theories are not fully formed, meaning there are several flaws that make the heliocentric hypothesis appear weak and ill-contrived. According to Giovanni Tolsani in 1546, a member of the Dominican Order, “almost all the hypotheses of this author Copernicus contain something false”5.) and he “seems unfamiliar with Holy Scripture since he contradicts some of its principles.”6.) Revolutions was not placed on the Index of Prohibited Books until 1616, seventy-three years after it was first published.7.)

A censored version with some sections changed or omitted was released four years after it was prohibited.8.) It is possible that Revolutions was not banned immediately because of its hypothetical nature and weak arguments. However, Tolsani also wrote, a papal authority “had planned to condemn his [Copernicus'] book. But, prevented at first by illness, then by death, he could not carry out this [plan].”9.) After his death, the Church was heavily involved in the Council of Trent during the years 1545 to 1563 and other matters10.) . Thus, Revolutions escaped prohibition for many years and eventually influenced Galileo Galilei, who read it and wrote on the subject himself.

In 1616, Galileo was issued an injunction not to “hold, defend, or teach” heliocentrism.11.) When he began writing Dialogues in 1624, he intended to present both arguments equally. However, he wrote the arbitrator in such a way that he decided the Copernican speaker had the most points that made logical sense, thus supporting Copernicanism throughout his book.12.)

When Galileo originally tried to print Dialogues in 1630, he was ordered to have it printed in Rome. However, he left Rome because of the outbreak of plague and communicated with the Master of the Sacred Palace, the chief censor, through writing. The Master of the Sacred Palace ordered Galileo to have someone the Master chose review the manuscript to ensure it was fit for publishing.

Father Master Giancito Stefani was chosen to review the manuscript and the publisher followed all instructions from the Father Master.13.) Galileo said, during his trial in 1633, that he did not believe what he wrote, that he let his vanity influence his words and phrasing to make him appear more intelligent to his readers but this plan failed when his readers came to the conclusion that he believed the Copernican hypothesis to be true because of his powerful phrasing.14.)

Galileo wrote and published Dialogue on the Two Chief Systems of the World, Ptolemaic and Copernican (Dialogues) in 1632; Pope Urban VIII issued an order almost immediately to prevent the publisher from printing more copies.15.) It was printed in Italian, not in Latin like Revolutions, so all of Italy was able to read it.16.) The original title had been Dialogue on the Ebb and Flow of the Sea but it was changed so it would not appear that Galileo was pushing the fact that the tides supported his opinion and the new title also appeared more theoretical.



Galileo Galilei (1564 - 1642) made significant contributions to the scientific revolution, specifically by making improvements to the telescope and by making astronomical observations that supported Copernicus's findings.

Also, the title with the sea in it might have made the Church feel threatened that Galileo was supporting heliocentrism, which would have resulted in Galileo being charged with heresy. Dialogues was structured as several conversations between a supporter of Ptolemy, a Copernicus supporter, and a neutral arbitrator. The Copernican supporter spoke Galileo's mind and the Ptolemaic supporter was called Simplicio, simpleton in Italian.17.) Urban was infuriated when he read the book and saw that the phrase he required in order for the book to be published, about God's omnipotence, was said by Simplicio.

In the Pope's mind, Galileo was making a caricature of him by having Simplicio say that phrase. Personal vanity is believed to have led the Pope to cry for a committee to be made to determine if Galileo should be tried by the Inquisition and to determine how the book was published and not censored.18.) Galileo also insulted people who did not believe in Copernicanism; a fact which did not escape the notice of Pope Urban VIII's advisory committee.19.) Because Galileo did not phrase his words as hypothetical, readers thought Galileo held the theory that the Earth revolved around the Sun.20.) The committee created by the Pope also came to the same conclusion: Galileo knew what he was doing and must be disciplined for it.

The committee created to charge Galileo determined that Galileo held heliocentrism as a matter of fact and violated the injunction issued to him.21.) With that decision, it was determined that Galileo would be tried by the Inquisition. The Inquisition did not need to decide if Galileo was innocent or guilty, they already knew he was guilty. The Inquisition wanted to determine what Galileo's intentions were. Galileo tried to delay going to Rome for the trial, most likely due to the Inquisition's infamous methods. He wrote to the Inquisitors and said he would be happy to answer questions by mail. He cited his failing health for his reluctance to take the 200 mile journey and had three doctors write to the Inquisition to say that he was unable to travel without risking his life.Continued on Next Page »


you are right partly japan was highly insular country but by the end of 18th century that changed. They borrowed a lot of ideas from europeans and modernized themselves. It was the same case with russia until peter the great brought in changes.

religious scriptures are not books of science entirely. i dont know about european history nor about indian history. i am a muslim and in my religion it is highly recommended to study and research. i dont wanna know what the mullah, priest, rabbi, pandit said and did about science. i have got clear instruction to face hardships for the sake of knowledge and my religion is not an obstruction to science. it is the misinterpretation by the followers who think otherwise.
as far as science and scientists are concerned they are not final authority as well. till few decades ago homosexuality was concerned as disease by psychiatrists and now those who dont like it are considered psycho. what non sense. science has limited scope . it is totally devoid of the concept of spirituality which forms the core of all Abrahamic religions. can you prove the reality of true dreams with the help of scientific experiment?
BTW i did not read your post at all as i dont like to discuss such things with stubborn people who are just too much blinded with whatever the media feeds them. bye

 

[B+ Dracula]

It is very interesting Question,....but I found 2 answers in two different books....one from famous Pakistani Historian "Dr.Mubarak Ali" and Another source is unknown unfortunately

a) According to Dr. Mubarak Ali, Muslims advanced in field of science, BUT all of their efforts were sum as INDIVIDUAL efforts.....which means to us....there was no Government level support to them.....And.....there was a lack of Research environment and no institution was formed.

b) Europeans, on the other hand, formed Institutions and channelize the gaps in different fields.

1) Their Government was supportive in this regard

2) Second major breakthrough was.....The invention of "Insurance Policy" that also brought Miracles in the field of Science, Like there was some Ship Owner, who lends his Ship to the Captain and his crew member for some future business prospect ........and at the same time get his Ship insured. If the Ships returned safely after the successful voyage he earns his fate along with Ship Crew staff or If Not then only poor souls lost their lives But the Owner of Ship gets his damage payment back.

That brought miracles in increase Ship Voyage, study tours and exploring the world and finding new heavens in the World

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

) Second major breakthrough was.....The invention of "Insurance Policy" that also brought Miracles in the field of Science, Like there was some Ship Owner, who lends his Ship to the Captain and his crew member for some future business prospect ........and at the same time get his Ship insured. If the Ships returned safely after the successful voyage he earns his fate along with Ship Crew staff or If Not then only poor souls lost their lives But the Owner of Ship gets his damage payment back.

Insurance policies existed waaay back, even during the Ancient era.

a) According to Dr. Mubarak Ali, Muslims advanced in field of science, BUT all of their efforts were sum as INDIVIDUAL efforts.....which means to us....there was no Government level support to them.....And.....there was a lack of Research environment and no institution was formed.

He is quite wrong. Caliphs and Sultans themselves indulged in science, arts, maths and ect... - They built and support institutions including the first Universities.

 

[B+ Dracula]

He is quite wrong. Caliphs and Sultans themselves indulged in science, arts, maths and ect... - They built and support institutions including the first Universities.

Dear, If you are talking about some achievement then take a Long-term perspective in your views Not just one incident where Caliph rewarded scientists for his achievements. Iam a big advocate of Caliph Umer for bringing huge reform in those Era like he established Police Department, Land Records, Goverment Office Records, Geography was first taken into account etc etc.....But all those reforms pertains to one specific era or Century

Sultan Fateh invented world biggest CANNON of his time by hiring Hungarian Scientist Orban, Then later Tipu Sultan Invented World first Missiles. Then Shah Jahan took Civil Engineering into new high by constructing TAJ-MAHAL....which was unparallel in his times. King Taimur the lame invented First "Grenade" by employing Explosive Powder in Leather pocket with some Stone pieces....he normally used those explosives in bringing Forts wall down by digging ditch under Forts wall.....then one day one of his soldier used these explosives in leather Pocket that lead to modern form of Grenade.

But my point is......all those chains of events pertains to One Good Ruler and One Good Century....other than that there was no such Institution to minimize the Gap in research like Europeans followed that model successfully.

The formula was simple If you want to continue your Scientific Experiments then you must have enough savings to continue your work or....Get yourself associated to some Kings Courts, where you will be rewarded well for your scientific achievements like Ibn e Sina, Nizam Uddin tousi, Albairuni and Other great names.
.
Second, there was not enough education for everyone in those Era, only a few brainy people have access to precious books (Books was precious in those days)........moreover, there was also a prevailing myth of "Education is not for all" to keep them subjugated.....Even names like Sir Syed Ahmed Khan fell into that trap.

.

 

[B+ Dracula]

Insurance policies existed waaay back, even during the Ancient era.

But where it applied successfully ?? for Research, Study Tours, Scientific discoveries