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'Snub' just a snag in Russia-India ties

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'Snub' just a snag in Russia-India ties

India's defense relations with Russia have hit a bit of rough weather with Moscow canceling two important bilateral military exercises in recent months.

First, Russia called off joint naval exercises scheduled to be held at Vladivostok in late April. This was followed with the cancellation of the joint army exercise it was to host in June. According to an Indo-Asian News Service (IANS) report, Russia called off the naval exercises even as India's warships - including INS Delhi, INS Ranvir and INS Ranvijay - had already reached Vladivostok for the war games.

The explanation put out by Moscow was that Russian ships would not be available for the exercises since they were being deployed for relief operations in Japan in the wake of the earthquake and tsunami disaster.

Adding insult to injury, after the cancelation of the exercises, the Russian ships sailed off into the Pacific to engage in war games on their own. As for the joint army exercises, Moscow reportedly told Delhi that its late intimation had left it with little time for preparation; hence its inability to host.

The Indian media has interpreted the Russian move as a tit-for-tat response to India's rejection of its bid for a US$10.4 billion sale to India of 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA). Russia's MiG-35, Sweden's Gripen NG fighter, and the Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet and the Lockheed Martin F-16IN Super Viper from the United States were among those that failed to make the cut.

That left Typhoon jets from the four-nation EADS Eurofighter consortium and Rafale from Dassault of France in the final round of the race for the mega-deal.

The Indian government is playing down the media's description of the Russian pull out from war games as a "snub". Russia postponed rather than cancelled the exercises, it said. "There was nothing last-minute about the postponement of the naval exercise," said Ajai Malhotra, India's ambassador in Moscow.

In view of the disaster in Japan, the Russians informed India in mid-March of the decision to postpone the exercises. "This was well over a month before that exercise was to have been held," Malhotra said.

The Indian navy too has said that the Russians informed them ahead of their inability to participate in the exercises. Its spokesperson Commander P V S Satish said that India sent its warships to Vladivostok only for a port call.

Military sources dismiss the "flimsy excuses" put out by the Russians. An army officer told Asia Times Online that India-Russia military exercises are "planned months in advance" and are "are not informal or ad-hoc." These war games are part of the Indra series of military exercises that India and Russia have been conducting since 2003, and "there have been no problems in the past".

The loss of "the deal of the century" would have hurt Russia, though of the three losers, Moscow is reported to have responded with the least fuss to India's decision not to purchase its hardware. However, a report in Pravda pointed out that the lost bid for the Indian deal "virtually means that Russia's air force will not be receiving those fighter jets [MiG-35s] either".

Elaborating the argument, the report said that had India purchased the Russian fighter jets, the huge contract would have enabled the manufacturer to set its price lower for the home market. That was not possible now. "Most likely, Russia will have to shelve those plans [to purchase 72 MiG-35s]," it concluded.

Furthermore, India's rejection of the MiG-35 is expected to weaken Russia's chances of sales in potential markets in Latin America and the Middle East.

A Ministry of Defense official rejected the view that the Russian move is a response to Delhi's decision on the MMRCA deal.

He pointed out in an interview with Asia Times Online that just as India had "some difficulties with the Russians" with regard to defense procurement, perhaps Moscow too had its "problems" with India "on other issues". These difficulties are bound to find their reflection in "occasional snubs and spats", he said, cautioning against giving these too much importance, especially since the relationship remains robust.

Reports in the Indian media have often drawn attention to the time and cost overruns that plague Russian military deals with India.

A refurbished Admiral Gorshkov (a Russian aircraft carrier now renamed INS Vikramaditya) was to be ready for induction into the Indian navy by 2008. But three years down the line the aircraft carrier is not ready yet and whether the Russians will delivery it by their new end 2012-early 2013 deadline seems doubtful. What is more, India is forking out $2.34 billion for Gorshkov's retrofitting instead of the $974 million agreed upon in 2004.

Similar problems have dogged the delivery of an Akula-II class nuclear-powered submarine, which Russia had promised to handover to India in 2009 on a 10-year lease, and of Talwar-class stealth frigates.

Like the navy, the Indian Air Force and the army have complained about the delays in delivery and repair of Russian equipment and a shortage of spare parts. Russia's sudden hiking of the cost of Sukhoi fighters and its renegotiation of the contract for supply of the Su-30s to India in 2007 did inject a perceptible chill in bilateral relations.

On their part, the Russians feel aggrieved over India's warming relations with the US. They point out that while India is purchasing billions of dollars of weaponry from the Americans, the Israelis and other rivals, Moscow has pointedly avoided supplying arms to Pakistan out of respect for Indian sensitivities.

The bilateral quibbling notwithstanding, India-Russia relations are far more stable and less volatile than those between India and the other big powers. At the end of the day, India knows that Russia is its most dependable partner and the Russians are far more willing to share technology than the others. Delhi also recognizes that unlike the Russians, the Americans have little compunction about making available to Pakistan, the same military hardware it sold to India.

And the Russians know they cannot afford to antagonize India because of the huge market it provides to its arms industry.

Even as Russia recovers from the blow of the rejection of its bid to supply combat aircraft and as India smarts from the Russian snub over the military exercises, Moscow has shifted to top gear its campaign for multi-billion dollar deals for supplying India with light choppers, attack helicopters and heavy cargo carriers. Together the deals are pegged at being worth about $4 billion.

According to the Russia & India Report, in an attempt to make its bids attractive, Russian Helicopters JSC is offering to assemble choppers in India before their export to third countries. Clearly, Russia is anxious to avoid a repeat of its failed bid to sell combat aircraft.

Asia Times Online :: 'Snub' just a snag in Russia-India ties
 
But they cant simply hike the price of mki's like that. Any reason for it?
If no proper reason we should show our talent in reverse engineering.
 
But they cant simply hike the price of mki's like that. Any reason for it?
If no proper reason we should show our talent in reverse engineering.
There was a detailed description about this from a senior member in this forum. Also there are many points very in accurate.
 
NEW DELHI: The five Indian navy ships - three destroyers, a missile corvette and a tanker - had arrived in Vladivostok, the huge naval facility in the Russian Far East. The welcome was excellent and officers on both sides met as old friends.

Then, abruptly, the Russians pulled out of Exercise Indra, a series of war games and naval exercises scheduled for April 18 to 22.
The incident was widely regarded as a snub from Moscow, and highlighted the changing nature in what was once a relationship so tight that it was an alliance in every aspect except in name.

But 21st-century India, backed by a booming economy, is rapidly building strategic ties with the United States and other Western powers. Even as the relationship between Moscow and New Delhi remains largely warm, trade is floundering and the Indians are weaning themselves off Russian arms.
Clearly, the South Asian giant has outgrown its old dependence on Russia, which is now not only involved in a 'reset' of ties with the US but also courting its giant neighbour to the east, China.

The official reason offered for bailing out of Exercise Indra was that Russian ships were deployed to help Japan in the aftermath of its March 11 tsunami and nuclear accident. But even as the Indians prepared to return home, they saw the Russian fleet sailing out to exercise on its own.
'There was an element of disappointment,' Indian navy chief Nirmal Verma told Ria Novosti news agency later, noting the huge expense and logistics involved in sailing the Indian arm-ada 8,000km to the Russian port. 'But as was explained to us by Russia, this was in view of the incidents that had taken place in Japan. So one has to understand.'

As a close friend during the Cold War, Russia gave India steel technology when the West would not. It helped to build fertiliser plants in the country, and to this day Russia continues to be the principal weapons supplier to the Indian military and a key tech-nology contributor to India's military research and development.

But in 1991 the Soviet Union splintered. India, meanwhile, opened its economy and now boasts a gross domestic product of US$1.3 trillion (S$1.6 trillion) and is coasting along at close to double-digit growth. And as its trading ties with the world grow apace, bilateral trade with Russia bumps along at a meagre US$10 billion or less.

India also is actively diversifying its sources of weapons.
This week, it okayed the purchase of giant C-17 transport aircraft from the US in a deal worth a little more than US$4 billion. Last month, it ignored both Russia and the US to shortlist Euro-pean manufacturers for the purchase of 126 multi-role combat aircraft in a deal potentially worth more than US$10 billion.

On the cancellation of the bi-annual Indra exercise, some think Russia was paying India back for ignoring its fighter aircraft.

There is no shortage of theories. Some think Russia may also be sensitive to Beijing's concerns at a time when Chinese power is rising and there is rivalry between China and India for dominance in the Indian Ocean.

'Russia is deathly scared of China,' a high-ranking Indian naval officer told The Straits Times. 'Vladivostok is close to China and a joint exercise there can only send one message - that we are jointly targeting the Chinese. Russia was reluctant to do so. We are continuing with our joint exercises with them in the Baltics and elsewhere.'

The officer related an anecdote of a fellow admiral asking a Russian counterpart what he would do if he spotted a flotilla of Chinese warships sailing in his direction.

'We will look to the West,' the Russian responded frankly. 'And if we don't see any help forthcoming, we will stand aside and let the Chinese sail through.'

India's naval brass bristles at the idea that Russia may be piqued that India is buying its weapons elsewhere.

'The Russians themselves have been sourcing key parts from France and other countries,' one officer said. 'If anything, they should be grateful to us for ordering the navy MiG-29s for Gorshkov that they haven't themselves inducted into their forces. Their avionics is lousy and they haven't yet rectified the problems with the aircraft's landing gear.'

India bought the Russian carrier Gorshkov for US$2.3 billion, paying nearly four times the original contracted price after the Russians threatened to renege on the deal.

After protracted delays caused by a massive refit, the ship, now called Vikramaditya after a famous Indian emperor, is expected to arrive in India in the next 12 months. The carrier packs the MiG-29K, a multi-role combat aircraft.

Meanwhile, India is expect-ing the Nerpa, an 8,000-tonne nuclear-powered attack sub-marine, on lease from Russia. The submarine, more than four years behind schedule, suffered a fire accident during a sea trial off Japan in 2008.
Some analysts think Russia, still emerging from its mindset of the Soviet era when India was a junior ally, simply has not adapted to a New Delhi that is its equal.

'Because of economic growth and the money that has come with it, we are now able to look at things that are more than just cheap,' said Russia watcher Nandan Unnikrishnan of New Delhi's Observer Research Foundation.
'Meanwhile, we are also moving westwards in our relationships. All these give us many more options. Because of this India and Russia are fading from each other's radar.'

This is what we got on the Singapore news, I thought I would put it up since its related. Just for added viewpoints around the world no links to the article though its by subscribe only
 
But they cant simply hike the price of mki's like that. Any reason for it?
If no proper reason we should show our talent in reverse engineering.
You cannot expect price to remain same and add additional features.
What the noob reporter is talking about is the super su-30MKI. That is now able to carry brahMos and other advanced features, Low RCS and even more powerful radar!! We must just not believe these stupid jurnos and have a look at the related thread.
 
But they cant simply hike the price of mki's like that. Any reason for it?
If no proper reason we should show our talent in reverse engineering.

you can't reverse-engineer a plane.

Don't fall for whatever western media says about China. They are just maligning others out of jealousy.

In fact, Indian IAF chief was quite stupid, when he said "we should revere-engineer too". He doesn't know a jack-sh*t about things he is talking.
 
You cannot expect price to remain same and add additional features.
What the noob reporter is talking about is the super su-30MKI. That is now able to carry brahMos and other advanced features, Low RCS and even more powerful radar!! We must just not believe these stupid jurnos and have a look at the related thread.

So the next mki's will cost less? Any news about low rcs? I think no as rcs still increases when a bay for Brahmos is arranged and as the radar power is increased.

you can't reverse-engineer a plane.

Don't fall for whatever western media says about China. They are just maligning others out of jealousy.

In fact, Indian IAF chief was quite stupid, when he said "we should revere-engineer too". He doesn't know a jack-sh*t about things he is talking.
We had experience in making MKI's with full tot, it is possible but we ll never do that.

---------- Post added at 06:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:45 PM ----------

There was a detailed description about this from a senior member in this forum. Also there are many points very in accurate.

can u pls provide the link.
 
That's what happens when an idiot PM like MMS is ruling.

He's done well economically at least. But I think he's too much a of nice guy to make for a ruthless geostrategist.

manmohan-singh1_iZo2a_3868.jpg


He even looks like a grandfatherly teddy bear.
 
Shitty Russians .
They still think they are superpower <_<
Why? Just because they are offering us weapons which no other country is offering? Because they have offered a partnership in their most modern aircraft? because of their nuclear deal? Why?
 
ToT is nothing but instructions on "how to screw-drive a plane together, from imported parts". Its useless.
It was said that 250 th mki of India will be made completely indigenous and more over spare plant will be established in India to make India less dependent on Russia. Thats the advantage with Russia.
 

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