Smoothbore Vs Rifled Gun: Arjun MkII future

[The_Sidewinder]

Most of world's MBTs except Challenger and Arjun operates smoothbore guns ehich is considered superior to Rifled guns due to vastness of ammo used and better penatration of modern armor. Even M1A2's have moved on to 120 mm smoothbore guns, british are also moving towards the same direction. Dont you think DRDO should also move to same direction if it wants Arjun mkII to become a world beater.
Make no mistakes Arjun MkII is probably one of the best protected tanks, comparable to best in the business. Which is no surprised as design has to changed midway by DRDO to stand toe to toe and take hits from Pakistani M1A1 export model ( the deal never happened) . But Arjuns main gun is inferior ( it seems) to even T90s.
Dont you think we should move onto smoothbore guns? Or am I missing something.
Note: please keep the discussion strictly ontopic which is smoothbore vs rifled

 

[AUz]

Smoothbore guns are superior to Rifled guns...

Superior tanks like Merkava, Al Khalid-I, Leopards etc used smoothbore guns.

Inferior tanks like Arjun uses rifled.

 

[gslv mk3]

Superior tanks like Merkava, Al Khalid-I, Leopards etc used smoothbore guns.
Inferior tanks like Arjun uses rifled.

But Arjuns main gun is inferior ( it seems) to even T90s.

Elaborate ?

 

[AMCA]

Smoothbore guns are superior to Rifled guns...

Superior tanks like Merkava, Al Khalid-I, Leopards etc used smoothbore guns.

Inferior tanks like Arjun uses rifled.

Lol.. That chinese MBT-2000 is a Joke...

 

[Mugwop]

Smoothbore guns last longer

 

[The_Sidewinder]

Elaborate ?

Rifled guns are usually more precise
(or atleast require less calibrations
and shell modifications to be
precise) yet the projectile has a
shorter range due to the higher
ammount of friction in the barrel (or
so I'm lead to believe)
Rifled tank guns are however not
able to fire sabot rounds which are
the primary anti-tank shells these
days
Smooth bores fire further but are
less precise, can however fire sabots
which is why they are the ones
being installed in most modern
tanks such as the Leo 2, Challenger 2, M1a2 etc.

HESH effectiveness against modern
composite armor (MBT level) is
indeed generally non-existant. OTOH
anything lighter (or MBT on non-
composite-armored parts) is a toast,
plush HESH/HE beats HEAT when,
say, a quick entrance is needed to a
building (esp. Afghan mud huts are
pretty resistant, being de facto
laminate construction - layers of dry
mud, straw... Great ballistic
protection vs. machineguns, even
against autocannons - and while
HEAT will do a practicable hole
usually, HE/HESH would do a bigger
one.
Plus of course even against modern
MBT frontally, a big chunk of HE is
gonna break something.

 

[AMCA]

Arjun is counting on Accuracy and We are somehow or the other giving it the capability to diversify the Choice of Rounds round it can fire.Unlike most rifled main guns the Arjun can fire a modified HEAT

 

[gslv mk3]

@Omega007

 

[The_Sidewinder]

Arjun is counting on Accuracy and We are somehow or the other giving it the capability to diversify the Choice of Rounds round it can fire.Unlike most rifled main guns the Arjun can fire a modified HEAT

the question is does Arjun's main round Has the power and punch to defeat modern ERA???

 

[narcon]

Rifled guns are usually more precise
(or atleast require less calibrations
and shell modifications to be
precise) yet the projectile has a
shorter range due to the higher
ammount of friction in the barrel (or
so I'm lead to believe)
Rifled tank guns are however not
able to fire sabot rounds which are
the primary anti-tank shells these
days
Smooth bores fire further but are
less precise, can however fire sabots
which is why they are the ones
being installed in most modern
tanks such as the Leo 2, Challenger 2, M1a2 etc.

HESH effectiveness against modern
composite armor (MBT level) is
indeed generally non-existant. OTOH
anything lighter (or MBT on non-
composite-armored parts) is a toast,
plush HESH/HE beats HEAT when,
say, a quick entrance is needed to a
building (esp. Afghan mud huts are
pretty resistant, being de facto
laminate construction - layers of dry
mud, straw... Great ballistic
protection vs. machineguns, even
against autocannons - and while
HEAT will do a practicable hole
usually, HE/HESH would do a bigger
one.
Plus of course even against modern
MBT frontally, a big chunk of HE is
gonna break something.

You are copying word by word from here.....
Even the topic itself!
Lol

Smooth Bore vs Rifled - Modern Vehicles Discussion - World of Tanks official forum

 

[AMCA]

the question is does Arjun's main round Has the power and punch to defeat modern ERA???

Arjun has 500 mm RHA penetration rounds and further bigger penetration ammo is being developed.

 

[The_Sidewinder]

You are copying word by word from here.....
Even the topic itself!
Lol

Smooth Bore vs Rifled - Modern Vehicles Discussion - World of Tanks official forum

View attachment 43739

i searched a lot to see whether Arjuns Rifle gun has any advantage over its rivals. I was going through the arjun mkii thread. There some members asserted that arjun doesnot quite posses the same punch as other modern mbts, the gun technology it uses is obsolate.
GslvMk3 asked me to elaborate so I went to the forum to copy main points as i dont have technological know how to elaborate it myself.
As I said My curiosity is certainly Arjun specific.

 

[narcon]

i searched a lot to see whether Arjuns Rifle gun has any advantage over its rivals. I was going through the arjun mkii thread. There some members asserted that arjun doesnot quite posses the same punch as other modern mbts, the gun technology it uses is obsolate.
GslvMk3 asked me to elaborate so I went to the forum to copy main points as i dont have technological know how to elaborate it myself.
As I said My curiosity is certainly Arjun specific.

You passed on other's material as your own...
You never quoted no one..
Plagiarism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ANPP]

Best way to compare them is that we see the difference between shotgun and rifles.
Due to rifle barrels projectile spin increases which tends to longer range with higher precision as well as greater punch as ammu doesn't lose velocity too much. No wonder world longest tank kill came from Chellanger1 when it hit enemy tank more than 5km. And even travelling 5km it had so much energy that it penetrate tank armour completly, although enemy tank was old Russian. Effect of surrounding is also negligible,which is prime consideration for smothbore guns.

While smoothbore doesn't have these qualities. But profit is that you can fire any thing from it, just like shot gun. We did see the work on Lahat missile to fire it from Arjun gun. Smooth guns doesn't have these problems. Because of advancement of ammunition advantage of rifled gun mitigated too much. Smoothguns provide all round capability to tank as there work doesn't ended on destroying tanks or fortifiesd positions.

Range which the profit of the rifled guns now mitigated too much as smooth barrel guns are also able to hit target upto 4km thanks to better round and electronics. As beyound this range earth curvature and physical obstacle limited the visibility.

Now considering Arjun, as it was stated too much time that it will be used in Rajsthan desert with the holding corps so rifled gun is good because of long range visibility and to sliced the PA armour, while neglecting the head ache of carrying many types of ammu.
But I want to smoothbore gun in Arjun as it will make it versatile and any ammu which is develop or imported for BHISMA can be used for Arjun. But rifle gun in Arjun heavy armour is also deadly especially for enemies.
So in morden contest smoothbore is better thanks to decades of development on ammu and lower maintanance headache. One more thing which I cannot prove is that rifle gums have longer service life compare to smoothbore.

 

[The_Sidewinder]

You passed on other's material as your own...
You never quoted no one..
Plagiarism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

my sincere appology on that. Unable to post the links from my device.

now if you dont mind, kindly enlighten me with your valuable input on thread topic.

Best way to compare them is that we see the difference between shotgun and rifles.
Due to rifle barrels projectile spin increases which tends to longer range with higher precision as well as greater punch as ammu doesn't lose velocity too much. No wonder world longest tank kill came from Chellanger1 when it hit enemy tank more than 5km. And even travelling 5km it had so much energy that it penetrate tank armour completly, although enemy tank was old Russian. Effect of surrounding is also negligible,which is prime consideration for smothbore guns.

While smoothbore doesn't have these qualities. But profit is that you can fire any thing from it, just like shot gun. We did see the work on Lahat missile to fire it from Arjun gun. Smooth guns doesn't have these problems. Because of advancement of ammunition advantage of rifled gun mitigated too much. Smoothguns provide all round capability to tank as there work doesn't ended on destroying tanks or fortifiesd positions.

Range which the profit of the rifled guns now mitigated too much as smooth barrel guns are also able to hit target upto 4km thanks to better round and electronics. As beyound this range earth curvature and physical obstacle limited the visibility.

Now considering Arjun, as it was stated too much time that it will be used in Rajsthan desert with the holding corps so rifled gun is good because of long range visibility and to sliced the PA armour, while neglecting the head ache of carrying many types of ammu.
But I want to smoothbore gun in Arjun as it will make it versatile and any ammu which is develop or imported for BHISMA can be used for Arjun. But rifle gun in Arjun heavy armour is also deadly especially for enemies.
So in morden contest smoothbore is better thanks to decades of development on ammu and lower maintanance headache. One more thing which I cannot prove is that rifle gums have longer service life compare to smoothbore.

Thank you for your valuable inputs. From your post can i assume that Arjun mkII has better kill range and first kill probability than its adverseries at long range sniping warfare. The same advantage western tanks specially Usa M1 Abrahams and Israeli Merkavas shown during recent tank battles with armies equipped with Russian MBTs.