Should Pakistan become a Presidential System ? And give up the Prime Minister System

[Falconless]

Under Presidential System

The Appointed Care Takers , of Region , handle all aspects of development for region
They have to report back to their President about their performance , and budget release to each member is easy process

Also what if the president is princess Panama or Billo Raani? Will you be okay with such people having this much unchecked power?

 

[Indos]

And the village sees no development because her votes don’t win you elections

Look like you are a follower of British mind set, every thing comes from Britain is the best. Look Indonesia political system is different with our former colonialist, Dutch. Even our Presidential system is also different with USA as we have multiple parties and we dont have powerful senators like them.

Here in Indonesia we give huge fund for Village, not perfect but we will try to perfect it by lowering the chance of corruption during the implementation :


A look at the village fund program four years on
22 February 2019


Infrastructure was a major theme of the second presidential debate, with Jokowi emphasising the progress made under his leadership through the development of toll roads, airports, irrigation, dams and other infrastructure such as broadband connectivity. In particular, one initiative pioneered by Jokowi has been the village fund program.

Since coming into effect in 2015, the program has been well received – polling at 85 percent satisfaction among Indonesian communities in 2018.

Based on Law 6/2014 (known as the Village Law), the village fund program requires that the central government allocate funding to individual provinces and districts, on top of other inter-governmental transfers. Each village is given autonomy to determine the use of this funding, which is then formally proposed in an expenditure plan.

This scheme is part of Jokowi’s vision to develop Indonesia “from the periphery”, by focusing on more marginalised regions of Indonesia. It aims to close the infrastructure gap between rural and urban areas, improve rural access to vital community services, and boost social welfare.

President of The International Fund for Agricultural Development (IFAD) Gilbert Houngbo believes that the program is proving to be a catalyst for rural transformation through the agriculture sector. Between 2015 and 2018, the funding scheme succeeded in the development of 191,600 kilometres of village roads, 58,000 irrigation units, 8,900 village markets, and up to 24,000 posyandu (pos pelayanan terpadu, which is a monthly clinic for children and pregnant women, providing vaccinations and nutritional supplements).

The amount of allocated funding has also increased over the four year period, reaching Rp 60 trillion (over AUD 6 billion) in 2018. According to the Minister of Villages, Disadvantaged Regions and Transmigration Eko Putro Sandjojo, the distribution of the funding has been a smooth, transparent process. He cites community involvement through monitoring and supervision as a key factor in this.

While there has been an enormous increase in rural development and infrastructure due to the funding scheme, the program has faced scrutiny, particularly from the Indonesia Corruption Watch (ICW). “There were a total of 170 cases of corruption in 2018 occuring in the districts [showing that] the village budget is a vulnerable sector”, said Wana Alamsyah of the ICW. In 2015, around 30 percent of corruption cases recorded in the village sector pertained to the village fund program. ICW researcher Egi Primayogha estimated that corruption over the four year period of the program amounted to a loss of Rp 40 billion (over AUD 4 million), highlighting that better governance is needed to guide the fund distribution process.

The program has also faced criticism from environmental advocates, who argue that better monitoring and planning processes need to be implemented to ensure that village spending aligns with national sustainability goals.

Moving forward, Jokowi hopes that the funding will be shifted more towards economically empowering communities through tourism. Using the villages of Umbul Ponggok in Klaten, Central Java, and Embung Nglanggeran in Gunung Kidul, Yogyakarta, as examples, he emphasised that innovation via the tourism sector, among others, could boost economic welfare in rural areas.

Supporting rural area communities through economic and social empowerment is crucial to the future of Indonesia, and will be a critical factor in the upcoming elections for the predominantly agrarian society.

A look at the village fund program four years on

Infrastructure was a major theme of the second presidential debate, with Jokowi emphasising the progress made under his leadership through

australiaindonesia.com

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Also what if the president is princess Panama or Billo Raani? Will you be okay with such people having this much unchecked power?

Unfortunately , when someone wins they can have the right to rule for 5 years provided they are not doing anything "illegal" against the country

This is the core concept , when you win , you win it all and do what you want for 5 years
The looser , sits in corner waits 5 year with almost no power


You get power over Federal / Province Level Full Control
Constitutional Change is still broken into separate system (But it involves people with extensive background in government who sit in this position , not someone who just walks out of village)

 

[AgnosticIndian]

Looks like the thread poster is looking for a China like system, not US system, as per they describe local administration. but China is China, largely homogeneous, with a historical party committed to the singular goal of furthering the interests of China and it's people. Pakistan has the trappings of ethnicities, languages, sects and extremism (unlike the atheist Confucian middle ways of Deng era). what worked there will not work here. Parliamentary system is best for diverse places like India and Pakistan. maybe Bangladesh with similar homogeneous structure can (and already is under BAL) profit from such a One Party rule, where the One Party thinks only of the nation rather than having to deal with ethnic or religious crazies.

 

[Falconless]

Look like you are a follower of British mind set, every thing comes from Britain is the best. Look Indonesia political system is different with our former colonialist, Dutch. Even our Presidential system is also different with USA as we have multiple parties and we dont have powerful senators like them.

Here in Indonesia we give huge fund for Village, not perfect but we will try to perfect it by lowering the chance of corruption during the implementation :


A look at the village fund program four years on
22 February 2019


Infrastructure was a major theme of the second presidential debate, with Jokowi emphasising the progress made under his leadership through the development of toll roads, airports, irrigation, dams and other infrastructure such as broadband connectivity. In particular, one initiative pioneered by Jokowi has been the village fund program.

Since coming into effect in 2015, the program has been well received – polling at 85 percent satisfaction among Indonesian communities in 2018.

Based on Law 6/2014 (known as the Village Law), the village fund program requires that the central government allocate funding to individual provinces and districts, on top of other inter-governmental transfers. Each village is given autonomy to determine the use of this funding, which is then formally proposed in an expenditure plan.

This scheme is part of Jokowi’s vision to develop Indonesia “from the periphery”, by focusing on more marginalised regions of Indonesia. It aims to close the infrastructure gap between rural and urban areas, improve rural access to vital community services, and boost social welfare.

President of The International Fund for Agricultural Development (IFAD) Gilbert Houngbo believes that the program is proving to be a catalyst for rural transformation through the agriculture sector. Between 2015 and 2018, the funding scheme succeeded in the development of 191,600 kilometres of village roads, 58,000 irrigation units, 8,900 village markets, and up to 24,000 posyandu (pos pelayanan terpadu, which is a monthly clinic for children and pregnant women, providing vaccinations and nutritional supplements).

The amount of allocated funding has also increased over the four year period, reaching Rp 60 trillion (over AUD 6 billion) in 2018. According to the Minister of Villages, Disadvantaged Regions and Transmigration Eko Putro Sandjojo, the distribution of the funding has been a smooth, transparent process. He cites community involvement through monitoring and supervision as a key factor in this.

While there has been an enormous increase in rural development and infrastructure due to the funding scheme, the program has faced scrutiny, particularly from the Indonesia Corruption Watch (ICW). “There were a total of 170 cases of corruption in 2018 occuring in the districts [showing that] the village budget is a vulnerable sector”, said Wana Alamsyah of the ICW. In 2015, around 30 percent of corruption cases recorded in the village sector pertained to the village fund program. ICW researcher Egi Primayogha estimated that corruption over the four year period of the program amounted to a loss of Rp 40 billion (over AUD 4 million), highlighting that better governance is needed to guide the fund distribution process.

The program has also faced criticism from environmental advocates, who argue that better monitoring and planning processes need to be implemented to ensure that village spending aligns with national sustainability goals.

Moving forward, Jokowi hopes that the funding will be shifted more towards economically empowering communities through tourism. Using the villages of Umbul Ponggok in Klaten, Central Java, and Embung Nglanggeran in Gunung Kidul, Yogyakarta, as examples, he emphasised that innovation via the tourism sector, among others, could boost economic welfare in rural areas.

Supporting rural area communities through economic and social empowerment is crucial to the future of Indonesia, and will be a critical factor in the upcoming elections for the predominantly agrarian society.

A look at the village fund program four years on

Infrastructure was a major theme of the second presidential debate, with Jokowi emphasising the progress made under his leadership through

australiaindonesia.com

Look like you are a follower of British mind set, every thing comes from Britain is the best. Look Indonesia political system is different with our former colonialist, Dutch. Even our Presidential system is also different with USA as we have multiple parties and we dont have powerful senators like them.

Here in Indonesia we give huge fund for Village, not perfect but we will try to perfect it by lowering the chance of corruption during the implementation :


A look at the village fund program four years on
22 February 2019


Infrastructure was a major theme of the second presidential debate, with Jokowi emphasising the progress made under his leadership through the development of toll roads, airports, irrigation, dams and other infrastructure such as broadband connectivity. In particular, one initiative pioneered by Jokowi has been the village fund program.

Since coming into effect in 2015, the program has been well received – polling at 85 percent satisfaction among Indonesian communities in 2018.

Based on Law 6/2014 (known as the Village Law), the village fund program requires that the central government allocate funding to individual provinces and districts, on top of other inter-governmental transfers. Each village is given autonomy to determine the use of this funding, which is then formally proposed in an expenditure plan.

This scheme is part of Jokowi’s vision to develop Indonesia “from the periphery”, by focusing on more marginalised regions of Indonesia. It aims to close the infrastructure gap between rural and urban areas, improve rural access to vital community services, and boost social welfare.

President of The International Fund for Agricultural Development (IFAD) Gilbert Houngbo believes that the program is proving to be a catalyst for rural transformation through the agriculture sector. Between 2015 and 2018, the funding scheme succeeded in the development of 191,600 kilometres of village roads, 58,000 irrigation units, 8,900 village markets, and up to 24,000 posyandu (pos pelayanan terpadu, which is a monthly clinic for children and pregnant women, providing vaccinations and nutritional supplements).

The amount of allocated funding has also increased over the four year period, reaching Rp 60 trillion (over AUD 6 billion) in 2018. According to the Minister of Villages, Disadvantaged Regions and Transmigration Eko Putro Sandjojo, the distribution of the funding has been a smooth, transparent process. He cites community involvement through monitoring and supervision as a key factor in this.

While there has been an enormous increase in rural development and infrastructure due to the funding scheme, the program has faced scrutiny, particularly from the Indonesia Corruption Watch (ICW). “There were a total of 170 cases of corruption in 2018 occuring in the districts [showing that] the village budget is a vulnerable sector”, said Wana Alamsyah of the ICW. In 2015, around 30 percent of corruption cases recorded in the village sector pertained to the village fund program. ICW researcher Egi Primayogha estimated that corruption over the four year period of the program amounted to a loss of Rp 40 billion (over AUD 4 million), highlighting that better governance is needed to guide the fund distribution process.

The program has also faced criticism from environmental advocates, who argue that better monitoring and planning processes need to be implemented to ensure that village spending aligns with national sustainability goals.

Moving forward, Jokowi hopes that the funding will be shifted more towards economically empowering communities through tourism. Using the villages of Umbul Ponggok in Klaten, Central Java, and Embung Nglanggeran in Gunung Kidul, Yogyakarta, as examples, he emphasised that innovation via the tourism sector, among others, could boost economic welfare in rural areas.

Supporting rural area communities through economic and social empowerment is crucial to the future of Indonesia, and will be a critical factor in the upcoming elections for the predominantly agrarian society.

A look at the village fund program four years on

Infrastructure was a major theme of the second presidential debate, with Jokowi emphasising the progress made under his leadership through

australiaindonesia.com

Good on you and your country, but the issues in Pakistan are different you can’t just copy paste models from one country to another.

the right to rule for 5 years provided they are not doing anything "illegal" against the country

How would they be held accountable, can the Parliament put them on trial and impeach them? Can the Supreme Court run cases against them?

 

[Indos]

Good on you and your country, but the issues in Pakistan are different you can’t just copy paste models from one country to another.

Yup, but you are copying Britain political system Today, similar like All Commonwealth Nations

 

[Falconless]

Yup, but you are copying Britain political system Today, similar like All Commonwealth Nations

By asking for municipal autonomy and constitutional checks and balances?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Good on you and your country, but the issues in Pakistan are different you can’t just copy paste models from one country to another.

How would they be held accountable, can the Parliament put them on trial and impeach them? Can the Supreme Court run cases against them?

I believe every President can be impeached in case it surfaces they have broken Serious law so there are checks and balances , for example a President can't appoint themselves for 10 years with out election



In Cricket Terminology

Imagine Two CricketTeams

Team A's Captain : (PRESIDENTIAL SYSTEM)
Captain Picks the best players for his team , from all over world who are Pakistani
Specially who are playing English County or Playing in Australian Leagues
He also is allowed to hire best fitness coaches for his players for 30 day camp
The captain organizes a training match with best international consultants to help train his team
Captain tells every player anyone who scores less then 25 runs in 2 games will be kicked out and replaced
Captain can speed dial a friendly match anytime he wants he has 100 % power / authority

Team B's Captain : (Parliamentarian / Prime Minister System)
[THIS IS HOW PAKISTAN FUNCTIONS NOW strangely the "real" cricket team also functions same way]
Captain is told he can select only 2 players , While 9 players will be selected by fan's voting
and players will be selected based on their village and fan's vote. Of course the selectors will also refine the final list as they like. The captain finds , the team has 2 players (Bilawal and Showbaz) who don't even talk to him but they are on his team. Now what? These 2 would cause obvious runouts. Of course you still find fat boy Azam Khan in the team some how.
Captain asks for a trainer for his team , board says , sorry you have to use Lala Fitness Coach on Roundabout
Captain tell players to perform then one village crickets says sorry I don't feel like it but you can't kick me out board can only do that I was on their good list
Captain tries to organize a practice match , with a country then board objects and says sorry you did not ask authorization!!! You can't interfere with our powers

Now imagine these two teams go head to head who will perform better?

 

[Rana4pak]

Pakistan needs hybrid system (name it what ever you want) in which both civilian n establishment have equal share along with local bodies body system,that is simple solution for next 30 years

 

[Falconless]

I believe every President can be impeached in case it surfaces they have broken Serious law so there are checks and balances , for example a President can't appoint themselves for 10 years with out election



In Cricket Terminology

Imagine Two Teams

Team A's Captain : Picks the best players for his team , from all over world who are Pakistani
Specially who are playing English County or Playing in Australian Leagues

Team B's Captain : Is told he can select 2 players , While 9 players will be selected by fan's voting
and players will be selected based on their village and fan's vote


Now imagine these two teams go head to head who will perform better?

Cricket and governance aren’t the same thing, how about you read this book called The origin of the political order as a brief introduction to political systems and then read the constituents of countries like Pakistan, the US, Indonesia, India, Japan and others to see why those countries and their systems exist.

Pakistan needs hybrid system (name it what ever you want) in which both civilian n establishment have equal share along with local bodies body system,that is simple solution for next 30 years

Yes political governance with the stability and integrity of the armed forces, basically what happens in countries with a functioning civil service.

 

[Indos]

By asking for municipal autonomy and constitutional checks and balances?

Parliamentary system will make your nation traps on your current elites, while in Presidential system you have much wider option among people that you consider the best to lead the nation.

Presidential system will also means choosing person that you think the best for Governor and Major, where from here potential President will likely come.

Party is forced to put popular person in charge in the Presidential system while Parliamentary system will be managed by Party elites.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I do recall at one time we attempted to setup Presidential System under then General Zia but he had a accidental death in air plane incident, because right after , we got stuck with Baby Benazir and Nawaz Sharif who played the country like a Ping Pong

The adoption of Presidential System was not fully done as it was done under extreme circumstances

However considering the stable environment now it is ideal time for a Switch in next elections to a Presidential System of course the regional "Eilites like PPP would oppose this treat to their way of life or control over money"

 

[touela]

Where does the establishment stands in a presidential system ?

 

[Adecypher]

YES

 

[Mr.Green]

Nice debate. I am also for Presidential system. But the present Public-Private Partnership system in which both the partners are mega corrupt will surely result in the collapse of the economics system soon and loss of Nuclear Power. The period where we had a mighty good time due to participation in Foreign Wars and free and easy loans is over. The economic system cannot sustain extremely high lifestyle of the ruling clans and groups.