Should Pak learn from the past vis-a-vis Afghanistan?

[SkyWolf]

Now that Afghan theater is controlled by a sort-of-an-ally, should we revert to our past behavior?

ie. giving refuge to militant organizations, using talib to fight in Kashmir?

This brings terrible disrepute to our country in the world. Often these militants turn against the state or get into stupid sectarian rivalries.

I believe this policy has been terribly ineffective and self-defeating.

Instead - we should focus on trying to convince the Taliban to soften their stance and to allow railroads, highways to connect central Asia with cpec and of course single out India along with their broken akhand bharat dreams.

now with Iran willing to work with Taliban, china-Iran investment, pipelines from Russia -- this is a tremendous opportunity to make Pakistan an international hub for commerce instead of terrorism. Cant be done with bombs going off in every city and town.

rather than focusing on Kashmir, we should secure our western border, take care of BLA and TTP. We need peace and order.

I am afraid the other approach will simply get us on FATF blacklist, EU/US shitlists.

I wish we could be economically strategic for a mere second.

 

[Silverblaze]

There were large scale massacres in Kashmir in the late 80s and early 90s. Pakistan being a weaker state militarily had no option but to support groups to offer resistance. We may not agree but this was the situation.

This new doctrine of so called geo economics seems to look the other way and ignore kashmiri bloodshed or it could also be that Pakistan wants to build national power to readjust the balance of power vis a vis india as once advised by Zhou Enli. But frankly I dont see any step towards that so far.

For now, Pakistan must focus on Afghanistan's state building process by assisting Talis.

 

[Dual Wielder]

Even if we gave our liberated side of Kashmir to the Nazi Bhartis to rape and plunder, they still wouldn't leave Pakistan alone in peace, they want to break Pakistan in pieces and ensure it's in constant anarchy (they have made that clear by supporting terrorism in east Pakistan, Sindh, Baluchistan and KPK), same with their handlers US/EU countries as with their one sided sanctions whilst turning a blind eye on India's nefarious agenda , both of these groups see the mere existence of Pakistan a threat, perhaps You were sleeping these past 50+ years? The constant appeasement policy has brought us nothing but despair, how many more 'inches' are You going to give?

Also since was discarding Kashmir a requisite for increasing our trade with central states? that has always been the goal.. lets not get ahead of ourselves and shoot our self on the face.

Stupid thread.

 

[Adecypher]

This thread is a “nice try” for Pakistan to become toothless tigers w.r.t ones who are committing human rights violations for last 50 or so years … keep trying won’t happen.

 

[SkyWolf]

Even if we gave our liberated side of Kashmir to the Nazi Bhartis to rape and plunder, they still wouldn't leave Pakistan alone in peace, they want to break Pakistan in pieces and ensure it's in constant anarchy (they have made that clear by supporting terrorism in east Pakistan, Sindh, Baluchistan and KPK), same with their handlers US/EU countries as with their one sided sanctions whilst turning a blind eye on India's nefarious agenda , both of these groups see the mere existence of Pakistan a threat, perhaps You were sleeping these past 50+ years? The constant appeasement policy has brought us nothing but despair, how many more 'inches' are You going to give?

Also since was discarding Kashmir a requisite for increasing our trade with central states? that has always been the goal.. lets not get ahead of ourselves and shoot our self on the face.

Stupid thread.

Are you actually advocating that Pakistan host militant organizations as a state policy? I get the emotive Kashmir issue but this is not very sound thinking. I am not saying discard Kashmir, I am saying discard the militancy culture and state support of terrorist non-state actors.

Militancy destroys tourism, foreign direct investment, commerce and just destabilizes our country. It creates fissures in society and enflames ethnic rivalries. Before long - our so-called assets turn on us and the bloodletting consumes all of Pakistan.

If we don't improve our economy, India's military expenditure will be more than our entire GDP.

We cannot win Kashmir with our regulars so wait for a better day. Focus instead on BLA, TTP.
To readily allow LeJ, JeM and all these other acronymed assholes is a recipe for disaster.

Unbridled Emotions are the reason for our present state.

 

[VCheng]

Now that Afghan theater is controlled by a sort-of-an-ally, should we revert to our past behavior?

ie. giving refuge to militant organizations, using talib to fight in Kashmir?

This brings terrible disrepute to our country in the world. Often these militants turn against the state or get into stupid sectarian rivalries.

I believe this policy has been terribly ineffective and self-defeating.

Instead - we should focus on trying to convince the Taliban to soften their stance and to allow railroads, highways to connect central Asia with cpec and of course single out India along with their broken akhand bharat dreams.

now with Iran willing to work with Taliban, china-Iran investment, pipelines from Russia -- this is a tremendous opportunity to make Pakistan an international hub for commerce instead of terrorism. Cant be done with bombs going off in every city and town.

rather than focusing on Kashmir, we should secure our western border, take care of BLA and TTP. We need peace and order.

I am afraid the other approach will simply get us on FATF blacklist, EU/US shitlists.

I wish we could be economically strategic for a mere second.

Pakistan must do whatever it takes to serve its own national interests. That is all that matters.

 

[SkyWolf]

This thread is a “nice try” for Pakistan to become toothless tigers w.r.t ones who are committing human rights violations for last 50 or so years … keep trying won’t happen.

meri zindagi - it is easy to be keyboard warrior. in the modern day - economy and national wealth determines power and influence. that is why kashmir/palestine is a non-issue for the world but kuwait was "liberated". the sooner you understand realpolitik the better.

we will be better equipped to deal with MC bharatis.

 

[K_Bin_W]

Pakistan must do whatever it takes to serve its own national interests. That is all that matters.

I think you nailed it rest is all noise....

 

[Varunastra]

A Pakistani keeping emotions aside wrt Kashmir issue, now that's something you don't see everyday.

 

[El Sidd]

A Pakistani keeping emotions aside wrt Kashmir issue, now that's something you don't see everyday.

Indian peace spoiling in Afghanistan displaced them.

Kashmir is just everywhere

 

[Maula Jatt]

Bigger question is should we accept the loc itself?

I can see Pak accepting Ladakh and Jammu but Kashmir is the tricky part

Second more important part is

If we accept it can things go atleast nuetral 10 years after that? - cause I mean all of thier neighbors with no border issues hate em, so there's something wrong with them too

So I don't think a good relationship is possible cause if it was, people to people relationship with thier nieghborhood would have been much better

but a better relationship than we currently have is possible after accepting the loc

 

[SkyWolf]

A Pakistani keeping emotions aside wrt Kashmir issue, now that's something you don't see everyday.

It is an emotive subject. Those are our blood relatives in kashmir you torture, rape, kill and suppress. I am talking about our overarching national strategy with the eventual aim to liberate kashmir.

Eat $hit and Di.

 

[Varunastra]

Bigger question is should we accept the loc itself?

I can see Pak accepting Ladakh and Jammu but Kashmir is the tricky part

Second more important part is

If we accept it can things go atleast nuetral 10 years after that? - cause I mean all of thier neighbors with no border issues hate em, so there's something wrong with them too

So I don't think a good relationship is possible cause if it was, people to people relationship with thier nieghborhood would have been much better

but a better relationship than we currently have is possible after accepting the loc

Smaller nations around a larger nation typically tend to dislike the larger nation. I think it is called big brother syndrome in geopolitics and can be seen in multiple places around the world. Though what India and Pakistan have is at whole another level and solving it will definitely make relations better. Our rivalry though will probably never go and that is not necessarily a bad thing if applied in the right avenues.

It is an emotive subject. Those are our blood relatives in kashmir you torture, rape, kill and suppress. I am talking about our overarching national strategy with the eventual aim to liberate kashmir.

Eat $hit and Di.

Your eventual aim takes you back to stone age, is that really what you want? You are pointing to the correct direction, stop terror funding and focus on economy, curbing internal insurgencies, if we see no threat from Pakistan we can definitely have better relations and prosper together solving most of our issues. Go for taking Kashmir and it's all for naught.

 

[Adecypher]

meri zindagi - it is easy to be keyboard warrior. in the modern day - economy and national wealth determines power and influence. that is why kashmir/palestine is a non-issue for the world but kuwait was "liberated". the sooner you understand realpolitik the better.

we will be better equipped to deal with MC bharatis.

meri jaan - the same Taliban which were considered a rag tag outfit with no international credibility in the eyes of west is now so important that a majority is lineup to recognize them ... that tells you that IF you cannot trade-off ON your principles (does not matter what your economical situation is) and trust Allah SWT you will prevail ... now look at India with "deep pockets" have lost so miserably ... so the bottomline is TRUST Allah SWT and take strong stand for the weak and oppressed ... Insha Allah Kashmir is next.

 

[SkyWolf]

meri jaan - the same Taliban which were considered a rag tag outfit with no international credibility in the eyes of west is now so important that a majority is lineup to recognize them ... that tells you that IF you cannot trade-off ON your principles (does not matter what your economical situation is) and trust Allah SWT you will prevail ... now look at India with "deep pockets" have lost so miserably ... so the bottomline is TRUST Allah SWT and take strong stand for the weak and oppressed ... Insha Allah Kashmir is next.

That's a good point except Kashmiris can't fight like the Afghans. I trust Allah but as the old arabian proverb says "Trust in Allah but tie your camel".
I don't know your age but after the soviet withdrawal I saw Karachi deteriorate with drugs and klashnikov culture in the 1980s. I do not want that to happen again. Mind you that was the last time, our GDP% and per capita income was higher than Gangudesh.

Your eventual aim takes you back to stone age, is that really what you want? You are pointing to the correct direction, stop terror funding and focus on economy, curbing internal insurgencies, if we see no threat from Pakistan we can definitely have better relations and prosper together solving most of our issues. Go for taking Kashmir and it's all for naught.

How about you stop state-terrorism in Kashmir? Read HRW and AMINTL reports to point yourself in the right direction.

Why do you guys have such a massive ego? Who says we want to have better relations with you or prosper with you? I swear you guys have the highest ego per unit of accomplishment.

After Kashmir valley (not even Ladakh) - we want absolutely nothing to do with you. Prosper by yourself.