Settle Kashmir and Get the Reward!!!

[binzaman]

These fascists’ Hindus are leading the whole region into confrontation. The politics in India is always based upon religion and faith, yet its secular India. I don’t know when the general Indian will realize the price they are paying in Siachen and Kashmir? India and Pakistan both fought 4 wars. Never India nor Pakistan can occupy or destroy each other.

Indian Casualties In Kashmir:
As an estimate 200-500 Army personal killed each year in Kashmir alone.

Indian Casualties in Siachen:
According to global security till 1997 more than 2000 indian solders lost their lives in siachen alone.

As an estimate on every fourth day one Pakistani solder and on every other day one Indian solders is losing his life on siachen.

Financial Aspects:
India alone spent 100 Billion Rs. So far, while her half of population living under the poverty line.

That’s what Kashmir and Siachen costing India and still they want to open more fronts.

If India settles the issues of Kashmir according to the will of Kashmiri people the future of whole region will be changed. Here I am saying Kashmir according to Kashmiries will. And there should not be any doubted on it as we all Indian and pakistanies get indepence on the same formula.

The benefits:

 No more Heavy Defense Budgets
 Smaller and batter army
 More money available to reduce poverty and hunger in both countries
 Together both the nation can rock the world.
 Peace and stability in the Region
 No more RSS, LeT, Hizbul Mujaheedin, SVP etc
 No more terror attacks like happened in Mumbai etc

 

[ahmeddsid]

Look Kashmir sure is taking a toll on our national resources, and India and Pakistan are better off resolving it. But Let me tell you that Defence Budget in India wont come down, because India is not threatened by Pakistan Mostly, Its China which India is keen to match, especially after the debacle in 62. Besides that, India has Global Ambitions, for that good defense and offensive military capability is necessary.

One more thing, Do you think that by Solving Kashmir, the Let, RSS etc will go away?? No way, they will create other similar problems and its in their interest that it doesnt get solved. Only we, the Common people can solve this by reforming ourselves before we ask for Change!

 

[Zaheerkhan]

Just not done... Terrorists are not looking for reasons to spread gloom and death, they are looking for excuses. It would be very stupid to think that terror will end if Kashmir is given away to a third country. As long as the budget is concerned,

In The budget 2008, there was a massive loan waiver of INR60,000 crore, to all poor farmers who had taken loans.

The Agricultural and infrastructure development fund was alloted a massive Rs.200,000 crores. Double the total budget allotment for defence.

3 new IITs (AP, Bihar and Rajasthan)
3 new IIScs (Bhopal and Trivendram)
2 new SPAs (School of Planning n Arch)
16 new central universities
and thousands of new Sarvodaya Primary education schools with free education to all girls.


Clearly, the Siachan expenditure is peanuts when compared to the others. We can clearly afford it.

 

[binzaman]

Dear Brothers!

Its your perception that terror will not end in the region after the settlement of Kashmir either as a free nation or emerging into Pakistan.
Ever you think why Mujahideens (for you militants) cross the LOC? for what cause?
Most of the indian think that they are brain washed poor guys who mostly caught into the jihadies hands. But in actual the ground realities are totally different. As you both seem to be Muslim by name so it is much easier for me to tell you that its belong to Muslim belief that If one Muslim is in trouble than its duty of another Muslim to help him.
According to Human rights Watch So far their are 82,946 innocent muslim died in Kashmir by Indian forces. Thats what create trouble for muslims living in Pakistan. Have you ever heared about any casualties in Pakistani held Kashmir???

"In The budget 2008, there was a massive loan waiver of INR60,000 crore, to all poor farmers who had taken loans. "

But Brother i still read daily suicidal cases of formers committing suicide in groups due to heavy interest on loans etc. Anyhow the poverty and hunger issues are still there.

India can't become even a regional power when there are bilateral issues there

 

[ahmeddsid]

Dear Brothers!

Its your perception that terror will not end in the region after the settlement of Kashmir either as a free nation or emerging into Pakistan.
Ever you think why Mujahideens (for you militants) cross the LOC? for what cause?
Most of the indian think that they are brain washed poor guys who mostly caught into the jihadies hands. But in actual the ground realities are totally different. As you both seem to be Muslim by name so it is much easier for me to tell you that its belong to Muslim belief that If one Muslim is in trouble than its duty of another Muslim to help him.
According to Human rights Watch So far their are 82,946 innocent muslim died in Kashmir by Indian forces. Thats what create trouble for muslims living in Pakistan. Have you ever heared about any casualties in Pakistani held Kashmir???

"In The budget 2008, there was a massive loan waiver of INR60,000 crore, to all poor farmers who had taken loans. "

But Brother i still read daily suicidal cases of formers committing suicide in groups due to heavy interest on loans etc. Anyhow the poverty and hunger issues are still there.

India can't become even a regional power when there are bilateral issues there

Yes When one Muslim is In trouble We all should stick up, But I guess it ended with the Sahabas. Now a days who cares for anyone? Gaza is blown up to pieces, where are the Mujahideens? I dont see them in Israel. Even if they try to do something In Israel they will get blown up first. These Terrorists play with India coz its something of a Game for them and Yes Indians are soft by nature. Look at Afzal Guru, he is not hanged uptil now! Now he Wants Advani to be PM so that he can die! People Like him Thrive on Hindu Fanaticism, and One terror breeds another terrorist.

What about Balochistan?? Arent they Muslims? Why is your army operating there? Isnt it Muslim blood being spilled? Isnt Human rights being violated there?

 

[roopesh]

If one Muslim is in trouble than its duty of another Muslim to help him. According to Human rights Watch So far their are 82,946 innocent muslim died in Kashmir by Indian forces. Thats what create trouble for muslims living in Pakistan. Have you ever heared about any casualties in Pakistani held Kashmir??? "In The budget 2008, there was a massive loan waiver of INR60,000 crore, to all poor farmers who had taken loans.

The land kashmir is not the major issue with India Binazaman. See your view and compare with Indian politics. India is a country with Major Hindu population with muslims. Communal violation is very easy thing to do. You know how govt and police struggles in every state when communal violation happen? Its complex man. Ppl are living with maximum co-operation. We cant afford any other national muslim to help our muslims. Bcoz its a balance. if the fight happens ppl should cool down both the religion compramise them and again live here. We cant afford you within. As simple as that. We no need of sympathy here. Pls understand. If u assume ppl have real love on pakistan its not real. They love to be here. If u dont believe see what happens if pakistan declares free citizenship to inidan muslims? U can barely count the ppl in number.

And can u give explanation for terrors activities in pak. Dont say RAW. Muslims are not terrors. But terrors might be a muslim he dont care for another muslim. He kill anyone. So we cant compramise with terrors assuming they will go away after kashmir.

 

[binzaman]

I think we are deviating from the real debate but let me elaborate if i can make you understand

1- For you blouch ppl are running a freedom movement (according to Indian media it look like so)
But its in the dera bughti area (one small district of Baluchistan )where the bugti tribe resides, also its due to the killing of nawab akbar khan buggti. so if you want to call it a freedom movement then its up to you but the ground realities are totally different from that image which you have in ur mind.

2- You both are giving me a very pleasant picture of a secular India. But fortunately i didn't forget Gujrat Massacre and the burning of innocent Muslims.
I still can tell you about whats happening in Orrisa
I can tell you about what happend in 1984 in Punjab.
Also i can tell you who are the most effected communities from POTA Laws....
There are many thing in secular India which neglect the picture you are drawing here for India. But i want to stick with the topic.

Whats going on in Gaza is another story. and how Egypt is stopping mujahideens at Rafah Crossing is also another story.

Furthermore, ISLAM was not ended after Sahaba. Its we who limit things for our personal pleasures.

 

[binzaman]

I think we are deviating from the real debate but let me elaborate if i can make you understand

1- For you blouch ppl are running a freedom movement (according to Indian media it look like so)
But its in the dera bughti area (one small district of Baluchistan )where the bugti tribe resides, also its due to the killing of nawab akbar khan buggti. so if you want to call it a freedom movement then its up to you but the ground realities are totally different from that image which you have in ur mind.

2- You both are giving me a very pleasant picture of a secular India. But fortunately i didn't forget Gujrat Massacre and the burning of innocent Muslims.
I still can tell you about whats happening in Orrisa
I can tell you about what happend in 1984 in Punjab.
Also i can tell you who are the most effected communities from POTA Laws....
There are many thing in secular India which neglect the picture you are drawing here for India. But i want to stick with the topic.

Whats going on in Gaza is another story. and how Egypt is stopping mujahideens at Rafah Crossing is also another story.

Furthermore, ISLAM was not ended after Sahaba. Its we who limit things for our personal pleasures.

 

[Zaheerkhan]

I think we are deviating from the real debate but let me elaborate if i can make you understand

1- For you blouch ppl are running a freedom movement (according to Indian media it look like so)
But its in the dera bughti area (one small district of Baluchistan )where the bugti tribe resides, also its due to the killing of nawab akbar khan buggti. so if you want to call it a freedom movement then its up to you but the ground realities are totally different from that image which you have in ur mind.

2- You both are giving me a very pleasant picture of a secular India. But fortunately i didn't forget Gujrat Massacre and the burning of innocent Muslims.
I still can tell you about whats happening in Orrisa
I can tell you about what happend in 1984 in Punjab.
Also i can tell you who are the most effected communities from POTA Laws....
There are many thing in secular India which neglect the picture you are drawing here for India. But i want to stick with the topic.

Whats going on in Gaza is another story. and how Egypt is stopping mujahideens at Rafah Crossing is also another story.

Furthermore, ISLAM was not ended after Sahaba. Its we who limit things for our personal pleasures.

Balochistan and Kashmir is a very similar cases. Military action was initiated by Pakistan and India on Kashmir and Pakistan had later invaded Baloch territory in 1948. There is a regular election held in Kashmir, and the choice of the people is respected. Even the seperateists can boost their credibility by contesting elections,winning and later refusing to co-operate or even recognise New Delhi. But, their fear is that if they lose the elections, where will they hide the face.??

Secular India is un-doubtedly dynamic. No country in the world is perfect, we only need to strive to make it better. No-doubt Gujrat was a mistake, but, we have learnt our lessons. There is provisions for every movement and struggle in India. There is room for Radicals, for leftists, for religious, for communists. There is a room for everybody to carry-out representations and propagating their beliefs. But, there is no place for the people who try to enforce their beliefs,with the force of a gun.

The terrorists do-not deserve the comforts and systems of the free-world. They have to be dealt in the most merciless ways possible.They are no-bodies friends.

 

[rajk20002002]

These fascists’ Hindus are leading the whole region into confrontation. The politics in India is always based upon religion and faith, yet its secular India. I don’t know when the general Indian will realize the price they are paying in Siachen and Kashmir? India and Pakistan both fought 4 wars. Never India nor Pakistan can occupy or destroy each other.

Indian Casualties In Kashmir:
As an estimate 200-500 Army personal killed each year in Kashmir alone.

Indian Casualties in Siachen:
According to global security till 1997 more than 2000 indian solders lost their lives in siachen alone.

As an estimate on every fourth day one Pakistani solder and on every other day one Indian solders is losing his life on siachen.

Financial Aspects:
India alone spent 100 Billion Rs. So far, while her half of population living under the poverty line.

That’s what Kashmir and Siachen costing India and still they want to open more fronts.

If India settles the issues of Kashmir according to the will of Kashmiri people the future of whole region will be changed. Here I am saying Kashmir according to Kashmiries will. And there should not be any doubted on it as we all Indian and pakistanies get indepence on the same formula.

The benefits:

 No more Heavy Defense Budgets
 Smaller and batter army
 More money available to reduce poverty and hunger in both countries
 Together both the nation can rock the world.
 Peace and stability in the Region
 No more RSS, LeT, Hizbul Mujaheedin, SVP etc
 No more terror attacks like happened in Mumbai etc

How about if if you do the same in Balchustan to begin with and then in Sindh ? Was there a referndum in India when Pakistan was created ? Did British ask all Indians ? Don't live in make shift world. India does not beleive in nation states created based upon religion. Why can't Pakistan give up her agenda of looking at everything through Islam ? Things will be much better if that happens.

RK

 

[binzaman]

Can we stick to the Kashmir issue or should i place a separate thread on Sindh, Boluchistan, Punjab or NWFP and on sectarian issues????

 

[binzaman]

What make you call that sectarian ? Does Islam have sects? Ofcourse you can separate threads but that won't change our logics. We have a fundamental difference in our thinking and that will remain so as far as I can see. Neither of our countries are going to give up their respective positions and hence all this trouble. You think you are 100% right and so do we. You are willing to put everything at stake and so are we..

RK

So its the end of debate
But the kashmir issue will remain there, and Pakistan and the people of Pakistan will be there too for their support.

 

[roopesh]

First let me ask one question to pak frens for my better understanding. OK. Kashmir is a land with dispute. Both pakistan and India want that area.
Pakistan claiming that India is illtreating kashmir ppl there and ppl of kashmir wants to be in pakistan so it should come to pakistan as you care of kashmir muslim. is this correct???
How about Hindu kashmir ppl? Do pakistan interst in their welfare too...Did pakistan protested when they got killed....???

Next will pakistan offer free citizenship/employement etc facilites to kashmir ppl so if kashmir ppl fed up with india can move to pakistan and live there??? This ensures pakistan not looking for land but cares for ppl.

Second why did pakistan gave a big part of kashmir to China...is it to impress them? or is to increase tension in the area by brining them in. Do you support that?

kashmir is very important geological place. Loosing it is against interst of India. We have rivers there so that bilateral relation with pakistan can be maintained. Its closer to russia and by allowing kashmir to pakistan delhi would be in big danger. So no matter what ever ppl tell about kashmir it will be with india. We will try to help kashmir ppl as much we can. May be it will take 1-2 generations for complete peace. but no compramise on this.

 

[binzaman]

"Pakistan claiming that India is illtreating kashmir ppl there and ppl of kashmir wants to be in pakistan so it should come to pakistan as you care of kashmir muslim. is this correct???
How about Hindu kashmir ppl? Do pakistan interst in their welfare too...Did pakistan protested when they got killed....???"

First of all Pakistan is not interested in Kashmiri Land, If you have the chance to read the official statements of Pak govt. then you will get to know that PAKISTAN always said "Resolve the KASHMIR issue according to the will of People of Kashmir and under the UNO Resolutions"

Also it was India who took the Kashmir issue to United Nations and Nehro promised there for the solution of Kashmir according to will of People of Kashmir.

You asked why Pakistan Gave a large part to china?
Proof required here, as per my knowledge china gave Pakistan a large Part.

 

[binzaman]

"We know that. But then don't get upset if India gets more and more active in Balochistan and other parts. This is why I say that basic foundations of India-Pakistan relations are based upon complete mistrust. I am sure it will be like this till either of us or both of us get annihilated. Honestly I am not so much worried about this mistrust as this is part of our long history. At best I will worry only how best we can manage and learn to live with this. Unfortunately till now we don't know how to manage this and therefore there is a very high risk that some day we will end up annihilating each other. May be that is what Allah has created us for. Isn't it our duty to fulfil Allah's wish after all.. It won't be the first time that a great battle will take place in this part of world. It happened during Mahabharat period. I am almost certain that this will happen again. In Hindu mythology, what ever is created, has to be destroyed also.

RK"

Lets Hope for the best