Sending Pakistan to Mars

[VCheng]

I don't think so.

While it's true that religion is more visible in Pakistan than in secular countries, I don't believe that it occupies the thoughts of ordinary Pakistanis as much as is claimed.

Most ordinary people are far more focused on the mundane routine of daily life, as in any other country.

What you say about the ordinary people being preoccupied by their everyday lives is true, but the problem that I am referring to arises from the admixing of religion with affairs of the State by law. The rest of the mayhem follows from this aberrant foundation.

 

[Developereo]

What you say about the ordinary people being preoccupied by their everyday lives is true, but the problem that I am referring to arises from the admixing of religion with affairs of the State by law. The rest of the mayhem follows from this aberrant foundation.

I think we are mixing cause and effect.

The rise of religious madrassas is not the cause of the dysfunctional educational system; it is a consequence of it. These madrassas arose to fill in the vacuum left by the decrepit public school system.

The decay of the public school system. in turn, is merely one aspect of a systemic breakdown in governance which, as I mentioned, affects power generation, mass transit, law enforcement and all other areas of life.

 

[VCheng]

I think we are mixing cause and effect.

The rise of religious madrassas is not the cause of the dysfunctional educational system; it is a consequence of it. These madrassas arose to fill in the vacuum left by the decrepit public school system.

The decay of the public school system. in turn, is merely one aspect of a systemic breakdown in governance which, as I mentioned, affects power generation, mass transit, law enforcement and all other areas of life.

So it is your contention that what is said in the Objectives Resolution and all that derives from it has no role in the making of the present mess, Sir? I would suggest that it is the root cause.

 

[Developereo]

So it is your contention that what is said in the Objectives Resolution and all that derives from it has no role in the making of the present mess, Sir? I would suggest that it is the root cause.

That's precisely what I am saying, that religion is not the root cause of Pakistan's problems.

The Objectives Resolution is not responsible for the failure of power generation or mass transit or law enforcement or tax evasion or corruption or any myriad of ills plaguing the country.

While we may blame the Objectives Resolution for certain content in Pakistani textbooks, we can't blame it for the operational failures of the schooling system itself. That is purely a failure of governance.

We need to stop seeing everything through the prism of religion, and acknowledge that many of the core issues plaguing Pakistan are due to bad governance. The causes -- and solutions -- for bad governance in Pakistan are the same as everywhere else in the world..

There is no need to bring religion into every discussion since it only eclipses a host of other factors at play within Pakistan.

 

[trainer]

i hate indian army.

WHAT it has to do with current discussion.... You pakistanis are so obsessed with IA... give an introspection and may be you can find an answer.

 

[VCheng]

That's precisely what I am saying, that religion is not the root cause of Pakistan's problems.

The Objectives Resolution is not responsible for the failure of power generation or mass transit or law enforcement or tax evasion or corruption or any myriad of ills plaguing the country.

While we may blame the Objectives Resolution for certain content in Pakistani textbooks, we can't blame it for the operational failures of the schooling system itself. That is purely a failure of governance.

We need to stop seeing everything through the prism of religion, and acknowledge that many of the core issues plaguing Pakistan are due to bad governance. The causes -- and solutions -- for bad governance in Pakistan are the same as everywhere else in the world..

There is no need to bring religion into every discussion since it only eclipses a host of other factors at play within Pakistan.

Okay, before I respond to you Sir, so that I may understand your point of view better, please tell us what do you think are the root causes of these failures of governance?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I presently do not feel , we need to be on Mars , when we have matters to attend at home on earth

 

[Developereo]

Okay, before I respond to you Sir, so that I may understand your point of view better, please tell us what do you think are the root causes of these failures of governance?

The nexus between feudals, robber barons and military generals.

This nexus requires the general population to be easily controlled and not too rebellious (i.e. uneducated). Religion is merely a tool for this elite. If not religion, they can use ethnicity, linguistic differences or other factors to keep the population under control.

The middle (business) class has been drugged into a stupor by an ongoing income tax holiday, and the rich elite already have their plan B in foreign countries.

 

[The Great One]

I presently do not feel , we need to be on Mars , when we have matters to attend at home on earth

I presently do not feel that anybody feels that Pakistan can be on Mars either now or in the future.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

We will wait until there is oxygen on mars and some facilities there is no rush

Also we have all the images of Mars available for free from NASA

 

[VCheng]

The nexus between feudals, robber barons and military generals.

This nexus requires the general population to be easily controlled and not too rebellious (i.e. uneducated). Religion is merely a tool for this elite. If not religion, they can use ethnicity, linguistic differences or other factors to keep the population under control.

The middle (business) class has been drugged into a stupor by an ongoing income tax holiday, and the rich elite already have their plan B in foreign countries.

I take it that you can also see how it is impossible to analyze Pakistan's predicament without bringing religion into the discussion.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

The author is wrong, the phrase "Sputnik moment" implies that a space race exists between India and Pakistan, which is not the case.

 

[liall]

We will wait until there is oxygen on mars and some facilities there is no rush

Also we have all the images of Mars available for free from NASA

When India lands its astronauts on Mars in 30-40 years you can look at images from NASA

 

[Max Pain]

Dude seriously save your breath. Accept it with cold heart, you need to create a passion for all these in your country to take on civilian projects, you guys are so so Military minded. You need to create a whole new set of Education System , Good Industrial Base and ofcourse a New generation of Minds who are willing to take the hands of Pakistan and lead it into the age of 21st Century.

India is a black hole which no country on earth has been able to understand. With acute poverty issues, we still have managed to breach what was once denied to us and stand in a place where people Look upto us and say India is no longer a land of Snake Charmers. We have started to Grow with full Pace ahead.

and here we have another self proclaimed bragger of India, as far as us being military minded is concerned, to me that claim is too childish to even respond, perhaps that slur might work in irrational Pakistan India argument, as far as educational system and industrial base is concerned, like i said competent minds are here they just need to be exploited.

 

[Black Mamba1]

In the beginning , I want to say that I don't thing that India is a very advanced scientific nation. Lot of things need to be done. Our poverty is definitely a barrier for this, no doubt.

But when I think that after having so much wealth why Muslim world did not progress in Science and technology?

Before telling by analysis, I must say that I have no negatives about Islam or any other religion rather I respect them.

I think Muslim's belief that Koran is the last word for everything , makes religious Muslim community averse from finding new knowledge beyond Koran. If Koran is the ultimate knowledge then it is natural that seeking any knowledge which is not there in Koran is a simple waste of time. So Muslims respect their clerics who can explain knowledge depicted in Koran and not the scientists who try to teach them knowledge which is not in Koran.

Even if God told whatever written in Koran, it was told in a particular time and space. Koran was truly revolutionary in the time when it was created. But the world is ever changing and hence the knowledge too. As Koran is a constant, it is philosophically difficult to adapt with changing universe and changing body of knowledge. There must be some mechanism in Islam to handle this barrier. Mr. Abdus Salam probably belongs to a community which does not buy this theory fully.

If we think about India, content of Vedas were believed to be uttered by God (Apourusheya) and un changeable, Bramhins who knew Vadas were supreme in the society.

"In Hinduism, Apaurusheya (IAST: Apauruṣeya), Sanskrit, meaning "not the work of man", is used to describe the Vedas, the main scripture in Hinduism. This implies that the Vedas are not authored by human but were divine creation.Apaurusheya shabda ("words not created by mankind") is an extension of apaurusheya which refers to the Vedas."

Later 2000 years back, development of Nastik (Anti Veda) philosophy like Sankhya and Budhistm hit the bastion of old Hindu religion and a space for open and free thinking emerged. This followed a golden era of knowledge ie Gupta era when lot of epoch-making developments happened in all fields.

In Europe , till Churches were all powerful, there were no incentive for excelling in Science and Technology. Rather we all know what happened to great thinkers like Galileo , Bruno etc. They had to die just to tell that Earth is moving around the Sun!!! Once Church's power reduced, Europe excelled in science and technology.

My knowledge is limited ,so I am not claiming anything in support of above theory. It just came in my mind in the context of world history and development of Science and technology over last 2000 years. I have no desire to hurt any religious sentiment. Please forgive in case I unknowingly did that while telling my thought.

I have a similar theory on why ancient India was developed very much in Math, astrophysics, philosophy etc but not in Technology . I think there is a link with social and religious structure prevailing in that time is responsible for this too which I may explain later.