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Secret US and Afghanistan talks could see troops stay for decades

Paan Singh

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American and Afghan officials are locked in increasingly acrimonious secret talks about a long-term security agreement which is likely to see US troops, spies and air power based in the troubled country for decades.

Though not publicised, negotiations have been under way for more than a month to secure a strategic partnership agreement which would include an American presence beyond the end of 2014 – the agreed date for all 130,000 combat troops to leave — despite continuing public debate in Washington and among other members of the 49-nation coalition fighting in Afghanistan about the speed of the withdrawal.

American officials admit that although Hillary Clinton, the US secretary of state, recently said Washington did not want any "permanent" bases in Afghanistan, her phrasing allows a variety of possible arrangements.

"There are US troops in various countries for some considerable lengths of time which are not there permanently," a US official told the Guardian.

British troops, Nato officials say, will also remain in Afghanistan long past the end of 2014, largely in training or mentoring roles.

Although they will not be "combat troops" that does not mean they will not take part in combat. Mentors could regularly fight alongside Afghan troops, for example.

Senior Nato officials also predict that the insurgency in Afghanistan will continue after 2014.

There are at least five bases in Afghanistan which are likely candidates to house large contingents of American special forces, intelligence operatives, surveillance equipment and military hardware post-2014. In the heart of one of the most unstable regions in the world and close to the borders of Pakistan, Iran and China, as well as to central Asia and the Persian Gulf, the bases would be rare strategic assets.

News of the US-Afghan talks has sparked deep concern among powers in the region and beyond. Russia and India are understood to have made their concerns about a long-term US presence known to both Washington and Kabul. China, which has pursued a policy of strict non-intervention beyond economic affairs in Afghanistan, has also made its disquiet clear. During a recent visit, senior Pakistani officials were reported to have tried to convince their Afghan counterparts to look to China as a strategic partner, not the US.

American negotiators will arrive later this month in Kabul for a new round of talks. The Afghans rejected the Americans' first draft of a strategic partnership agreement in its entirety, preferring to draft their own proposal. This was submitted to Washington two weeks ago. The US draft was "vaguely formulated", one Afghan official told the Guardian.

Afghan negotiators are now preparing detailed annexes to their own proposal which lists specific demands.

The Afghans are playing a delicate game, however. President Hamid Karzai and senior officials see an enduring American presence and broader strategic relationship as essential, in part to protect Afghanistan from its neighbours.

"We are facing a common threat in international terrorist networks. They are not only a threat to Afghanistan but to the west. We want a partnership that brings regional countries together, not divides them," said Rangin Spanta, the Afghan national security adviser and the lead Afghan negotiator on the partnership.

Dr Ashraf Ghani, a former presidential candidate and one of the negotiators, said that, although Nato and the US consider a stable Afghanistan to be essential to their main strategic aim of disrupting and defeating al-Qaida, a "prosperous Afghanistan" was a lesser priority. "It is our goal, not necessarily theirs," he said.

Though Ghani stressed "consensus on core issues", big disagreements remain.

One is whether the Americans will equip an Afghan air force. Karzai is understood to have asked for fully capable modern combat jet aircraft. This has been ruled out by the Americans on grounds of cost and fear of destabilising the region.

Another is the question of US troops launching operations outside Afghanistan from bases in the country. From Afghanistan, American military power could easily be deployed into Iran or Pakistan post-2014. Helicopters took off from Afghanistan for the recent raid which killed Osama bin Laden.

"We will never allow Afghan soil to be used [for operations] against a third party," said Spanta, Afghanistan's national security adviser.

A third contentious issue is the legal basis on which troops might remain. Afghan officials are keen that any foreign forces in their country are subject to their laws. The Afghans also want to have ultimate authority over foreign troops' use and deployment.

"There should be no parallel decision-making structures ... All has to be in accordance with our sovereignty and constitution," Spanta said.

Nor do the two sides agree over the pace of negotiations. The US want to have agreement by early summer, before President Barack Obama's expected announcement on troop withdrawals. This is "simply not possible," the Afghan official said.

There are concerns too that concluding a strategic partnership agreement could also clash with efforts to find an inclusive political settlement to end the conflict with the Taliban. A "series of conversations" with senior insurgent figures are under way, one Afghan minister has told the Guardian.

A European diplomat in Kabul said: "It is difficult to imagine the Taliban being happy with US bases [in Afghanistan] for the foreseeable future."

Senior Nato officials argue that a permanent international military presence will demonstrate to insurgents that the west is not going to abandon Afghanistan and encourage them to talk rather than fight.

The Afghan-American negotiations come amid a scramble among regional powers to be positioned for what senior US officers are now describing as the "out years".

Mark Sedwill, the Nato senior civilian representative in Afghanistan, recently spoke of the threat of a "Great Game 3.0" in the region, referring to the bloody and destabilising conflict between Russia, Britain and others in south west Asia in the 19th century.

Afghanistan has a history of being exploited by — or playing off — major powers. This, Dr Ghani insisted, was not "a vision for the 21st century". Instead, he said, Afghanistan could become the "economic roundabout" of Asia.

Secret US and Afghanistan talks could see troops stay for decades | World news | The Guardian

:p:P:p:P:p:P:P
 
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This was bound to happen. Afghanistan was a cultivation ground meant for military bases of US and NATO. Who was telling that US is leaving "soon"? :woot:
 
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i am already ranting from one year in front of pakistanis that usa wont leave....but they still not getting this point:cry:
 
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Interesting, at one side Afghan government is talking about sovereignty and on other hand they are providing way for US military to stay.
 
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The main reasons for the US presence are simple and easy to understand:

1. Counter balance against China
2.Leverage over the energy rich CAR states
3.Strategic presence in case of an urge to intervene in the neighboring states
4.Finally bell Russia after a very decisive strategy.......

I know if I was in the same situation as the US i would do the same.......
 
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The main reasons for the US presence are simple and easy to understand:

1. Counter balance against China
2.Leverage over the energy rich CAR states
3.Strategic presence in case of an urge to intervene in the neighboring states
4.Finally bell Russia after a very decisive strategy.......

I know if I was in the same situation as the US i would do the same.......

Dont forget destabilizing Pakistan !
 
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there is no way, their economy cant afford it, and Pakistani ppl are tired too, so i dont think so, just my opinion.
 
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I would not have expect anything less from the U.S. ^^
 
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Its not easy to get troops stationed in a country, especially one like Afghanistan. In the end I think it won't bear any fruit if the other Nato members keep bailing.
 
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We won't stay in Afghanistan forever and the American people will have Obama's head if he does, we have Economic problems and there not going so well ,and Afghan-war and we could end up like how the Soviets ended up from Afghanistan.
 
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have they left any country
they've gone into?
When did they leave Guantanamo
Bay, Cuba?
When did they leave Okinawa,
Japan?
When did they leave Germany?
Iraq?
they haven't left... they're still there..
Technically, they won't be leaving anytime.
 
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This was bound to happen. Afghanistan was a cultivation ground meant for military bases of US and NATO. Who was telling that US is leaving "soon"? :woot:

Interesting, at one side Afghan government is talking about sovereignty and on other hand they are providing way for US military to stay.

Dear readers, conspiracy theories will not deter the Afghans who work tirelessly towards full self determination and a bright future. The US spends graciously to help Afghans provide the security that allows them to restore and rebuild what was destroyed under the Taliban regime. Does not this commitment ensure the continued rise of Afghanistan?

The time table for withdrawing our combat troops from Afghanistan, based on the needs of the Afghan people, is scheduled to begin in July 2011. As President Obama and Defense Secretary Gates previously stated, our withdrawl “…will be based on conditions on the ground but at the same time... we have to build a fire under them, frankly, to get them to do the kind of recruitment, retention, training… for their forces that allows us to make this transition.”

Our phased withdrawal from Iraq provides an excellent example of our commitment to a successful phased withdrawal from Afghanistan. Also, we do not want history to repeat itself as was the case in Afghanistan after Soviet Union’s defeat, when our complete withdrawal left a power vacuum in a country without strong security or governance. We remember and will not repeat history by leaving before Afghan security forces are well trained, well equipped and ready to defeat the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

Henceforth, it is equally important for a prosperous and secure Pakistan that the Taliban in Afghanistan are stopped from crossing the border; and vice versa. Our dedication to help the Afghan nation rebuild in sectors of defense, health, infrastructure, education will remain intact. Defense Secretary Gates assured that, “We're not just going to throw these guys (Afghan security officials) in the swimming pool and walk away.” To follow the analogy to its logical conclusion, the Afghans will, by the time we leave, be able to provide the kind of security necessary to defeat all enemies both internal and external.

And so forum readers, if we stay longer it is only to ensure that Afghanistan is stronger.

CDR Bill Speaks,
DET, United States Central Command
U.S. Central Command
 
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looks like pakistan and talibans have to take over the situation, this maybe acceptable to afghans, but pakistan, not at all, not a cent more

americans have to leave soon

in less than 2 yrs time we have elections coming up, and no way that NRO govt will form govt again
 
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^^^
The last sentence in post#13 says it all. USA is not about to leave Afghanistan and its people just like that out in the cold to face the vagaries of an uncertain future.
Ambassador Robert Blackwill had enunciated pretty much the same thing much earlier.
 
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