Savar Tragedy and Politics

[BDforever]

I have opened this thread for who loves to talk about Politics only tragic in moment. Talk here as much as you want...

 

[kobiraaz]

my english is weak. still it seems to me that you need to work on your english skill.

 

[kobiraaz]

by the way this is indeed a tragic moment. but this tragedy is the consequence of politics. rana was immune because of his position. this is why he was allowed to build this building ...

 

[CaPtAiN_pLaNeT]

by the way this is indeed a tragic moment. but this tragedy is the consequence of politics. rana was immune because of his position. this is why he was allowed to build this building ...

The building was built in between 2006-2008 if I am not wrong. Talk specific. No one need to be political, it is open secret most of the building that has been built inside and just outside Dhaka, infect all across Bangladesh are in violation of standard building code and has been built with different plan then what was submitted to RAJUK or other similar organization and by giving some percentage to the building inspectors.

What about the building that collapsed in Mohakhali during BNP time. Heard nothing happened to the owner... what is your opinion on that!!!

 

[eastwatch]

We should not talk politics in the building collapse threads. It is not that because Rana is an AL or a BNP thug, therefore, he or his design engineers and contractors built a weak building. It seems the building was constructed without putting enough engineering values to design and build a sound structure. It is actually our mindset that makes us mischievous and irresponsible to the core.

This starts from those who have codified the building rules or standards. They may not have minutely studied the internationally recognized codes and standards, but codified the local rules for designing a structure. Then comes the design engineer. In our culture, if this guy is a famous person because he attends a few TV talk shows, then everybody will run to him for the design.

Note, design is not actually the look of a structure, it more involves the strength of a structure or a building to withstand many vertical and lateral (horizontal) forces. It also involves how to improve the bearing capacity of soil or the piles, and many other things. I think, before Bangladesh truly develops its own codes, it should follow other internationally recognized ones. Irrational and irresponsible ego has no value in this field. We have to learn from others who already know.

 

[baajey]

We should not talk politics in the building collapse threads. It is not that because Rana is an AL or a BNP thug, therefore, he or his design engineers and contractors built a weak building. It seems the building was constructed without putting enough engineering values needed to design and build a sound structure. It is actually all of our mindset that makes us mischievous and irresponsible to the core.

This starts from those who have codified the building rules or standards. They may not have minutely studied the internationally recognized codes and standards, but codified the rules for designing a structure. Then comes the design engineer. In our culture, if this guy is a famous person because he attends a few TV talk shows, then everybody will run to him for the design.

Note, design is not actually the look of a structure, it more involves the strength of a structure or a building to withstand many vertical and lateral (horizontal) forces. It also involves how to know and then improve the bearing capacity of soil or the piles, and many other things. I think, before Bangladesh truly develops its own codes, it should follow other internationally recognized ones. National irresponsible ego has no value in this field.

which codes does BD follow ??? ACI ?? BS or euro ????

 

[eastwatch]

which codes does BD follow ??? ACI ?? BS or euro ????

I do not live in the country. So, I do not know which codes are followed. Bangladesh people have a very bad ego. So, this ego may prohibit them to follow American or British codes. Why should we follow the WHITEs or Christians, is the kind of ego. But, the country must have certain codes and standards, however weak these may be, that all of the related people should follow in unison. However, these must give equivalent results to the internationally accepted codes. Think of ACI and BS Codes. They contain different sets of formulas and assumptions, but at the end of design calculations both give almost the similar results. It means these are compatible with each other.

Another point is the work ethics. The owners have a knack for cheating himself by using less amount of cement than required. They also direct the contractor to make the dimensions of columns and beams smaller. Smaller dimensions will certainly face shear failures of the structure within a few years after construction. Rana Plaza looks like a shear filure, although not very sure.

By the way, are you an architect or a civil engineer?

 

[Lone]

It was entirely Rana's fault in a sense that, First he was allowed to build a 4 Floors building. He did that. After that He raised it to 8 floor building. Hence the accident. This is a direct consequence of greed and illegal power practice.

 

[baajey]

I do not live in the country. So, I do not know which codes are followed. Bangladesh people have a very bad ego. So, this ego may prohibit them to follow American or British codes. Why should we follow the WHITEs or Christians, is the kind of ego. But, the country must have certain codes and standards, however weak these may be, that all of the related people should follow in unison. However, these must give equivalent results to the internationally accepted codes. Think of ACI and BS Codes. They contain different sets of formulas and assumptions, but at the end of design calculations both give almost the similar results. It means these are compatible with each other.

Another point is the work ethics. The owners have a knack for cheating himself by using less amount of cement than required. They also direct the contractor to make the dimensions of columns and beams smaller. Smaller dimensions will certainly face shear failures of the structure within a few years after construction. Rana Plaza looks like a shear filure, although not very sure.

By the way, are you an architect or a civil engineer?

i m a civvie engr.
work ethics is a huge problem in the subcontinent. u know huge load factors are taken into consideration in design. the south asians manage to undo those factors and finally manage to bring down the building just by gravity. hell, if buildings were to be designed using no load factors, guess very few building would be standing in this place right now.

off topic :
i m in oil n gas sector. what do i need to do to immigrate to japan/singapore ? u design according to which codes? american or japanese

 

[eastwatch]

i m a civvie engr. i m in oil n gas sector. what do i need to do to immigrate to japan/singapore ? u design according to which codes? american or japanese

I worked on overseas projects. About 60% of my work involved the design of foundations (independent, raft/combined or piled) for light, medium and heavy machines as well as for stacks, oil tanks etc. Usually, the Owner of a project specifies the codes. So, it was US, British, DIN (German) and also NF (France) for overseas projects.

For designing Japanese domestic projects, a engineer has to follow JAS and JIS. But, he may also have to use certain Clauses of API (American Petroleum Institute) codes when the it is oil related structures.

The last project I did recently is a futuristic Maldives project that envisages the use of cold deep seawater, temperature between 5 to 7*C at -800m below the sea surface, to operate all the A/Cs, desalination plant, ice production plant, water bottling plant etc in that tourist country. For me, this time it is not really the design, but is a kind of technical feasibility study and reporting. However, the project is now on hold because of Maldives domestic politics.

Singapore may be a good place to seek job. In case of Japan, you may contact JGC Corporation, Chiyoda Engineering and Chemicals Co., Ltd., Toyo Engineering. Find out their detail information from the web sites. But, I wonder why do you use the word, civvie?

 

[BDforever]

my english is weak. still it seems to me that you need to work on your english skill.

correct me where i was wrong ..
@baajey As far i know , ISO 9000:2005 Quality management systems, ISO 9001 standards are used for buildings, do not much about it

 

[baajey]

I worked on overseas projects. About 60% of my work involved the design of foundations (independent, raft/combined or piled) for light, medium and heavy machines as well as for stacks, oil tanks etc. Usually, the Owner of a project specifies the codes. So, it was US, British, DIN (German) and also NF (France) for overseas projects.

The last project I did recently is a futuristic Maldives project that envisages the use of cold deep seawater, at 5 to 7*C from below -800m the sea surface, to operate all the A/Cs, freezing plant, water bottling plant etc. in that tourist country. For me,this time it is not really the design, but is a kind of technical feasibility study and reporting. However, the project is now on hold because of Maldives domestic politics.[/QUOTE]
u are the MAN
boss, aapni to guru manush....nice to make acquaintance with you, sir.

Singapore may be a good place to seek job. In case of Japan, you may contact JGC Corporation, Chiyoda Engineering and Chemicals Co., Ltd., Toyo Engineering. Find out their detail information from the web sites. But, I wonder why do you use the word, civvie?

yup one of my frens is trying to get settled there.
and civvie is nothing , no difference than civil/structural.....just felt like using it that way.

correct me where i was wrong ..
@baajey As far i know , ISO 9000:2005 Quality management systems, ISO 9001 standards are used for buildings, do not much about it

if i m not wrong u have got that for standardization of practices related to the work u/ur company do/does. I was asking @eastwatch about the design/loading codes for structural/civil design.
thanks anyways bro.

 

[BDforever]

if i m not wrong u have got that for standardization of practices related to the work u/ur company do/does. I was asking @eastwatch about the design/loading codes for structural/civil design.
thanks anyways bro.

I am a student

 

[baajey]

I am a student

nice man.....enjoy the best days of ur life

 

[eastwatch]

i m a civvie engr.
work ethics is a huge problem in the subcontinent. u know huge load factors are taken into consideration in design. the south asians manage to undo those factors and finally manage to bring down the building just by gravity. hell, if buildings were to be designed using no load factors, guess very few building would be standing in this place right now.

Only about four decades ago Factor of Safety (FS) was used in design calculation. FS was decided by the Owner of a project, although using 1.5 was common. So, if the destabilizing load is, say, 100 ton and the resistance strength of a structure is 150 ton, then it satisfies the FS criteria of 1.5. But, the major western countries revised the procedure in a way that one factor is now multiplied to one type of loading, and another factor may be multiplied to another type of loading at the start of design.

Even, the factor for a temporary loading may be 1.2 in some cases. Factors are not a constant 1.5 as it is in case of FS. These factors have been duly specified in the major codes. However, I am surprised to read from your post that the Indian design engineers have found some ways to manipulate these factors. This is an absolute NO.

If such things can happen in India, you can imagine what is then happening in the design procedure in Bangladesh. I think, no real design procedure is being followed in BD. It is a kind of rules of thumb. "Kanun kya Hai? Kanun Hamara Moch ka Tau par Hain."